Topic: Test Drive: 2011 Buick Regal CXL

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The TSX was an UPDATE of the exisiting TSX model. (One that was widley panned as making it bloated, heavier and taking away some of the fun of the first generation)

Aparently those in the grips of a severe domestic persecution complex don't ever see anything negative written about an import brand.  Ever.  Nope - only domestic products are criticized. 

The Regal is a NEW model. One that is supposed ot change the Buick image with its "sportiness. Its not remotley the same thing as the TSX.  When you bring a BRAND new platform to the market the expectation that will be "better" than the competion becuase ..its well new. The manufacturer of the new vehicle has had 2 3 or more years to see the competion so they can come out with something to top them. If you have had 3 years to see that the competion all has over 200 HP how is coming out with the 182 HP Ecotech engine a smart thing? Why start behind?

Agreed.  That was a stupid move.

We are discussing the current regal the Buiick chose to launch and is available. Anything else is just guesswork.

C'mon - it's not hard to figure out why the apologists keep crying "I don't understand why people won't focus on the Turbo!" is it?

Jaeger

Nice strawman. Nobody has said only domestics are criticized, but they certainly seem to be held to a different standard. Nobody is asking you to focus on the turbo, we are saying it will be an alternative to those who do want more power, or a manual transmission. Nobody is asking you to like the car. A few of us like it, some don't. There isn't anything wrong with either position, people have different priorities. The few that like the car are in this thread because, well, we like it and want to discuss it. You don't, you've said your piece a few times now, so why hang around? Most people don't hang around threads on cars they aren't interested in.

What it seems to boil down to is that a few of us don't agree with your opinion, therefore we must be deficient in some manner: apologists, slappies, grampies etc and you are bound and determined to make us see the error of our ways. That's going to be a pretty fruitless endeavour.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I will now depart and leave this to those who still find this vehicle worthy of discussion. 

Jaeger

Oh how I remember that halcyon day. How did it go oh so wrong?

[Jaeger]

Of course, it's perfectly okay to trot out the not-yet-released Regal Turbo to bump up the Buick's sadly lacking performance credibility.  But it's just perposterous to point out that the significnantly more powerful and significantly lighter not-yet-released Sonata Turbo will likely show the Regal it's tail lights all day every day, right? 

Jaeger

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Of course, it's perfectly okay to trot out the not-yet-released Regal Turbo to bump up the Buick's sadly lacking performance credibility.  But it's just perposterous to point out that the significnantly more powerful and significantly lighter not-yet-released Sonata Turbo will likely show the Regal it's tail lights all day every day, right? 

Jaeger

Compare whatever you wish. As has been stated, any one of a number of cars can show the Regal its tail lights. The Sonata is automatic only, so for me it isn't on my list, I enjoy rowing my own. That being said, the Mustang GT will show everything in it's price range its taillights, if that's a priority for you.

[Jaeger]

BTW: How would the manual tranny help with the TSX's handling shortcomings? Just curious...

Just curious as to where you imagined I said a manual transmission would help the TSX's handling in any way.  Take your time - I'm here all week. 

I find manual transmissions more fun to drive than slush boxes as a general rule.  And a LOT more fun than lame slush boxes like the one found in the Buick.  Assuming that auto versus auto the Regal and the TSX were a push, the fact that the TSX came with a manual transmission would make it the more appealing of the two to me, though still not particuarly appealing in its own right.  I say "assuming" because I haven't driven the TSX.  I have driven the Buick and have a hard time believing that the TSX is that dull and lifeless in terms of the driving experience, but it could be.

Jaeger

[Sir Osis of Liver]

BTW: How would the manual tranny help with the TSX's handling shortcomings? Just curious...

Just curious as to where you imagined I said a manual transmission would help the TSX's handling in any way.  Take your time - I'm here all week. 

I find manual transmissions more fun to drive than slush boxes as a general rule.  And a LOT more fun than lame slush boxes like the one found in the Buick.  Assuming that auto versus auto the Regal and the TSX were a push, the fact that the TSX came with a manual transmission would make it the more appealing of the two to me, though still not particuarly appealing in its own right.  I say "assuming" because I haven't driven the TSX.  I have driven the Buick and have a hard time believing that the TSX is that dull and lifeless in terms of the driving experience, but it could be.

Jaeger

I've tried both. The current base TSX is worse in comportment than the Regal. Body rolled more, much more understeer and generally softer.

You are the only person I've ever heard say the Regal's handling was "dull and lifeless".

[rrocket]

This part of the review is spot on:

The Regal uses GM's 2.4-litre Ecotec engine. It's a state-of-the-art, direct-injected four that produces 182 horsepower and 172 pound-feet of torque at 4,900 rpm. Let's get one thing straight -- nobody is going to be bowled over by the motivation this engine delivers. However, it is more than adequate for just about any eventuality except drag racing. Tromp the gas and the Regal runs to 100 kilometres an hour in 8.6 seconds, which is faster than the likes of the Toyota Camry (by almost a full second!) and Honda Accord when they are equipped with a four-cylinder engine.

A second slower?  They must be comparing it to the hybrid!

The 2008 Camry 4 banger (the slightly less powerful 2.4L) does the feat in 8.9 seconds.
http://www.insideline.com/honda/accord/2008/comparison-test-2008-four-cylinder-family-sedans.html

The 2010 2.5L does it in 8.1 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2010_toyota_camry_se-short_take_road_test

[Jaeger]

A second slower?  They must be comparing it to the hybrid!

The 2008 Camry 4 banger (the slightly less powerful 2.4L) does the feat in 8.9 seconds.
http://www.insideline.com/honda/accord/2008/comparison-test-2008-four-cylinder-family-sedans.html

The 2010 2.5L does it in 8.1 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2010_toyota_camry_se-short_take_road_test

Good to know that this premium sports sedan can hold its own against pedestrian base model family sedans.  As long as it doesn't go picking on their V6 big brothers, it shouldn't get too badly embarrased.    It might not want to tangle with a base model Altima, though - I seem to recall CD had that one in the mid-7s.

Jaeger

[rrocket]

^^Correct.  The Altima is the big shooter of the 4 bangers. 0-60 in 7.2 - 7.5

[Sir Osis of Liver]

A second slower?  They must be comparing it to the hybrid!

The 2008 Camry 4 banger (the slightly less powerful 2.4L) does the feat in 8.9 seconds.
http://www.insideline.com/honda/accord/2008/comparison-test-2008-four-cylinder-family-sedans.html

The 2010 2.5L does it in 8.1 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2010_toyota_camry_se-short_take_road_test

Good to know that this premium sports sedan can hold its own against pedestrian base model family sedans.  As long as it doesn't go picking on their V6 big brothers, it shouldn't get too badly embarrased.    It might not want to tangle with a base model Altima, though - I seem to recall CD had that one in the mid-7s.

Jaeger

If 0-60 is a priority then look elsewhere. Other people have different priorities. To me the Altima seemed pretty unrefined, and I could never live with the rubber band CVT.

[Jaeger]

^^Correct.  The Altima is the big shooter of the 4 bangers. 0-60 in 7.2 - 7.5

7.2 eh?  That's quite decently quick for a car that size.  I don't know if the 4-pot sedan is still available with the stick - unfortunately they killed it for the V6 sedan.

Jaeger

[CatsEye68]

One needs to keep in mind that C&D tests Asian makes on a downhill run, while domestics are timed heading in the other direction. ;-)

[Truth be told]

The TSX was an UPDATE of the exisiting TSX model. (One that was widley panned as making it bloated, heavier and taking away some of the fun of the first generation)

Aparently those in the grips of a severe domestic persecution complex don't ever see anything negative written about an import brand.  Ever.  Nope - only domestic products are criticized. 

The Regal is a NEW model. One that is supposed ot change the Buick image with its "sportiness. Its not remotley the same thing as the TSX.  When you bring a BRAND new platform to the market the expectation that will be "better" than the competion becuase ..its well new. The manufacturer of the new vehicle has had 2 3 or more years to see the competion so they can come out with something to top them. If you have had 3 years to see that the competion all has over 200 HP how is coming out with the 182 HP Ecotech engine a smart thing? Why start behind?

Agreed.  That was a stupid move.

We are discussing the current regal the Buiick chose to launch and is available. Anything else is just guesswork.

C'mon - it's not hard to figure out why the apologists keep crying "I don't understand why people won't focus on the Turbo!" is it?

Jaeger

Nice strawman. Nobody has said only domestics are criticized, but they certainly seem to be held to a different standard. Nobody is asking you to focus on the turbo, we are saying it will be an alternative to those who do want more power, or a manual transmission. Nobody is asking you to like the car. A few of us like it, some don't. There isn't anything wrong with either position, people have different priorities. The few that like the car are in this thread because, well, we like it and want to discuss it. You don't, you've said your piece a few times now, so why hang around? Most people don't hang around threads on cars they aren't interested in.

What it seems to boil down to is that a few of us don't agree with your opinion, therefore we must be deficient in some manner: apologists, slappies, grampies etc and you are bound and determined to make us see the error of our ways. That's going to be a pretty fruitless endeavour.

The Buick originates from Europe (Opel rebadge), essentially making it an import.  There goes your theory....truth be told.

[dirtyjeffer]

And your point is?.... 7.5 sec is even better than some 3 Series models, MB, Audi. Does it mean that the Sonata is sportier than those cars too?

hmmm, well...

the base BMW, the 323, is 7.4.
the base MB, the C250, is 8.4.
the base Audi sedan, the A4, is 6.7.

for one, the Sonata isn't billed as a "Sport Sedan", but the Buick is...the problem is, the Buick can't even beat a Sonata...so, if the Buick can't outperform a Sonata, how is it supposed to be called a "Sport Sedan"?

Some magazines posted 0-60 mph times below 7sec for the RAV4 Sport V6. Does that entitle the RAV4 to claim to be a sports car?

no, it is simply a quick compact SUV...of course, Toyota isn't selling the RAV4 V6 as a "Sport Sedan" though, are they?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

And your point is?.... 7.5 sec is even better than some 3 Series models, MB, Audi. Does it mean that the Sonata is sportier than those cars too?

hmmm, well...

the base BMW, the 323, is 7.4.
the base MB, the C250, is 8.4.
the base Audi sedan, the A4, is 6.7.

for one, the Sonata isn't billed as a "Sport Sedan", but the Buick is...the problem is, the Buick can't even beat a Sonata...so, if the Buick can't outperform a Sonata, how is it supposed to be called a "Sport Sedan"?

Some magazines posted 0-60 mph times below 7sec for the RAV4 Sport V6. Does that entitle the RAV4 to claim to be a sports car?

no, it is simply a quick compact SUV...of course, Toyota isn't selling the RAV4 V6 as a "Sport Sedan" though, are they?

A sports sedan isn't just about 0-60. Now if you were talking about muscle cars or pony cars, 0-60 and quarter mile times are a big deal. If 0-60 were critical, the Avalon would be class leading. The fact that the Avalon wallows and floats, and has loads of understeer in corners does disqualify it. The Regal on the other hand, handles very, very well, and does have a very Teutonic way about it.

The TSX has been billed as a sports sedan too. In automatic guise it's about as quick as the Buick, does that mean it's a sham too? What about the Volvo S40 2.4i? It's roughly half a second slower, is it no longer a sports sedan?

[TopGun]

A sports sedan isn't just about 0-60.
.....
The TSX has been billed as a sports sedan too. In automatic guise it's about as quick as the Buick, does that mean it's a sham too?......

Ya!  And get this...there's a car that has a 0 - 60 of 7.5...pathetic!  It doesn't even have 4-seats...or a roof.  MX-5 Miata...ha!...they call that a sports car.  Silly, silly zoom-zoom people.  I hear is the handling is dull and lifeless too.   

[truth be told]

The Opel, a European Branch of GM has been hemorrhaging huge losses for over ten years now, GM has been unsucessful in turning Opel around since then. Even the German Goverment has turned their back to Opel, sniffing imminent company collapse and pretty much labeled it not worth saving.  This Buick is a mere rebadged Opel, Conventional Wisdom dictates that one should look at other brands and not consider this doomed rebadge Buick.  Just look at those of who bought Saturns (rebadge Opels also) that are now stuck with a discontinued brand and savage depreciation, truth be told.....

[Dante]

Just look at those of who bought Saturns (rebadge Opels also) that are now stuck with a discontinued brand and savage depreciation, truth be told.....

Except for the Astra, none of the Saturns were trully "rebadged Opels".

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The Opel, a European Branch of GM has been hemorrhaging huge losses for over ten years now, GM has been unsucessful in turning Opel around since then. Even the German Goverment has turned their back to Opel, sniffing imminent company collapse and pretty much labeled it not worth saving.  This Buick is a mere rebadged Opel, Conventional Wisdom dictates that one should look at other brands and not consider this doomed rebadge Buick.  Just look at those of who bought Saturns (rebadge Opels also) that are now stuck with a discontinued brand and savage depreciation, truth be told.....

That might be relevant if we were discussing corporate financing.

[dirtyjeffer]

Just look at those of who bought Saturns (rebadge Opels also) that are now stuck with a discontinued brand and savage depreciation, truth be told.....

Except for the Astra, none of the Saturns were trully "rebadged Opels".

true, but a lot of their latest vehicles were heavily influenced by Opel models...perhaps that is what he meant.