Topic: How did Hyundai do it?

[gotak]

274 HP out of a 2 liter turbo engine that runs on REGULAR? What happened did the law of physics changed? I am jealous lol, my speed 3 only gets 263 ponies and it needs premium!

[Leviathan]

Newer generation of injectors for better fuel management would be a good start.

[PJungnitsch]

Premium dude....premium!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dceB3SKBw9w

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Premium dude....premium!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dceB3SKBw9w

BTW gotak, Kawasaki is getting ~200hp out of a 1L normally aspirated engine in the new ZX10.

[Ice]

274 HP out of a 2 liter turbo engine that runs on REGULAR? What happened did the law of physics changed? I am jealous lol, my speed 3 only gets 263 ponies and it needs premium!

VW has a 2.0L turbo that gets somewhere between 200hp and 210hp and it needs premium too!

I don't know the specifics about engines but as usual... technology plus some, what appears to be, good engineering makes all the difference. Also a little movation.

[tpl]

Crank up the boost, cool the charge well and have a quite sophisticated strategy for the software controlling ignition and injection, both timing and duration of both.  That is after the  well engineered cylinder head and piston top design.
 VW/Audi have a version of the TFSI 2.0 that does 266 bhp. It uses premium as "premium"  aka Euro-95 is the standard pump fuel in its home market.

I don't know but I bet the EPA standard emission test goes nowhere near the part of the engines map where it produces 247 bhp.

[The Mighty Duck]

VW has a 2.0L turbo that gets somewhere between 200hp and 210hp and it needs premium too!

I don't know the specifics about engines but as usual... technology plus some, what appears to be, good engineering makes all the difference. Also a little movation.

Still not as bad as the first-gen Mini: 106 HP, naturally aspirated... and it needs premium. 

Granted, I guess if you can afford a Mini you can afford premium, but how can everyone else build a 106HP engine that runs on regular but BMW can't?

(Actually, IIRC that engine was sourced from Chrysler or somebody...)

[Mike]

That is very impressive.  My 2.5L Turbo needs premium and only makes 265HP.

This reminds me of the CTS.  3.0L V6 making 270HP and a 3.6L V6 making 304HP.  Both on regular gas.

[TopGun]

I have a 3.6L flat 4 that pumps out 100 bhp at 2550 RPM redline...circa 1940s tech.

[vdk]

I think what matters here is where the engine was designed and for what market. You have VW in one corner (and other European manufacturers) with the 2.0T which runs on premium (or regular in Euroland), and Hyundai and various domestic manufacturers with high-output turbo and N/A engines running on regular.

[safristi]

...274HP...........i th'ot it woz a MISPRINT................Now that is a 4BANGER.....................

[gotak]

It is a new engine. Now if they can do that with regular what if they make one for premium? 300 hp out of a 2 liter? 350? Now that would be a crazy fwd family car

[safristi]

U mean a CAR for a CRAZY FAMILY don't U..............the mazda speed 3 with 30 or more LESS HP is an ARM TWISTER.................i.e lets TAWK STEERING HERE..........so if Hyundai wanna sell 20% of these  Sonatas as TURBOs..they better decide wether they are fer "SCHIZZLES" OR GYM Membership PEC enhancers..

[EV Dan]

274 HP out of a 2 liter turbo engine that runs on REGULAR? What happened did the law of physics changed? I am jealous lol, my speed 3 only gets 263 ponies and it needs premium!

Wait until RR finds this thread 

[Arthur Dent]

VW has a 2.0L turbo that gets somewhere between 200hp and 210hp and it needs premium too!

I don't know the specifics about engines but as usual... technology plus some, what appears to be, good engineering makes all the difference. Also a little movation.

Still not as bad as the first-gen Mini: 106 HP, naturally aspirated... and it needs premium. 

Granted, I guess if you can afford a Mini you can afford premium, but how can everyone else build a 106HP engine that runs on regular but BMW can't?

(Actually, IIRC that engine was sourced from Chrysler or somebody...)

My Lada Niva needs premium ... 80-ish hp out of 1.7L.

[safristi]

  CLOSE..but NO Funny Kar Ceegar..............

[G35X]

Let’s take the Elantra’s NA 2-litre engine that produces 138HP, as an example.  If this engine is to make 274HP by turbocharging, the boot should be more than 14psi, since engine output varies in a quasi-direct relationship to the amount of fuel burnt in a given time.  In other words, you have to make the engine in question burn 100% more gas, which is only possible by feeding 100% more air (oxygen) by force.  Fine, the turbocharger can do it. However, problem is that by feeding 100% more air means the effective compression ratio becomes about 20 to 1, which is well into the diesel territory.  Higher compression ratio means higher temperature in the combustion chamber, which means the air/fuel mixture may ignite spontaneously. If the flame front (front of the combusting pressure wave) collides against the flame front from the sparkplug ignition that’s called knocking.  Take a look at the following video:

http://www.geocities.jp/bequemereise/knocking.html

To reduce the chance of knocking you can do several things:
1) Use the gas less prone to spontaneous ignition (premium gas).
2) Lower temperature inside the combustion chamber by squirting (injecting) gas directly against the cylinder wall (still hot from previous combustion) so that evaporating gas cools the combustion chamber.
3) Time the fuel injection so that the sparkplug-ignited flame front reaches the cylinder wall before unburnt fuel/air mixture ignites spontaneously. This may require two- or three-staged injections in a combustion cycle.
4) Place the sparkplug in the top centre of the combustion chamber so that the sparkplug-ignited flame front reaches at the cylinder wall in the shortest time possible evenly.  (Flame front travel speed is same for regular or premium gas.)

There may be other tricks to reduce the chance of knocking, but at any rate Hyundai should be commended for squeezing out 274HP from a 2-litre engine.  BTW, fuel economy of turbocharged engine should be looked at with the understanding that turbocharger (as well as supercharger) is a device to burn MORE fuel. The published fuel economy is measured with rather easy gas pedal modulation.  IF you step on it to the metal when starting and passing, certainly gas mileage goes down quite remarkably.  Hyundai must be using all the known (and some unknown, maybe) tricks to reduce fuel consumption such as, when load is low, delaying intake valve closure and mixing oxygen-depleted exhaust gas in the intake air.

[tpl]

"3) Time the fuel injection so that the sparkplug-ignited flame front reaches the cylinder wall before unburnt fuel/air mixture ignites spontaneously. This may require two- or three-staged injections in a combustion cycle.

and multiple sparks as well or  establishing the arc across the plug and maintaining it for some time.
According to the workshop manual my 330 BMW did this in 2003.

I wonder if that mixed cycle Otto/Diesel engine that M-B were making ( trying to make work) is going anywhere for applications that need high power from an economical engine.

[Erik]

Let’s take the Elantra’s NA 2-litre engine that produces 138HP, as an example.  If this engine is to make 274HP by turbocharging, the boot should be more than 14psi, since engine output varies in a quasi-direct relationship to the amount of fuel burnt in a given time.  In other words, you have to make the engine in question burn 100% more gas, which is only possible by feeding 100% more air (oxygen) by force.  Fine, the turbocharger can do it. However, problem is that by feeding 100% more air means the effective compression ratio becomes about 20 to 1, which is well into the diesel territory.  Higher compression ratio means higher temperature in the combustion chamber, which means the air/fuel mixture may ignite spontaneously. If the flame front (front of the combusting pressure wave) collides against the flame front from the sparkplug ignition that’s called knocking.  Take a look at the following video:

http://www.geocities.jp/bequemereise/knocking.html

To reduce the chance of knocking you can do several things:
1) Use the gas less prone to spontaneous ignition (premium gas).
2) Lower temperature inside the combustion chamber by squirting (injecting) gas directly against the cylinder wall (still hot from previous combustion) so that evaporating gas cools the combustion chamber.
3) Time the fuel injection so that the sparkplug-ignited flame front reaches the cylinder wall before unburnt fuel/air mixture ignites spontaneously. This may require two- or three-staged injections in a combustion cycle.
4) Place the sparkplug in the top centre of the combustion chamber so that the sparkplug-ignited flame front reaches at the cylinder wall in the shortest time possible evenly.  (Flame front travel speed is same for regular or premium gas.)

There may be other tricks to reduce the chance of knocking, but at any rate Hyundai should be commended for squeezing out 274HP from a 2-litre engine.  BTW, fuel economy of turbocharged engine should be looked at with the understanding that turbocharger (as well as supercharger) is a device to burn MORE fuel. The published fuel economy is measured with rather easy gas pedal modulation.  IF you step on it to the metal when starting and passing, certainly gas mileage goes down quite remarkably.  Hyundai must be using all the known (and some unknown, maybe) tricks to reduce fuel consumption such as, when load is low, delaying intake valve closure and mixing oxygen-depleted exhaust gas in the intake air.

Nice post!

[G35X]

Erik, thank you!