Author Topic: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL  (Read 54370 times)

Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #200 on: September 29, 2010, 04:38:39 pm »
I think I'm more surprised at the sales numbers for the TSX and TL....

In agood or bad way? I guess bad since Acura sales have been sliding for a good while now.

Sorta good.  People seem to hate the looks, yet they seem to be selling decently...
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #201 on: September 29, 2010, 05:17:08 pm »
...the Regal, while a nice car, doesn't really offer anything "over and above" to help it really stand out...yes, it has a nice interior, but so do most cars now...yes, it has a decent ride, but again, so do many others (especially in the mid-size class)...there just isn't really anything there that stands out and says "Hey, you should seriously buy me over XYZ", and that is the problem.

I'll disagree with you on that one point - I think the ride / handling combination that the Buick offers is better than decent and definitely above average.  It's certainly the one component that sets it above the Camcordimanata group of midsize offerings and makes a case for the "premium sports sedan" claim.  Problem is, it's the ONLY thing that sets it apart from more pedestrian midsize sedans.  There isn't much else to say "spend  more money to buy me over them".  And when it comes to more upscale offerings, others offer much more for the same or slightly more money.

Jaeger
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Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #202 on: September 29, 2010, 06:48:19 pm »
Just to set the record straight, out of all things listed, the Sonata only "leads" in power on the paper.

This is not to say it is not at the top of the class, but not quite the "leader", which assumes it would be the best in every aspect listed.
the 2.4L engine in the Sonata has 198 HP...that is about 20-30 more than each of its 4 cylinder competitors (i don't know what you mean by "on the paper" as it has the most power, period).

the Sonata has the best fuel economy of any of its competitors...in fact, it is pretty close to many compact cars (and even better than many of those).

the Sonata has the lowest curb weight (although, it might be 2nd) of all of its competitors, which, when combined with its more powerful engine, help improve performance and fuel ecomony.

the Sonata includes ALL the safety features as Standard Equipment on ALL trim levels...all the air bags, Stability Control, ABS, Electronic Brake Force Distribution, Brake Assist, Bluetooth Handsfee, etc.

the Sonata, along with only the new Accord are actually considered "Full Size" vehicles in the US because of their interior size...the Accord has a tiny bit more "passenger volume", but the Sonata has a much larger truck...they are both still sold as "Mid-Size" vehicles though, and are the largest of the class (in terms of interior volume, not footprint).

the Sonata is also one of the few to use a 6sp Automatic as many of its competitors use a 5 speed automatic (and some still use a 4 speed automatic).

the engine in the Sonata (don't get mad at me) uses a timing chain, whereas most of its competitors use a timing belt.

there are probably numerous other things as well, but that is certainly enough for now...the reason i know all this, is i have been doing a lot of research as i will be purchasing a new car next year, and i like to take my time to make sure i make the right decision.
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Offline Mozeby

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #203 on: September 29, 2010, 07:57:28 pm »
So wait a minute.  It's being priced as a premium sports sedan.  At $32K? How many premium sports sedans do you know that start at 32K? 

The one I drove was closer to $36k and the dealer said it didn't have all options.  It certainly didn't have nav. I'm pretty sure that when the Turbo comes with out its long laundry list of options, we will see it quickly up into G37 territory, even if it starts at a lower base price.  The G will eat it for breakfast.

Yes, I get that power isn't important to some people.  That point has been made over and over and over and over again.  I hope for Buick's sake that they find a strong niche demand amongst enthusiast buyers for (comparatively) slow sports sedans.  I wish them the best of luck.

Jaeger

Yes, but I'm going by the starting point.  The turbo from what I saw starts at 34999 and has 6 speed auto or manual for that price.  I haven't checked but a base 4 banger TSX starts around there or higher.  I'm sure you could also load that car to the 40K mark where it too would be a G37s lunch.

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #204 on: September 29, 2010, 09:05:10 pm »
Yes, but I'm going by the starting point.  The turbo from what I saw starts at 34999 and has 6 speed auto or manual for that price.  I haven't checked but a base 4 banger TSX starts around there or higher.  I'm sure you could also load that car to the 40K mark where it too would be a G37s lunch.

But that's the problem with "teaser" base prices - how many of those will actually be available?  My dealer told me they won't stock the manual turbo at all - it will be a "special order only" as they expect the take rate for a stickshift midsize Buick sedan to be rather miniscule, to say the least.  And whatever the base price is for the normally aspirated model, just about all the ones I looked at were 35.5 to 36.5 as equipped on the lot.  The turbo has a loooong options list.  I would be surprised to see many at $35k given what I have seen of the way they stock the normally aspirated model.  When we see the comparison tests run, you're going to be looking at a $40k Buick Regal sedan, would be my guess.  At that price it's going to be even more underpowered relative to the competition than the base model is.  Hmmmm 220 hp FWD Buick sports sedan or 330hp Infiniti RWD sports sedan - if they're anywhere close to the same money, the Buick doesn't have a prayer.

Jaeger

Offline Dante

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #205 on: September 29, 2010, 09:24:48 pm »
Just to set the record straight, out of all things listed, the Sonata only "leads" in power on the paper.

This is not to say it is not at the top of the class, but not quite the "leader", which assumes it would be the best in every aspect listed.
the 2.4L engine in the Sonata has 198 HP...that is about 20-30 more than each of its 4 cylinder competitors (i don't know what you mean by "on the paper" as it has the most power, period).

the Sonata has the best fuel economy of any of its competitors...in fact, it is pretty close to many compact cars (and even better than many of those).

the Sonata has the lowest curb weight (although, it might be 2nd) of all of its competitors, which, when combined with its more powerful engine, help improve performance and fuel ecomony.

the Sonata includes ALL the safety features as Standard Equipment on ALL trim levels...all the air bags, Stability Control, ABS, Electronic Brake Force Distribution, Brake Assist, Bluetooth Handsfee, etc.

the Sonata, along with only the new Accord are actually considered "Full Size" vehicles in the US because of their interior size...the Accord has a tiny bit more "passenger volume", but the Sonata has a much larger truck...they are both still sold as "Mid-Size" vehicles though, and are the largest of the class (in terms of interior volume, not footprint).

the Sonata is also one of the few to use a 6sp Automatic as many of its competitors use a 5 speed automatic (and some still use a 4 speed automatic).

the engine in the Sonata (don't get mad at me) uses a timing chain, whereas most of its competitors use a timing belt.

there are probably numerous other things as well, but that is certainly enough for now...the reason i know all this, is i have been doing a lot of research as i will be purchasing a new car next year, and i like to take my time to make sure i make the right decision.

Not the place to discuss the Sonata, but:

1. More power + less weight <> higher performance in Sonata's case. Altima 2.5L is still faster to 60 mph and Mazda6 and perhaps Fusion still out-handles Sonata.
2. Altima and Accord Auto/CVT get (marginally) better combined FE according to EPA.
3. Other (most) mid-size sedans have all/same safety features standard as well. BT is not really a safety feature is it?

Which 2.4L mid-size car uses 4AT these days? Please don't tell me Galant or Sebring. Stay with the new-ish cars.
6AT is the norm these days so nothing "leading" here (6AT has been old news for a while now). Competitive? Yes.

I'll ignore the chain thing (my old 05 Mazda3, one class below out on the market 7 years ago has chain so no big deal there nevermind novelty LOL).

Great competitive car, good value, well built, good quality, etc. but not really leading anything.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 09:30:26 pm by carcrazy »

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #206 on: September 30, 2010, 02:56:15 pm »
1. More power + less weight <> higher performance in Sonata's case. Altima 2.5L is still faster to 60 mph and Mazda6 and perhaps Fusion still out-handles Sonata.

this article details some of its attributes: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_1002_2011_hyundai_sonata_se_test/index.html

"So, on initial impressions, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata SE seems to present a strong case for itself. On paper, it racks up enough best-in-class points to whoop the competition without breaking a sweat."

and more here:

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/research-tools/awards/sonata-ar_Sonata_cars_2011_25k_review.aspx?GUID=0EB4DA27-2789-4BB2-A461-8035855B80C3

Quote
2. Altima and Accord Auto/CVT get (marginally) better combined FE according to EPA.

EPA ratings on the Altima CVT are marginally high (1 mpg), but if you look at "REAL WORLD" mpg, the Sonata is exceeding its EPA rating whereas most other cars are often slightly less...for example, the Sonata is rated at a combined 26 mpg, yet the real world average by users is 29.7...the EPA rating for the Altima is 27, but the real world average is actually only 22.8...the EPA rating on the Accord is 25mpg, but the real world average is actually 24.3...interesting how the Accord is actually getting very close to its EPA rating, yet the Altima isn't nearly as close (not a fault against the Altima, as the EPA rating is more of a calculated "guess" on what average drivers will see...but the point is, the Sonata is exceptional on fuel economy and is a leader in that segment...a hypermiler even recorded 65.5 mpg on a drive from Milwaukee to NY on just under a tank of gas...you won't do that in any other mid-sized (or even full size) vehicle aside from MAYBE a Jetta TDi.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/23/2011-hyundai-sonata-1-065-miles-on-16-07-gallons-66-285-mpg/

Quote
3. Other (most) mid-size sedans have all/same safety features standard as well. BT is not really a safety feature is it?

i consider BT a safety feature as it allows simple handsfree phone operation...it wouldn't surprise me to see it (or something similar) required by law as a standard feature in 5 years...also, in the spring, the 2011 Sonata was chosen as a top safety pick, hence my comment about leading in safety.

Quote
Which 2.4L mid-size car uses 4AT these days? Please don't tell me Galant or Sebring. Stay with the new-ish cars.
6AT is the norm these days so nothing "leading" here (6AT has been old news for a while now). Competitive? Yes.

Subaru Impreza and Chevy Impala (full size) come to my mind without even looking up specs...and no, 6speed is not the standard...5 speed autos are becoming standard, 6speed autos are certainly less common (but there are increasing), and now 7 and 8 speed models are showing up (although, only in Premium vehicles like MB, BMW, etc).

Quote
I'll ignore the chain thing (my old 05 Mazda3, one class below out on the market 7 years ago has chain so no big deal there nevermind novelty LOL).

feel free to ignore it, but it is still a $400-$1000 maintenance requirement down the road...that must be considered in the "Cost of Ownership" calculation...no, it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me either, but its a plus nonetheless.

Quote
Great competitive car, good value, well built, good quality, etc. but not really leading anything.
Leads in fuel ecomony (already stated that)
Leads in Safety (Top pick and all safety features come standard, already stated)
Leads in Power (already stated, you brought up the "performance comment", not I)
Leads in "space" (only the Accord is also considered a "full size" car due to the amount of space the vehicle offers)

so yes, it is class leading in many areas, of which, are important to many people who purchase a car in this segment.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 02:58:01 pm by dirtyjeffer »

Offline Dante

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #207 on: September 30, 2010, 03:32:16 pm »
1. More power + less weight <> higher performance in Sonata's case. Altima 2.5L is still faster to 60 mph and Mazda6 and perhaps Fusion still out-handles Sonata.

this article details some of its attributes: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_1002_2011_hyundai_sonata_se_test/index.html

"So, on initial impressions, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata SE seems to present a strong case for itself. On paper, it racks up enough best-in-class points to whoop the competition without breaking a sweat."

Even the quote you used states "on paper". It doesn't translate in the best "on the road" performance in the class (Altima is still faster, Mazda6 and Fusion still go faster between the pilons, etc.).
If more HP and less weight does not translate in better performance it's kind of useless IMO.

The EPA is the established standard to rate vehicles' fuel economy and it is widely used for comparison purposes. Your mileage may vary. I know mine does and it can be either way depending on the driving conditions.

I thought you are comparing Sonata against other midsizers not through the whole auto spectrum (please ... Impala is on its way to the graveyard). If you do that, then you notice that there is only one and a half cars that use 5AT in this class.

Camry I4 - 6AT
Fusion I4 - 6AT
Malibu I4  - 6AT
Mazda6 I4 - 5AT (6AT on the V6)
Accord I4 - 5AT
Altima I4 - CVT
Legacy - CVT
Kizashi - CVT

IMO Bluetooth is a convenience feature and it seems like the manufacturers tend to agree since they list it as such on the spec sheets. If you think BT is a safety feature, maybe it is safer not to use a cell phone all together while driving. Talking on the phone is distracting regardless if you use hands-free or not.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 03:35:58 pm by carcrazy »

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #208 on: September 30, 2010, 08:17:05 pm »
Even the quote you used states "on paper". It doesn't translate in the best "on the road" performance in the class (Altima is still faster, Mazda6 and Fusion still go faster between the pilons, etc.).
If more HP and less weight does not translate in better performance it's kind of useless IMO.

The EPA is the established standard to rate vehicles' fuel economy and it is widely used for comparison purposes. Your mileage may vary. I know mine does and it can be either way depending on the driving conditions.

see here:

(performance, etc): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqtEUf84Ew

at the top, or close to it in almost every tested measurement:
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/2b9b90ffff3f7097761045f403ee0866.pdf

and here:
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/sonata/2011/2011-hyundai-sonata-gls-vs-2010-honda-accord-vs-2010-mazda-6-i-touring-comparison-test.html

and here:
http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/hyundai/2011-hyundai-sonata-first-drive-1299.html

look, i'm not saying the Sonata is the best thing since slided bread, but many of the professional reviewers are simply saying what i am about it (which is where i get my info from)...it is "class leading" or close to it in almost every category ranked...no, it doesn't have the "feel" of a sports sedan, but it isn't a sport sedan...it is simply a really good family sedan.

Quote
I thought you are comparing Sonata against other midsizers not through the whole auto spectrum (please ... Impala is on its way to the graveyard). If you do that, then you notice that there is only one and a half cars that use 5AT in this class.

Camry I4 - 6AT
Fusion I4 - 6AT
Malibu I4  - 6AT
Mazda6 I4 - 5AT (6AT on the V6)
Accord I4 - 5AT
Altima I4 - CVT
Legacy - CVT
Kizashi - CVT
you are correct...in the newest vehicles, it does seem that 6 speed automatics are more common now...however, of the 8 vehicles you listed, only 3 of them have it.


Quote
IMO Bluetooth is a convenience feature and it seems like the manufacturers tend to agree since they list it as such on the spec sheets. If you think BT is a safety feature, maybe it is safer not to use a cell phone all together while driving. Talking on the phone is distracting regardless if you use hands-free or not.

bluetooth is a convenience feature, but it is something that promotes safer driving...if your car has bluetooth, you are less likely to talk while holding a cell phone to your ear, which we see on a daily basis, despite it being illegal.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #209 on: September 30, 2010, 08:58:16 pm »
This seems an odd place for protracted debate on the relative merits of the Sonata.

Just sayin'.

Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #210 on: October 01, 2010, 02:50:35 pm »
This seems an odd place for protracted debate on the relative merits of the Sonata.

Just sayin'.

Jaeger

Yes, that was covered thoroughly in the other thread about the Regal in which you posted 50 times on the subject. ::)

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #211 on: October 01, 2010, 03:22:31 pm »
This seems an odd place for protracted debate on the relative merits of the Sonata.

Just sayin'.

Jaeger

Yes, that was covered thoroughly in the other thread about the Regal in which you posted 50 times on the subject. ::)

So happy that you're still hanging on my every word and counting my every post Greg.

Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #212 on: October 01, 2010, 03:42:33 pm »
..POST PARTUM depression is settling in fer the new-borns..................... :stick: :banana:................."BABY ON "BORED"!?"..........

 I'd pick the cute one with the pre-nup............... :D
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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #213 on: October 02, 2010, 05:05:08 pm »
Dealers Pressing Buick for More Regals
Quote
So far, demand for the Regal in the U.S. is outstripping inventory, says Christopher M. Ayotte, marketing manager for the car. Receptivity in the market has been “amazing,” he says.

“Dealers are asking for double what we can provide in their monthly reorders,” Ayotte tells Ward's at the International Motor Press Assn. Test Day event here.

Offline Erik

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #214 on: October 02, 2010, 11:46:52 pm »
Dealers Pressing Buick for More Regals
Quote
So far, demand for the Regal in the U.S. is outstripping inventory, says Christopher M. Ayotte, marketing manager for the car. Receptivity in the market has been “amazing,” he says.

“Dealers are asking for double what we can provide in their monthly reorders,” Ayotte tells Ward's at the International Motor Press Assn. Test Day event here.

Interesting article!

"The Regal enjoys a 40% conquest rate, Ayotte says, with customers coming out of midsize luxury cars from such brands as BMW and Audi.
Regal hit so far, GM says.

“The (Audi) A4 is the aspirational intender,” he says.

Through August, Buick sold 3,878 Regals in the U.S. Almost 80,000 were sold in China last year. Another 150,000, badged the Opel/Vauxhall Insignia, were sold in Europe in 2010.

This year, GM says Insignia sales have reached 250,000 through August."

"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive." - Sir William Lyons

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #215 on: October 03, 2010, 06:59:54 am »
Really interesting indeed - particularly in light of the fact that the source of all that sunshine is the MARKETING MANAGER for the Regal line.  :rofl:  Yep, just fascinating.

When the source of the information is esentially paid to deliver a particular message, a reasonable person will view the content of that message with a commensurate level of skepticism.



Jaeger

« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 07:07:31 am by Jaeger »

CatsEye68

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #216 on: October 03, 2010, 09:27:31 am »
When the source of the information is esentially paid to deliver a particular message, a reasonable person will view the content of that message with a commensurate level of skepticism.

So, can we conclude that you are on the payroll of a certain Asian company? We certainly treat your messages with great skepticism. ::)

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #217 on: October 03, 2010, 10:46:28 am »
When the source of the information is esentially paid to deliver a particular message, a reasonable person will view the content of that message with a commensurate level of skepticism.

So, can we conclude that you are on the payroll of a certain Asian company? We certainly treat your messages with great skepticism. ::)

Yes Greg - me and all the major car magazines - not to mention the authors of the two Regal reviews that called it slow - oh, and everyone else who has ever had the temerity to be critical of any aspect of any domestic product - we are ALL part of the conspiracy and we are all getting stinking rich on the "Asian payroll".  :rofl: :rofl2:

Jaeger

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #218 on: October 03, 2010, 02:43:15 pm »
Really interesting indeed - particularly in light of the fact that the source of all that sunshine is the MARKETING MANAGER for the Regal line.  :rofl:  Yep, just fascinating.

When the source of the information is esentially paid to deliver a particular message, a reasonable person will view the content of that message with a commensurate level of skepticism.



Jaeger



You have absolutely no corroborative evidence to the contrary, so attack the source. ::)
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL
« Reply #219 on: October 03, 2010, 02:47:09 pm »
When the source of the information is esentially paid to deliver a particular message, a reasonable person will view the content of that message with a commensurate level of skepticism.

So, can we conclude that you are on the payroll of a certain Asian company? We certainly treat your messages with great skepticism. ::)

Yes Greg - me and all the major car magazines - not to mention the authors of the two Regal reviews that called it slow - oh, and everyone else who has ever had the temerity to be critical of any aspect of any domestic product - we are ALL part of the conspiracy and we are all getting stinking rich on the "Asian payroll".  :rofl: :rofl2:

Jaeger

Wrong, you are simply being massively obtuse and belligerent. Most of the reviewers have called the base motor "adequate", as have I, and any number of others on here. Most on here object to your denigrating of people who have differing opinions. You are quite free to think whatever you wish.

Please continue to miss the point though, it never gets old. ::)