Topic: That time of year again! CCOTY

[5 Wheel Drive]

So James, forget the Avalon, did you get to try the SLS???

[Shnak]

I have no idea how the Cruze could be picked over the Sonata in the over $21k category. The Sonata instantly redefines the extremely competitve mainstream family sedan segment, and it gets beat by the Cruze? Sure, that makes sense. 

[Dante]

^^^

Just curious... how does Sonata " instantly redefines" the segment?
Other than that, I'm a bit surprised that Cruze won the category against Sonata.

Juke would've been a "revolutionary" vehicle in this group. Compact, fuel efficient, AWD, higher off the ground hatch - one of the first of its kind. It looks ugly, but it's unique in its way.
Perfect vehicle for people leaving in urban areas located in snowbelts.

[Shnak]

^^^

Just curious... how does Sonata " instantly redefines" the segment?
Other than that, I'm a bit surprised that Cruze won the category against Sonata.

Sorry, I completely screwed up my comment... Cruze and Sonata were NOT in the same segment... Cruze was in small car over $21k while the Sonata was in the Family car under $30k. So yeah, ignore my Cruze vs Sonata comment.

That said, I really feel as though the Sonata should've been recognized in its segment (vs Jetta TDI and Kizashi). The Sonata has become the new benchmark for the segment in many categories including fuel economy, technology (DI), power, equipment, value, etc. It raises the bar in many aspects. New offerings coming in with a 175hp-ish, non-DI engine won't cut it anymore... they'll need to compete with the Sonata both in power and fuel economy if they want to be considered amongst the best in the class. Just like Altima revolutionalized the class with its big power V6 years ago, Hyundai has done the same with the Sonata.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

^^^

Just curious... how does Sonata " instantly redefines" the segment?
Other than that, I'm a bit surprised that Cruze won the category against Sonata.

Sorry, I completely screwed up my comment... Cruze and Sonata were NOT in the same segment... Cruze was in small car over $21k while the Sonata was in the Family car under $30k. So yeah, ignore my Cruze vs Sonata comment.

That said, I really feel as though the Sonata should've been recognized in its segment (vs Jetta TDI and Kizashi). The Sonata has become the new benchmark for the segment in many categories including fuel economy, technology (DI), power, equipment, value, etc. It raises the bar in many aspects. New offerings coming in with a 175hp-ish, non-DI engine won't cut it anymore... they'll need to compete with the Sonata both in power and fuel economy if they want to be considered amongst the best in the class. Just like Altima revolutionalized the class with its big power V6 years ago, Hyundai has done the same with the Sonata.

I suspect Hyundai might have performed better if they chose to submit a trim lower than Limited. It offers great value, but the price weighting is high and the meat of the market below it.

[Shnak]

I suspect Hyundai might have performed better if they chose to submit a trim lower than Limited.

That's a fair point. In limited trim, it barely fit in the under $30k requirement and the high price of that trim probably played against it quite a bit.

[Dante]

^^^

While Sonata is a great car, I don’t think it really redefines the segment.

Fuel economy - the very same car that won the class offers better fuel economy and it is an unique offering with a diesel engine.

Technology - DI is hardly a novelty and it has been present in mainstream cars/SUVs for 1-2 years now and other manufactures announced its adoption before Sonata hit the market. What else is revolutionary in terms of technology?

Power - sure it had raised the power rating for a 4 cylinder engine, but I would not expect the other manufacturers to rush to beat it just for the sake of it. The power is only good to move the car faster, but if others can achieve similar results (.x sec to 60 mph is not relevant here) without needing to up it, I'm pretty sure they won't. Bedsides, we are talking 20 some horsepower which is not really a lot for a family sedan.

Equipment - I cannot think of any significant feature that is not offered by other manufacturers (maybe rear heated seats in top models). Standard BT is hardly notable in this day and age and there are "lesser" cars that have that too.

Value - it's a relative term. Does it offer good value? Sure it does, but this is one thing that Hyundai has been known for. Note however that now the price gap is much smaller than before.

I bet we'll continue to see the other family cars selling just fine although they have 170hp I4 engines. Sonata will definitely sell very well because it’s a very good and satisfying car overall.

I would’ve thought it would win its class as being the most significant car in the segment this year IMO, but I know the auto journalists are a strange bunch.

[Shnak]

Jetta TDI doesn't compete with the Sonata, the Accord, Camry, Altima, etc. do.

Take a look at what the direct competition of the Sonata offers in terms of power, fuel economy, standard equipment, technology advancements, etc, etc. You think Honda will be able to stay stagnant and keep their current engine as it is for the next generation of the Accord? Of course not... the Sonata is already beating it in sales in North America, Honda HAS to improve their car. Same goes to Camry, etc. Five speed automatics are a thing of the past in this segment... it has to be 6 speed or CVT. If not, you look outdated, and your fuel economy numbers suffer for it.

I'm not saying anything bad about the Jetta TDI... I'm just saying the Sonata was a much more meaningful entry in the mid-size segment than the Jetta was. The only explanation that makes sense to me is, like Siraqua said, Hyundai's decision to enter the Limited trim instead of the GLS...

[Dante]

There is no doubt in my mind that the industry will evolve, but not because Sonata is now the “benchmark.”.  What is notable though is that Hyundai is now a player with full rights and it contributes to the advancement of the industry as opposed to following wherever the industry is going like it used to.

Check out fueleconomy.org and compare Altima, Camry, Accord with the Sonata, all with I4 and Auto. Sonata is merely at par with them. The differences are so small that I would call it a wash.

Please don’t tell me Sonata has the best fuel economy in the class because it’s rated 0.2L/100 km highway better than the Accord and I won’t point out that Altima and Accord are rated 0.5L/100km better city and 0.3L/100 km better combined. 

[Leviathan]

Apparently there was some love for the CTS-V 

[TopGun]

I copied and pasted SirA's list and highlighted the winners in each category.

SirA did very pretty well!!  The Sonata?  Not so much.  The Regal and Cruze on the other hand...


Small car under 21k
Ford Fiesta (1)   <-Winner
Mazda2 (3)
Scion xB
Scion xD
Volkswagen Jetta (2)

Small car > $21k
Chevrolet Cruze (1)   <-Winner               
Honda CR-Z         
Kia Forte 5 (3)     
Nissan Juke  (2)       
Scion tC 

Family Car < $30k
Hyundai Sonata Limited (1)             
Suzuki Kizashi (3)     
Volkswagen Jetta TDI Clean Diesel (2)   <-Winner

Family Car > $30k
Buick Regal (3)   <-Winner         
Mercedes-Benz E-Class Wagon (1)
Toyota Avalon (2)

LUXURY CAR (over $50k)
Audi A8 (3)           
BMW 5 Series Sedan   <-Winner
Cadillac CTS Coupe         
Hyundai Equus       
Infiniti M (2)     
Lexus IS350         
Mercedes-Benz E350 BlueTEC Sedan (1)   
Volvo S60

PRESTIGE (over $75k)
Audi R8 Spyder (1)     
BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo         
Jaguar XJ Supercharged   
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG  (2)     
Porsche 911 Turbo S (3)   <-Winner

SPORTS - PERFORMANCE (over $50k)
Cadillac CTS-V Coupe  (2)   <-Winner       
Ford Mustang Shelby (1) 
Mercedes-Benz E550 Cabriolet (3)

MINIVAN
Honda Odyssey (2)
Toyota Sienna (1)   <-Winner

SUV - CUV (under $35k)
Hyundai Tucson (3)   <-Winner             
Kia Sportage (1)     
Mitsubishi RVR (2)

SUV - CUV (under $50k)
Ford Edge  (1)   <-Winner 
Honda Accord Crosstour  (3)     
Hyundai Santa Fe
Jeep Grand Cherokee         
Kia Sorento (2) 
Toyota 4Runner         
Toyota Highlander Hybrid

SUV - CUV (over $50k)
Ford Lincoln MKX         
Mercedes-Benz R350 BlueTEC  (1)
Porsche Cayenne (3)       
Volkswagen Touareg (2)   <-Winner

[Mike]

Does SirA now get a chicken dinner?

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Does SirA now get a chicken dinner?

Wing nailed 6 of 'em. Think he influenced the voting 

AJAC site doesn't have the vote details, but I'm interested in how close they were.

[wing]

Sonata wAs 2nd
Juke not in top 3
Crz was 2nd

Yes I drove sls

[Dante]

Sonata wAs 2nd
Juke not in top 3

Any insight why?

[inco]

Sonata wAs 2nd
Juke not in top 3

Any insight why?

On paper the Juke is a winner, but maybe in testing, people found other things. It will be interesting to read more about why.

[wing]

Wow I got a lot of them correct!  Here are the results from memory

Small car under 21k
Ford Fiesta (1)
Mazda2  (2)
Scion xB 
Scion xD
Volkswagen  (3)

Small car > $21k
Chevrolet Cruze (1)                
Honda CR-Z (2)          
Kia Forte 5           
Nissan Juke           
Scion tC  (3)

Family Car < $30k
Hyundai Sonata Limited   (2)              
Suzuki Kizashi     (3)      
Volkswagen Jetta TDI Clean Diesel  (1)

Family Car > $30k
Buick Regal   (1)           
Mercedes-Benz E-Class Wagon  (3)
Toyota Avalon (2)

LUXURY CAR (over $50k)
Audi A8                 
BMW 5 Series Sedan     (1)      
Cadillac CTS Coupe           
Hyundai Equus  
Infiniti M           
Lexus IS350           
Mercedes-Benz E350 BlueTEC Sedan (2)           
Volvo S60 (3)

PRESTIGE (over $75k)
Audi R8 Spyder       
BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo. (2)           
Jaguar XJ Supercharged     
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG  (3)
Porsche 911 Turbo S (1)

SPORTS - PERFORMANCE (over $50k)
Cadillac CTS-V Coupe      (1)
Ford Mustang Shelby     (3)   
Mercedes-Benz E550 Cabriolet (2)

MINIVAN
Honda Odyssey   (2)
Toyota Sienna     (1)

SUV - CUV (under $35k)
Hyundai Tucson  (1)               
Kia Sportage  (2)      
Mitsubishi RVR   (3)

SUV - CUV (under $50k)


Ford Edge        (1)   
Honda Accord Crosstour           
Hyundai Santa Fe 
Jeep Grand Cherokee (2)           
Kia Sorento        
Toyota 4Runner           
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (3)

SUV - CUV (over $50k)
Ford Lincoln MKX  (3)
Mercedes-Benz R350 BlueTEC 
Porsche Cayenne  (2)      
Volkswagen Touareg (1)

[Frontier1]

I have no idea how the Cruze could be picked over the Sonata in the over $21k category. The Sonata instantly redefines the extremely competitve mainstream family sedan segment, and it gets beat by the Cruze? Sure, that makes sense. 

AJAC is downright silly(maybe stupid) if you ask me.  Cruze and Sonata don't belong in the same category, let alone the Juke!!!  I love the new Sonata, but by the same token I think the Cruze is also a good looking little car that may take away sales from the Corolla/Civic market dominance. The categories based on $$$ value is ridiculous because it takes away from many of the entries. I think AJAC is a brown nosing excercise with the manufacturers anyways so.....bla bla bla. AJAC could not in any way influence me in my buying experience because if I'm looking at a Juke I'm certainly not looking at a Cruze or Sonata as an alternative...duh

[wing]

Dude the sonata and cruze were not in the same category. 

[wing]

And regArding the fiesta vs mazda2 debate.  I drove them back to back on the track and there is no question the fiesta handles better than the Mazda2. It is far more composed and so easy to drive on the limit.

The Mazda 2 is slightly more engaging because of the light weight but it is not as stable.