Author Topic: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1  (Read 35720 times)

Offline whaddaiknow

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2010, 11:28:18 am »
What I find amusing is that in today's review of the Audi R8 spider the word sport is only mentioned ONCE in relation to the sport mode for the transmission.

I guess when you know you drive a car that is both a capable handler and fun to drive, and is clearly in the sports car territory, you don't need to use the words "sporty" or "sports" to describe it.

But when it comes to the subject of this review, the manufacturer wants to tell you that it's a sporty car which apparently it is not. Sounds like 2 completely different worlds and target audiences:

1) financially successful people who know and don't need to be told (less than 1%)
2) another group (20%?) who manufacturers believe need to be told a lie so they feel better about themselves when they part with their hard earned cash and sign their loan.

I love capitalism :)

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2010, 11:48:50 am »
There is going to be a lot of criticism of the CR-Z  on the basis it is not a rubber burner.  But it is probably about as sporty as cars are going to be once new fuel efficiency standards are enacted.  And certainly enough for most people now.

It is going to get a lot of criticism because it is an incredibly poor execution of a weak idea. Sporty-Hybrid is an oxymoron. They are at cross purposes. Sticky tires for performance will eat into fuel economy, low rollling resistance tires will kill handling.  The weight of the Hybrid is negative for both acceleration and handling. Sporty and Hybrid are near mutually exclusive. CR-Z doesn't change that.


Comparing to what is out there:

CRZ somehow manages to be both slower and get less MPG than a big Ford Fusion hybrid.

Hondas own Fit is a better drivers car, faster, better handling, more practical, you can see out the back and it costs thousands less.

VW Golf TDI will get you similar performance, better fuel economy, and just better car all around.



What Honda should have done for the two models:

1: Is make a sporty non-hybrid model with a 6spd MT, K18/20 engine. It would have been faster/lighter/cheaper and still achieved pretty good MPG.
2: The hybrid model with the same 1.3L/CVT as insight that would have been getting comparable fuel economy to other Hybrids.

Then there would be a clear model for enthusiasts and eco-fans, that were each very good at their mission. Instead neither CRZ is good at anything, it is designed by committee mediocrity defined. 

 :iagree:

I want a new CRX dammit!
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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2010, 02:39:40 pm »
It is going to get a lot of criticism because it is an incredibly poor execution of a weak idea. Sporty-Hybrid is an oxymoron. They are at cross purposes. Sticky tires for performance will eat into fuel economy, low rollling resistance tires will kill handling.  The weight of the Hybrid is negative for both acceleration and handling. Sporty and Hybrid are near mutually exclusive. CR-Z doesn't change that.


Comparing to what is out there:

CRZ somehow manages to be both slower and get less MPG than a big Ford Fusion hybrid.

Hondas own Fit is a better drivers car, faster, better handling, more practical, you can see out the back and it costs thousands less.

VW Golf TDI will get you similar performance, better fuel economy, and just better car all around.

The Fusion Hybrid is also 10 000 $ more than the CR-Z. Its advantage is due to its larger size which allows for a bigger battery and its different hybrid system that allows it to run only on the battery without turning the engine, something Honda's cheaper Integrated Motor Assist system cannot do. The CR-Z is a much better handler too.

BTW, from what info I have, the Fit isn't faster than the CR-Z, nor is it better handling.

The CR-Z is evidently a niche vehicle for people who want a small sporty car that looks futuristic and still gets great fuel economy. Like most "sporty" vehicles, if you look at it with a list of typical criteria and then compare with other options, it doesn't stand up, but that's normal. Sporty cars are often unjustifiable if you don't look at intangibles: how you like driving it, how it looks, etc... If we would care only about reasonable criteria for cars, we'd all be driving hatchbacks and station wagons with small 4 cylinder engines.

Offline ovr50

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2010, 02:52:26 pm »
IMO, a "Sport-Hybrid" will be about as "sporty" as a "Sport Utility Vehicle"... ::)

It's all marketing, once again.
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Offline Snowdog

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2010, 03:22:14 pm »
BTW, from what info I have, the Fit isn't faster than the CR-Z, nor is it better handling.

They are near dead heat in "speed". So it will likely depend on who tests it. Car and Driver found the Fit faster:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q3/2011_honda_cr-z_ex-road_test
Or, for a lot less money, there’s the Fit: slightly less efficient, but better in almost every way—and quicker. This will likely curse CR-Z sales no matter how good-looking it is.

As far as handling goes, I have read negatives on handling in almost every review.

Inside line found that it slalomed slower than a CRV(watch video review, ~2:15 they start talking about handling):
http://www.insideline.com/honda/cr-z/2011/2011-honda-cr-z-full-test-and-video.html

I find it funny that someone mentioned a comment about saying "fast for a minivan". Bear in mind, in that contest, the CR-Z is actually slower than a minivan.

Slower than a minivan, and out-handled by an SUV. What kind of "Sporty" is this supposed to be? Really it ultimately sells on looks, but even in that department I find the styling awkward at best.

This is major Flub for Honda.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 03:23:49 pm by Snowdog »

Offline Dante

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2010, 03:47:01 pm »
IMO, a "Sport-Hybrid" will be about as "sporty" as a "Sport Utility Vehicle"... ::)

It's all marketing, once again.

LOL... I always thought the meaning of Sport in Sport Utility Vehicles (SUV) to be something like carry your family and gear to sport activities (e.g. soccer, hockey, ski etc.)

For a hybrid I have no idea so far what it could stand for.

Offline wing

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2010, 04:21:12 pm »
I love how nobody here has driven it but can comment on it not being sporty.  You wait and see ;)

Offline Dante

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2010, 04:29:59 pm »
I love how nobody here has driven it but can comment on it not being sporty.  You wait and see ;)

Make sure you autocross it before Day 3 and let us know how it went.  ;)

Online tortoise

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2010, 04:31:26 pm »
I love how nobody here has driven it but can comment on it not being sporty.  You wait and see ;)

If being informed was a requirement for posting it would only be you, stickshift and Ovr50 on the boards!
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Offline wing

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2010, 04:32:28 pm »
I love how nobody here has driven it but can comment on it not being sporty.  You wait and see ;)

Make sure you autocross it before Day 3 and let us know how it went.  ;)

done :P

Offline Snowdog

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2010, 06:33:40 pm »
I love how nobody here has driven it but can comment on it not being sporty.  You wait and see ;)

So remove the forums because it is 99% people commenting on cars they never drove. 

Wait and see what? You are going to tell us that it is sporty in your opinion and that will change everything?

CD reviews aren't exactly known for providing any real data. I already read reviews/tests at C&D,MT,R&T, and Even Honda Fan site VTEC.net. Consensus is near universal that it is mediocre across the board.  I don't think your time with it will change my mind. This car missing the mark by such a wide margin I wouldn't even go out of my way to test drive it.


Offline CanuckS2K

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2010, 06:48:12 pm »
James, just curious how is the rear visibility in this?  Doesn't seem like it would be very good, but I've never sat in one either. 
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Offline Angry Chicken

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2010, 07:01:25 pm »
I love how nobody here has driven it but can comment on it not being sporty.  You wait and see ;)

So remove the forums because it is 99% people commenting on cars they never drove. 

Wait and see what? You are going to tell us that it is sporty in your opinion and that will change everything?

CD reviews aren't exactly known for providing any real data. I already read reviews/tests at C&D,MT,R&T, and Even Honda Fan site VTEC.net. Consensus is near universal that it is mediocre across the board.  I don't think your time with it will change my mind. This car missing the mark by such a wide margin I wouldn't even go out of my way to test drive it.


Well said.  I've been waiting for years for a replacement for my beloved CRX Si (a car which I still have, btw) and this ain't it!  The specs don't lie.  Honda you have yet to win me back!

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2010, 07:02:48 pm »

Well said.  I've been waiting for years for a replacement for my beloved CRX Si (a car which I still have, btw) and this ain't it!  The specs don't lie.  Honda you have yet to win me back!

.....and Honda hasn't marketed this as a replacement for the CRX, nor have I read Honda calling this a CRX successor.  Seems only CRX owners lovers are the one's saying this.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Weels

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2010, 07:06:45 pm »
Well it kinds looks like a duck,,, but doesn't quack like a duck



Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2010, 07:27:53 pm »
James, just curious how is the rear visibility in this?  Doesn't seem like it would be very good, but I've never sat in one either. 

 I have sat in one it appeared fine
But I usually have so much stuff in car I cannot see out the back anyway :rofl2:

Offline Angry Chicken

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2010, 08:14:02 pm »

Well said.  I've been waiting for years for a replacement for my beloved CRX Si (a car which I still have, btw) and this ain't it!  The specs don't lie.  Honda you have yet to win me back!

.....and Honda hasn't marketed this as a replacement for the CRX, nor have I read Honda calling this a CRX successor.  Seems only CRX owners lovers are the one's saying this.
Yup.  You've outed me!   :-[  Fact is that there are so many CRX owners that have waited patiently for a true successor to the CRX that we've well and truly lost hope.    'course if Honda wanted this to be a second coming for the CRX faithful they would've called it the CRX, wouldn't they have?

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2010, 08:27:36 pm »

Well said.  I've been waiting for years for a replacement for my beloved CRX Si (a car which I still have, btw) and this ain't it!  The specs don't lie.  Honda you have yet to win me back!

.....and Honda hasn't marketed this as a replacement for the CRX, nor have I read Honda calling this a CRX successor.  Seems only CRX owners lovers are the one's saying this.
Yup.  You've outed me!   :-[  Fact is that there are so many CRX owners that have waited patiently for a true successor to the CRX that we've well and truly lost hope.    'course if Honda wanted this to be a second coming for the CRX faithful they would've called it the CRX, wouldn't they have?

I suppose so.  I feel your pain.  Wish there was a modern Supra....though I have a feeling I'd be disappointed with it.

Offline TopGun

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2010, 08:54:22 pm »

I want a new CRX dammit!

 :iagree:

Buddy of mine just bought a 1987 CRX with 13,000 km on it...$6,000.   :o

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2011 Honda CR-Z; Day 1
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2010, 08:55:29 pm »

I want a new CRX dammit!

 :iagree:

Buddy of mine just bought a 1987 CRX with 13,000 km on it...$6,000.   :o

SI?