Topic: A basic fun to drive wagon

[garytam]

Nowadays all the German auto ( and some high end japanese models) are built with so many electronics / technologies features that made the car so expensive and give so much trouble to maintain and to fix in the future, this kills all the fun of driving.

Imagine people can buy a MB 300E or 325I and just keep driving and driving them for ever, since the car is built to last a long time, not much electronic failure to worry about, but this is not the case anymore....

My dream vehicle will be:

1. Using BMW's 3 series chassis
2. Put in a Honda S2000 Motor and drive train, including the 9000 rpm red line and 6 speed manual.
3. Use Honda Civic's minimum electronic, basic air conditioning, manual Civic Si's seat with power windows and locks and keyless remote.
4. Basic safty feature you will fine from a Honda civic.

Basically it is a BMW 323i with S2000 drive train and Civic's interior and without any of the BMW's failure electronic.
 
Will someone buy a vehicle like the above, let say it cost the same as a BMW 323i, starting at around 35K?

This car will not remind you to do oil change, it will not do auto air control, no DVD navigation system, no push start button key less go no lane change warning not even cruise control.

I will buy one for sure, as I know I can just keep driving this for the next 10 years, all I need to do is an oil change very 8000km ....




   

 

[Ice]

To me the gadgets partially make the car. Yes the engine, powertrain and chasis/suspension is huge too but I love the gadgets. It makes long rides and traffic jams more bearable. There used to be simple cars but nowadays there really aren't... not unless you want the basics of transportation in which case a Kia Rio or a Chevy Aveo or a bottom level Ford Focus might be there. Of course those don't have the kind of engine a S2000 has.

Even the S2000 is a complex beast relatively speaking.

The closest to what you're looking for may be the new Acura TSX Wagon but you can bet it'll be tricked out with gadgets galore. On the upside... properly done electronics don't often have failures. No moving parts to fail. Perhaps you had experience with older cars and less robust electronic systems.

[HeliDriver]

Are you talking about wagons, or just cars in general?

If you want Honda reliability, I think Acura is bringing over a TSX wagon soon. But, there's no manual transmission AFAIK and there's no way to get away from the electronics nowadays.

Otherwise, just keep dreaming. I think the market for a 3-Series with no electronics, no luxuries, no automatic transmission and no torque is just one - you!

But, as long as we're dreaming, I'd love it if you could buy a brand new E30 3-Series. Either rebuilt from the factory (like Nissan did with those 240Zs a few years ago), or maybe someone would buy the tooling and rights and start up production again. I'd certainly pay $25,000 for brand new 325is - 2,700 lbs, RWD and that sweet I6. 

Of course, it could never happen with today's safety and emissions regulations.

[Snowman]

Stage 2 2006 WRX Wagon, no other description required.

[ovr50]

It's fine for all of us on here to talk about fun to drive wagons, BUT the NA market has proven that this type of vehicle DOES NOT SELL in NA in sufficient numbers to justify it's existance.

We can boo-hoo about all we want, but the mainstream buyer could care less. And at the end of the day, it is ALWAYS about the money.

[Mike]

Nowadays all the German auto ( and some high end japanese models) are built with so many electronics / technologies features that made the car so expensive and give so much trouble to maintain and to fix in the future, this kills all the fun of driving.

Imagine people can buy a MB 300E or 325I and just keep driving and driving them for ever, since the car is built to last a long time, not much electronic failure to worry about, but this is not the case anymore....

My dream vehicle will be:

1. Using BMW's 3 series chassis
2. Put in a Honda S2000 Motor and drive train, including the 9000 rpm red line and 6 speed manual.
3. Use Honda Civic's minimum electronic, basic air conditioning, manual Civic Si's seat with power windows and locks and keyless remote.
4. Basic safty feature you will fine from a Honda civic.

Basically it is a BMW 323i with S2000 drive train and Civic's interior and without any of the BMW's failure electronic.
 
Will someone buy a vehicle like the above, let say it cost the same as a BMW 323i, starting at around 35K?

This car will not remind you to do oil change, it will not do auto air control, no DVD navigation system, no push start button key less go no lane change warning not even cruise control.

I will buy one for sure, as I know I can just keep driving this for the next 10 years, all I need to do is an oil change very 8000km ....




   

 

That is a good idea, however the S2K motor in the heavy 3 Series chassis would feel very weak.  Think N/A Buick Regal like performance.  Now, what about building a wagon body on the S2K platform?

[SJP]

I have always been a sucker for a smooth I6, so that would have to factor in to my formula. AS much as I hate to admit it, the post about the numbers just not making it happen is totally true. I know some people who would love a nice wagon, but not enough of them to convince anyone to sell them here.

[Snowman]

Now that we are talking interbreeding...how about an RX-8 mated to an STi drive-line..minus the FWD bits..

[gord_boyd]

The reports on new BMW X1 are that it drives more like you want.  It is much lower than a BMW X3
and it is base on 3 Series architecture.

I sometimes imagine when the sedan and the wagon die, and crossovers that are really car-based
(like Nissan Juke based on Versa, or Mini Countryman based on X1 --both with AWD) take over.

Higher up for safety and command-view, but handling quite good and ingress/egress ergonomics
and better storage finalling killing a dieing breed.

[ovr50]

Note the first and last paragraphs regarding "no wagons, please, we are American" in this new Motortrend review on the 2011 X5 35i:

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432552

[ktm525]

Now that we are talking interbreeding...how about an RX-8 mated to an STi drive-line..minus the FWD bits..

I want a LS7 V8 in a Volvo 740 please.

[initial_D]

While searching for a E30 M3 this year, discovered that E30 325is are in hot demand still, good condition cars are worth more than the E36. Some E30 wagon from Euroland did find their way here, low mileage and rust free.

If the Mazda Protege5 had the likes of a Honda VTEC and a transmission from the Miata/RX-8, it would almost be a perfect wagon.

[Ice]

While searching for a E30 M3 this year, discovered that E30 325is are in hot demand still, good condition cars are worth more than the E36. Some E30 wagon from Euroland did find their way here, low mileage and rust free.

If the Mazda Protege5 had the likes of a Honda VTEC and a transmission from the Miata/RX-8, it would almost be a perfect wagon.

Isn't that a hatchback?  In which case a GX Mazda3 Sport would fit the bill nicely for a basic car that doesn't have a lot of electronic gadgets.  I think those even have manual window control and A/C is extra.  Still any modern car...if it were to be EMP'ed would be totally useless. Electronics are everywhere.

[Ice]

i am curious.  is this "NO WAGONS/HATCHES" only an American thing or is it Canadian as well.   in toronto i see wagons and hatches all over downtown.  i love my a4 wagon but i would prefer to have the 3L diesel offered in europe.  i wonder how much of the extra weight is wiring and electronics.   ditch the ESP control    ugh it drives me mental.

I'm pretty sure it's an American thing. I seen tons of the old Focus wagon, we apparently love the microvan (Rondo, Mazda5), and I see Jetta/Golf wagons and even those old Ion LS wagons around from time to time. I'm totally be down with a wagon when the time came. I love hatchbacks too. It just so happened that I ended up with a sedan but that was because I hate the Matrix interior and I couldn't fit into the Mazda3 Sport comfortably.

[tenpenny]

I remember when I bought my first Subaru wagon; I went shopping at what used to be the Subaru dealer, now a Mazda dealer, they said that they dropped Subaru, and 'nobody buys wagons anymore anyway'.

Well, I found my wagon used, and since then I see an awful lot of wagons, including a Mitsubishi Lancer wagon, a few Chevy something, lots of Ford TaurusX, etc etc...I think there's a pretty good market for wagons.  One of my friends, who has a Chrysler Pacifica, was admiring my Outback, he likes wagons.

I think that wagons got that same reaction 20 years ago that minivans have now:  they're a practical family vehicle, and kids who grew up with them want something different.  Probably kids who grew up with minivans will want wagons.

[Marko]

I'd rock a wagon if it wasn't for one thing: chicks don't dig wagons. They just don't make them moist the way a sports coupe or a luxury sedan do.

[tenpenny]

I suppose, if that's your target audience.

[SJP]

chicks don't dig wagons.
Actually, my "chick" loves them(wagons). We can put all our gear in the back and go on a nice long driving vacation. I never had to use a car to impress her, which is a quality I admire.

[mmret]

I guess they could make a 320iT and give it interior niceties equivalent to a 70s Datsun.

[Bullet Blue]

I always read about those Legacy GT wagons being fun to drive.