Topic: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Yea..I was going to say it's a bit more than jut currency fluctuations.  As I understand it, the labour costs are more (particularly any skilled labour for the plants) along with shipping costs AND currency fluctuations.

Things should be better once the car is made here, providing they can keep up the same quality.

It's supposed to be the same tooling, so one can hope. Certainly have a better shot at making money here than in Germany.

[rrocket]

Yea..I was going to say it's a bit more than jut currency fluctuations.  As I understand it, the labour costs are more (particularly any skilled labour for the plants) along with shipping costs AND currency fluctuations.

Things should be better once the car is made here, providing they can keep up the same quality.

It's supposed to be the same tooling, so one can hope. Certainly have a better shot at making money here than in Germany.

Agreed

[Jaeger]

Keep burying your head in the sand, fellas.

Almost any car can run at 125mph nowadays, so no biggie there.  To give you some perspective...the Regal CXL does the same 0-60 (or slower) as the hybrid, slow, Lexus HS250 I'm driving.  Are you going to tell me the HS250 is also sporting??  The Lexus IS250 is somewhat mocked for being a a girls car, a weakling and feeling slow..and it's almost a second quicker to 60.  C'mon guys...this car is a slug, why are you guys in denial about this?  When many of the reviews have "let down" and "just adequate" in them...you know somethings up.

CAR AND DRIVER: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q3/2011_buick_regal_cxl-road_test

Which brings us to even more bad news: The Regal’s excellent though heavy chassis is let down by its base powertrain. The 182-hp, 2.4-liter direct-injection four-cylinder falls 19 horses short of the TSX’s port-injected 2.4—granted, that one takes premium fuel— and 18 short of Hyundai’s DI 2.4-liter, which doesn’t. Plus the Regal’s torque peak sits at an elevated 4900 rpm, making the most potent part of the power band the narrow zone between that point and its 6500-rpm redline. A redline, you’ll notice, that is actually 200 rpm below the engine’s power peak (the fuel cutoff doesn’t come in until 7000 rpm, however, but the transmission shifts well shy of that any­way). Plus, it’s not nearly as engaging as the honking Acura engine, and during steep uphill sections of the Nürburgring, or even at high­way speeds, acceleration is discerned more by engine racket than actual thrust. And the transmission, while smooth, could be more prompt, particularly during wide-open-throttle upshifts and while using the manu­matic function. Use of the lat­ter becomes necessary during enthusiastic driving because, otherwise, upshifts happen the instant the driver backs off the throttle.

When pressed about this, Buick types tend to mention “responsible performance.” We have another term for the Regal’s ordinary horsepower and substantial heft: slow. Accelerating to 60 mph in 8.7 seconds puts the Regal at the plodding end of the four-cyl­inder family-sedan crowd and well off the luxury pace. Even fuel-economy ratings— 19 mpg city and 30 highway— are clobbered by the similarly sized Sonata (22 city and 35 highway) and bettered by the larger and 58-hp stronger BMW 528i, too

CANADIANDRIVER  http://www.canadiandriver.com/2010/09/22/test-drive-2011-buick-regal-cxl.htm/2

Unfortunately, the base Regal is let down by its pedestrian powertrain. The engine’s power is only adequate, and while there’s nothing wrong with a car not having the most powerful motor in its class, you’d at least hope for one willing to go all out when pressed. Instead, the 2.4-litre four-cylinder never sounds happy about being run out to its 6,500 rpm redline. Compounding that is the slow-witted nature of this automatic transmission, which also feels completely uninterested in making the Regal go fast. It’s hesitant to downshift when acceleration is called for, and in my car, felt indecisive about the right time to upshift in many situations (which is not something I’ve noticed in other GM cars with this transmission). To be clear, it’s not that the powertrain is poor; it’s simply underwhelming and has no business in a car being marketed as a sport sedan.

CanadianDriver (James)  http://www.canadiandriver.com/2010/08/17/day-by-day-review-2011-buick-regal-cxl.htm/3

I’m not sure how this engine and transmission combination can be deemed sporty, though. It really is a letdown compared to what seems like a really well-done chassis. The six-speed automatic shifts slowly and manual mode is worse than just letting it chose gears on its own.

The 2.4-litre engine works fine but there is nothing exciting to talk about here. It moves the car’s weight adequately but doesn’t feel peppy or eager in any way.

AUTONORTH  http://www.autonorth.ca/home/2010/8/30/behind-the-wheel-2011-buick-regal-cxl-review.html

Try as we might, we just weren’t able to make the Regal feel exciting to drive, in any situation. Hard acceleration out of a corner resulted in a lackluster response; downshifting and accelerating hard to pass slow traffic resulted in a quickened heart-rate, but not because of the thrill of speed. Sport sedan, minus the sport.


And it goes on and on and on.

Go read almost ANY car review with a car that does 0-60 in 8.5-8.7 seconds and see if they refer to it as fast, thrilling, exciting, etc...Yes, it will be adequate for the AVERAGE driver...but most people buying sport sedans aren't looking for adequate, average performance.

My Echo does 0-60 in the same time as does my hybrid loaner...and neither of those are exciting in the least.  Instead, they are SLOW

Bingo.  Slow, letdown, underwhelming, lackluster - all the things the slappie lynch mob wants to have at me for saying.  It's just reality, and in this case, reality bites.

As fast as an Echo! - I wonder if the Buick marketing guys will latch on to that one.

I don't think anyone here, or in any other review thinks this is a BAD car.  It's actually quite good....just let down by the engine/tranny.

As I said...."Yes, it will be adequate for the AVERAGE driver...but most people buying sport sedans aren't looking for adequate, average performance."  Or are they? Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. Slow, underwhelming, lackluster and barely adequate are not adjectives used to describe a sports sedan.

Jaeger

[CatsEye68]

There is something to be said for consistency if nothing else, so it gives me a nice comfy feeling to visit this section of the forums and see "Last Post: Jaeger" so often in a Buick thread.

I think he's going for 50 again.

[Jaeger]

There is something to be said for consistency if nothing else, so it gives me a nice comfy feeling to visit this section of the forums and see "Last Post: Jaeger" so often in a Buick thread.

I think he's going for 50 again.

Hi Greg,

Again, your warm attention to my posts is so very welcome.  But hey, how come you're not counting Sir O's posts? I'm still pretty sure he's got me beat. 

And how come you continually post, yet make no contribution whatsoever to the subject matter of the thread?

Just wondering. 

Jaeger

[dirtyjeffer]

Having said that, Graem Fletcher wrote the following:

The Regal uses GM's 2.4-litre Ecotec engine. It's a state-of-the-art, direct-injected four that produces 182 horsepower and 172 pound-feet of torque at 4,900 rpm. Let's get one thing straight -- nobody is going to be bowled over by the motivation this engine delivers. However, it is more than adequate for just about any eventuality except drag racing. Tromp the gas and the Regal runs to 100 kilometres an hour in 8.6 seconds, which is faster than the likes of the Toyota Camry (by almost a full second!) and Honda Accord when they are equipped with a four-cylinder engine.

you highlighted the wrong part...i requoted it, and highlighted our point.

for a car that is marketed as a "Sports Sedan", it clearly is lacking in the "sports" department...when you compare it to a 4 cylinder Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, both run of the mill family sedans, that should end the "sports sedan" discussion right there...is it an adequate engine??...sure...but something that is $35k should be more than adequate, otherwise, why not just get a Malibu??...it's equally adequate and $10k less expensive.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Having said that, Graem Fletcher wrote the following:

The Regal uses GM's 2.4-litre Ecotec engine. It's a state-of-the-art, direct-injected four that produces 182 horsepower and 172 pound-feet of torque at 4,900 rpm. Let's get one thing straight -- nobody is going to be bowled over by the motivation this engine delivers. However, it is more than adequate for just about any eventuality except drag racing. Tromp the gas and the Regal runs to 100 kilometres an hour in 8.6 seconds, which is faster than the likes of the Toyota Camry (by almost a full second!) and Honda Accord when they are equipped with a four-cylinder engine.

you highlighted the wrong part...i requoted it, and highlighted our point.

for a car that is marketed as a "Sports Sedan", it clearly is lacking in the "sports" department...when you compare it to a 4 cylinder Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, both run of the mill family sedans, that should end the "sports sedan" discussion right there...is it an adequate engine??...sure...but something that is $35k should be more than adequate, otherwise, why not just get a Malibu??...it's equally adequate and $10k less expensive.

No I didn't. I was making the point that its base motor is adequate. The TSX was likewise marketed as a sports sedan and has identical 0-60 times. Nobody really cared. Same thing for a GM product and all of the sudden it's a huge crisis.

If your priority is 0-60, as I've said countless times, buy the Lacrosse CSX, or the Malibu, or whatever tickles your fancy.

A BMW 335i is slower than a Mustang GT for more money too, yet people still buy plenty of each. People buy cars for all kinds of reasons.

[dirtyjeffer]

No I didn't. I was making the point that its base motor is adequate. The TSX was likewise marketed as a sports sedan and has identical 0-60 times. Nobody really cared. Same thing for a GM product and all of the sudden it's a huge crisis.

If your priority is 0-60, as I've said countless times, buy the Lacrosse CSX, or the Malibu, or whatever tickles you fancy.

A BMW 335i is slower than a Mustang GT for more money too, yet people still buy plenty of each. People buy cars for all kinds of reasons.

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...as i said, if adequate is good enough, get a Malibu and save $10k...heck, save $4k and get a loaded up Sonata...it has adequate handling, it also has more power, better fuel economy, more features, a better warranty and i believe has more space...as well, Hyundai isn't marketing the Sonata Turbo as a Sports Sedan...it is being sold as simply a family car with V6 like power...if the Regal were being sold as an "upscale family sedan", none of us would have this debate.

[Dante]

Is the 2.4L I4 in the base Regal direct-injected as the quote 2 post above seem to indicate? I thought it is the basic 2.4L Ecotec non-DI found in the Malibu.

[dirtyjeffer]

Is the 2.4L I4 in the base Regal direct-injected as the quote 2 post above seem to indicate? I thought it is the basic 2.4L Ecotec non-DI found in the Malibu.

yes, the 2.4 I4 in the Regal is DI...the 2.4 I4 in the Malibu is not...so, for $8k, you get 12 more HP...the Malibu is build on the Epsilon platform, the Regal is built on the Epsilon II platform.

[Erik]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...as i said, if adequate is good enough, get a Malibu and save $10k...heck, save $4k and get a loaded up Sonata...it has adequate handling, it also has more power, better fuel economy, more features, a better warranty and i believe has more space...as well, Hyundai isn't marketing the Sonata Turbo as a Sports Sedan...it is being sold as simply a family car with V6 like power...if the Regal were being sold as an "upscale family sedan", none of us would have this debate.

Believe it or not, there are people who do not want a Hyundai Sonata, regardless of how much you love it. That is not a shot at Hyundai, for those who love to call names. It is just reality. There are also people who will never street race their car to see what it can and cannot beat to 60.  Just being sporty and nicely designed is more than enough for them. The car has been very well excepted in markets around the world, and I think it will do well for Buick. It is nothing like the kind of car that I want (nor is a Sonata), but it seems capable and competent. It is a new and viable option in the class, offering good value for the money.

[Erik]

Is the 2.4L I4 in the base Regal direct-injected as the quote 2 post above seem to indicate? I thought it is the basic 2.4L Ecotec non-DI found in the Malibu.

yes, the 2.4 I4 in the Regal is DI...the 2.4 I4 in the Malibu is not...so, for $8k, you get 12 more HP...the Malibu is build on the Epsilon platform, the Regal is built on the Epsilon II platform.

You sure get a heck of a lot more for your $8K than just 12 hp.

[Dante]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...

The Regal starts at $32K, very well equipped. The Turbo starts at $35K, very well equipped as well. Just saying for accuracy...

Sonata Ltd - $29K
Mazda6 GT - $29.9K
Accord EX-L- $30.8K
Altima 2.5SL - $30.6K
Malibu LTZ - $32.8K 

[dirtyjeffer]

You sure get a heck of a lot more for your $8K than just 12 hp.

i know, but nothing else "sporty".

aside from the slight increase in power, you also get auto headlights, climate control, heated mirrors, power passenger seat and leather seats...all that, for $8k.

[dirtyjeffer]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...

The Regal starts at $32K, very well equipped. The Turbo starts at $35K, very well equipped as well. Just saying for accuracy...

Sonata Ltd - $29K
Mazda6 GT - $29.9K
Accord EX-L- $30.8K
Altima 2.5SL - $30.6K

you aren't likely to find many $32k cars on the lot, especially if they are losing money on the car as it is...so, expect the see the "common model" (mid trim) at about $35k be the ones you see for sale...looking online, i saw 209 Regals available waiting for sale...yes, some were in the $33k range, but the vast majority of them are $35-$40k (and these aren't the Turbo models)...even the model tested in the article for this thread was $36k...that is what you are likely to find.

[Dante]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...

The Regal starts at $32K, very well equipped. The Turbo starts at $35K, very well equipped as well. Just saying for accuracy...

Sonata Ltd - $29K
Mazda6 GT - $29.9K
Accord EX-L- $30.8K
Altima 2.5SL - $30.6K

you aren't likely to find many $32k cars on the lot, especially if they are losing money on the car as it is...so, expect the see the "common model" (mid trim) at about $35k be the ones you see for sale...looking online, i saw 209 Regals available waiting for sale...yes, some were in the $33k range, but the vast majority of them are $35-$40k (and these aren't the Turbo models)...even the model tested in the article for this thread was $36k...that is what you are likely to find.

MRSP prices posted, not taking into consideration stock availability and momentary market conditions, etc.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...as i said, if adequate is good enough, get a Malibu and save $10k...heck, save $4k and get a loaded up Sonata...it has adequate handling, it also has more power, better fuel economy, more features, a better warranty and i believe has more space...as well, Hyundai isn't marketing the Sonata Turbo as a Sports Sedan...it is being sold as simply a family car with V6 like power...if the Regal were being sold as an "upscale family sedan", none of us would have this debate.

I don't understand what your argument is. As I've said, if the car doesn't seem to be a good fit for you, choose something else. The suspension tuning is very, very good. Believe it or not, some people don't live by 0-60 times, and a lot of people don't pay attention to marketing pap.

[Erik]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...

The Regal starts at $32K, very well equipped. The Turbo starts at $35K, very well equipped as well. Just saying for accuracy...

Sonata Ltd - $29K
Mazda6 GT - $29.9K
Accord EX-L- $30.8K
Altima 2.5SL - $30.6K

you aren't likely to find many $32k cars on the lot, especially if they are losing money on the car as it is...so, expect the see the "common model" (mid trim) at about $35k be the ones you see for sale...looking online, i saw 209 Regals available waiting for sale...yes, some were in the $33k range, but the vast majority of them are $35-$40k (and these aren't the Turbo models)...even the model tested in the article for this thread was $36k...that is what you are likely to find.

Can we end this incorrect point once and for all?

 GM has never said they are losing money on the Regal. What Maximum Bob said was:

"We could either price it where the euro-dollar exchange would want it priced -- where it would be almost sales proof," he quipped. "Or we could forego any significant profitability on the vehicle until we can get the plant in Canada producing the Regal."

In other words, they are not making a lot of profit on it. This is hugely different that LOSING money.

[Erik]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...as i said, if adequate is good enough, get a Malibu and save $10k...heck, save $4k and get a loaded up Sonata...it has adequate handling, it also has more power, better fuel economy, more features, a better warranty and i believe has more space...as well, Hyundai isn't marketing the Sonata Turbo as a Sports Sedan...it is being sold as simply a family car with V6 like power...if the Regal were being sold as an "upscale family sedan", none of us would have this debate.

I don't understand what your argument is. As I've said, if the car doesn't seem to be a good fit for you, choose something else. The suspension tuning is very, very good. Believe it or not, some people don't live by 0-60 times, and a lot of people don't pay attention to marketing pap.

Sir O, his argument is that he doesn't like the Regal, and prefers the Sonata. Fair enough, I guess. I just don't understand why he has to keep saying it over and over and over again. I think we have long since gotten the point.

[toolatecrew]

you are correct, the base motor is adequate...but that doesn't sound acceptable for a $35k Sports Sedan...

The Regal starts at $32K, very well equipped. The Turbo starts at $35K, very well equipped as well. Just saying for accuracy...

Sonata Ltd - $29K
Mazda6 GT - $29.9K
Accord EX-L- $30.8K
Altima 2.5SL - $30.6K

you aren't likely to find many $32k cars on the lot, especially if they are losing money on the car as it is...so, expect the see the "common model" (mid trim) at about $35k be the ones you see for sale...looking online, i saw 209 Regals available waiting for sale...yes, some were in the $33k range, but the vast majority of them are $35-$40k (and these aren't the Turbo models)...even the model tested in the article for this thread was $36k...that is what you are likely to find.

Can we end this incorrect point once and for all?

 GM has never said they are losing money on the Regal. What Maximum Bob said was:

"We could either price it where the euro-dollar exchange would want it priced -- where it would be almost sales proof," he quipped. "Or we could forego any significant profitability on the vehicle until we can get the plant in Canada producing the Regal."

In other words, they are not making a lot of profit on it. This is hugely different that LOSING money.

That's an assumption on your part.

Lets say that IF the vehicle was made in Canada that they made 1500 per vehicle..which would be "significant" profitability. If they bring it from Europe and LOSE $100 a car they are still forgoing the $1500 profit. If they make only $100 they are still forgoing 1400 in significant profit. If they lose 1000 a car they a "forgoing" that 1500 significant profit.

No where do they say they are NOT losing money.

The only thing we do know is that at present they are not MAKING any significant amount of money on it. Thus the restriction on the supply and also why am very skeptical of any claims from Buick marketing that "Our dealers are asking for 2x as many regals as they can get" actually meaning that sales are blockbuster. If they restricted supply so severely because of lack of profit some dealer maybe only got 1 car when they might have sold 2. It doesn't mean that sales are much more than expected simply because they artificially limited supply BELOW projected sales.

When the Volt comes out in the US first and we need to wait a year for it in Canada I suppose GM Canada will tell everyone "The Volt is such a success that dealers in Toronto have people lining up to order the Volt" when in fact people can't do anything BUT line up because its not available.

GM is bad at many things but marketing spin is not one of those things.