Topic: Test Drive: 2011 Ford Fiesta SES hatchback

[tpl]

I had not seen those numbers  but they seem reasonable, a 2 second difference between testers.  I'd suspect that the low number was with hot tires on warm asphalt and dropping the clutch exactly at the right point.

[Jaeger]

What are those scary numbers posted by C/D anyway?
9.x is what I would expect from these powertrains, give or take.

As far as Fit Manual goes, I've seen numbers from 8.3s (Motortrend) to 10.2s (Edmunds). I guess testing conditions (vehicle itself, tires, surface, temp, wind, driver, instruments, etc) are big factors here.

I'm not sure if fractions of a second tell any story in this class.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear Ford is making updates to the car's setup next year or even earlier. Enough people have complained that the gear ratios are towards fuel economy versus performance (both manual and auto). Afterall, isn't one of the main factors for this car and class? Personally, I would take performance over a marginal decrease in fuel economy, but that's just me.

1) Never said the numbers were scary.  I said I was surprised at the differences and between the vehicles tested - very similar power and weight across the board.  I expected closer results.  I didn't think any of the times were out of line for the class.
2) it wasn't fractions of a second, it was nearly two full seconds separating worst from first.
3) you're always going to see a variation of test results for different examples of the the same vehicle tested at different locations at different times, by different people..  That's the value of comparison tests - all vehicles tested under the sasme conditions at the same time.

Results: Fit - 8.3 s, Mazda 2 9.1, Fiesta 10.1

How much "modding money" would one have to spend to get a 2 second reduction in 0-60, I wonder.

Also interesting was the point totals for the vehicles tested - and yeah, I get that this isn't anything close to hard science.  But the Fit, with 200 points was followed very closely in second by the Mazda at 197 points.  The Fiesta was a comparatively  distant third at 173 points.

Jaeger

[Dante]

I did not comment on the recent C/D numbers you just posted.
I was looking through various other tests for each car. The 0-60mph times are generally in the 9-10s range with some odd low 10s and high 8s.

Do you have the 60-0 braking, and slalom numbers handy too?

[Jaeger]

Sure - they didn't report slalom, but:

Lane change:  Mazda 2 64.3mph, Fit 61.9, Fiesta 57.5

Braking 70-0: Fiesta 181 ft., Mazda 2 183, Fit 197

1/4 mile:  Fit 16.5s @ 83mph, Mazda 2 16.9/81, Fiesta 17.5/79  (the Fit took all measured acceleration tests - 0-30, 0-100, rolling 5-60 top gear 30-50, 50-70)

Sound level at idle: Fit 36 dba, Mazda 2 41, Fiesta 46  (they were pretty even at WOT and at 70mph cruise)

Observed fuel economy: Fit 34mpg, Mazda 2 33, Fiesta 32

[Dante]

The braking numbers can't be correct unless they tested on wet, snow, ice... you name it.

[tpl]

The Fit lane change and braking are no surprise. It has some really crummy tires as standard ( on our Mk1 Fit)

[dirtyjeffer]

The real problem is there is too much choice in GOOD cars out there now UNDER $23 000, heck I would have looked at the Accent 2 door is cruise was standard:)

Now what was the question?

Brent

exactly...there is a lot of choice...you can pick any of the cars you mentioned, and not be disappointed.

of course, if you can wait a little longer (perhaps another couple of months), you can probably add the new Elantra to the mix, and the new Accent won't be far behind...honestly, if you weren't in a hurry, i would wait...i think the new Elantra is going to do to the compact market what the Sonata has done to the mid-size market (in terms of wow factor, value, quality and design).

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Looks like Ford geared the manual a bit too high. Helps with the EPA figures at least (numbers below are for the manual versions).

Jaeger, does C/D have a gear ratio chart like they used to? Just curious what the numbers are.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Here are the numbers for the automatic versions, just for comparison's sake.

[Jaeger]

The braking numbers can't be correct unless they tested on wet, snow, ice... you name it.

My mistake - 70-0, not 60-0.

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

The real problem is there is too much choice in GOOD cars out there now UNDER $23 000, heck I would have looked at the Accent 2 door is cruise was standard:)

Now what was the question?

Brent

exactly...there is a lot of choice...you can pick any of the cars you mentioned, and not be disappointed.

of course, if you can wait a little longer (perhaps another couple of months), you can probably add the new Elantra to the mix, and the new Accent won't be far behind...honestly, if you weren't in a hurry, i would wait...i think the new Elantra is going to do to the compact market what the Sonata has done to the mid-size market (in terms of wow factor, value, quality and design).

Yep - nice problem to have.

Jaeger

[Dante]

The Fit lane change and braking are no surprise. It has some really crummy tires as standard ( on our Mk1 Fit)

Fit has particularly poor braking performance in virtually any test. Are the stock tires that bad? I don't think any manufacturer sells good quality stock tires since many owners, from many brands complain about them on the forums. Of course, I'm talking pedestrian cars here.

Ideally, the magazines should use identical, good tires when they do these comparisons to remove a significant variable introduced by a temporary part. In this case, no one can say the performance is due to low quality tires.

[Shnak]

Ideally, the magazines should use identical, good tires when they do these comparisons to remove a significant variable introduced by a temporary part. In this case, no one can say the performance is due to low quality tires.

Something most people will keep 4 years isn't a 'temporary part' IMO. It comes with the car, it should be judged as part of the car.

[tpl]

The Fit lane change and braking are no surprise. It has some really crummy tires as standard ( on our Mk1 Fit)

Fit has particularly poor braking performance in virtually any test. Are the stock tires that bad? I don't think any manufacturer sells good quality stock tires since many owners, from many brands complain about them on the forums. Of course, I'm talking pedestrian cars here.

Ideally, the magazines should use identical, good tires when they do these comparisons to remove a significant variable introduced by a temporary part. In this case, no one can say the performance is due to low quality tires.

They are ( one ours) Dunlop's cheapest and in a small section of course.

 

The review (IMO) should review the car as delivered to the vast majority of consumers, as most people won't replace the stock tyres.

Quite right. (AvToller is the only person who admitted to it on the forum.) I'll probably replace these Dunlops next year when they are 4 yrs old  although they will only have done  20,000 kms by then. I will certainly look to see if one can go wider and lower profile without a) spending too large a fortune on fancy wheels. b) making the car look silly c) getting so much tire down that it aquaplanes all over the road.

[Jaeger]

Ideally, the magazines should use identical, good tires when they do these comparisons to remove a significant variable introduced by a temporary part. In this case, no one can say the performance is due to low quality tires.

Something most people will keep 4 years isn't a 'temporary part' IMO. It comes with the car, it should be judged as part of the car.

I absolutely agree.

Jaeger

[bikenut]

after seeing  Sir Osis of Liver  postings for mpg it makes me suspect c/d is biased
i know cycleworld is , often favoring hondas
i don't believe the honda fit bested the others in mpg
i wonder if road and track had a similar comparo
i know i've seen handling test here at canadian driver that compare the fiesta , fit and yaris that showed the fiesta out handles the fit and yaris

i could be mistaken but honda has never had strong braking performance on alot of their cars .
i don't blame the tires because all car co. save cash on them .

[Jaeger]

after seeing  Sir Osis of Liver  postings for mpg it makes me suspect c/d is biased
i know cycleworld is , often favoring hondas
i don't believe the honda fit bested the others in mpg
i wonder if road and track had a similar comparo
i know i've seen handling test here at canadian driver that compare the fiesta , fit and yaris that showed the fiesta out handles the fit and yaris

I think C/D has a bit of a pro-Honda disposition - and if it's a close call a Honda - or a BMW - will probably get the nod in a comparison test.  But deliberately faking mileage results to make the Fit look better seems a little too Oliver Stone to me.  The mileage figures for all three were really close.  If they wanted to falsify results to pump up the Fit, surely they would have "fixed" it's comparatively poor braking performance.

And as for a close call in picking the winner - well, it was a close call between the Honda and the Mazda, but the Ford was a fairly distant third.  I'm not saying that's a conclusive pronouncement for all people - I've maintained all along that with the manual versions of these cars, each is a "winner" it its own right that different people might legitimately prefer. But it was C/D's editorial opinion that the Fit was the best overall.  Any print mag, any web mag, any individual reviewer can be accused of bias.  I'm not really sure it gets us anywhere at the end of the day.

And C/D is not the only mag to pick the Fit over the Fiesta.

Where have you seen measured handling tests for these cars on this forum?  I know James said he found the Fiesta quicker around the track than the Fit, but I don't remember any three way comparison of these vehicles here or any measured performace data.

Jaeger

[MKII]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2011_ford_fiesta_sedan_and_hatchback_u.s._spec-first_drive_review

2011 Ford Fiesta Sedan and Hatchback U.S. Spec - First Drive Review
The U.S.-market Fiesta is as good as its European counterpart. Hallelujah!
BY JON YANCA
Well, we’ve now sampled the U.S. production sedan and five-door hatchback, and we can tell you our Fiesta is just as fun to drive as those sold elsewhere.
Cars in this segment typically have numb, crazy-light steering, but the Fiesta’s electrically boosted setup is nicely weighted and surprisingly talkative. It’s among the best electric steering systems out there, at least among front-wheel-drive cars. Even with the slight tweaks made to U.S. models, the Fiesta you’ll find on a dealer lot in Ohio or Oregon will be as fun to drive as those sold in France or Finland.

Couple USA auto rags are not being sucked into all the hype eg: MotorTrend and some writers at Car&Driver.

If one takes the time to read the list of reviews below its obvious MT and some at C/D either don't get it or just missed something that the majority didn't.

@Ford
About.com
AOL Autos
Ask Patty - Automotive Advice for Women
Auto123.com
Autoblog - First drive
Autoblog - Review road test
Autoblog Green
Autofriends
AutoGuide.com
Automobile Magazine
Auto Rivals - 2011 Ford Fiesta vs 2010 Toyota Yaris
Autosavant
Autoweek
Autoweek - What I drove last night
Bloomberg
Canadian Driver
Canadian Driver - Day-by-Day Review
Car and Driver - 2011 Ford Fiesta - First Drive Review
Car and Driver - 2011 Ford Fiesta SEL - Short Take Road Test
Carguide Canada
Cars.com
Cars.com - Video
CNET - New Fiesta is no siesta
CNET - 2011 Ford Fiesta sedan
Consumer Guide Automotive
Consumer Reports
CrunchGear
Driving.ca
Driving Northwest
Family Car Guide
Detroit Free Press
Detroit Free Press - Ford Fiesta arrives, helps complete lineup
Detroit Free Press - Ford Fiesta wins with looks, value
Edmunds.com - Review
Edmunds.com - Road Test Review
Edmunds Inside Line - Full Test
Edmunds Inside Line - Suspension Walkaround
Examiner.com - Best new economy Car: 2011 Ford Fiesta vs. 2010 Honda Fit vs. 2010 Nissan Versa
Examiner.com - Test drive review
Examiner.com - 2011-Ford Fiesta S sedan
Gearlog
Green Car Reports
HomeTeam performance
Jalopnik
Journal Sentinel Savage on Wheels - Stylish Ford Fiesta handles well and scores on milage
Kelley Blue Book
Kicking Tires - Milage Challenge
Kilometer Magazine
Leftlane News
MarketWatch
Miss Motor Mouth
MotorSpaceNW.com Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Fin
Motor Trend
Motor Trend: Comparison: 2011 Ford Fiesta SES vs 2010 Honda Fit Sport vs 2010 Toyota Yaris vs 2010 Nissan Versa 1.8 SL
Motor Week
MyRide
MSN Autos (Canada)
NADA Guides
Popular Mechanics
Road & Track
Shopper.com
Speed:Sport:Life
Subcompact Culture
Sympatico.ca
TFLcar.com
The College Driver
The Detroit News
The Globe and Mail - The new king of subcompacts
The Globe and Mail - Joy ride
The Smoking Tire
The Truth About Cars - 2011 Ford Fiesta
The Truth About Cars - 2011 Ford Fiesta SES Take Two
The Wall Street Journal
The Washington Post
txGarage
U.S. News & World Report
USA Today
WardsAuto.com
Yahoo! Autos

[Jaeger]

^^^ Were all of those comprison tests with the Fit, Fiesta and Mazda 2?  Were any of them?

Funny how you never linked us to any of the comparison tests where the Fiesta lost.. yet you would start a new thread every time a new colour was announced for the Fiesta.  Why would that be, I wonder?

Funny also how you have a standing list ready of every nice thing ever said about the Fiesta - why would that be, I wonder?

People want to accuse C/D of bias?? 

Jaeger

[bikenut]

mkll -  impressed by your research , have emailed that list to myself to see if there are any worth adding to my favorites

jaeger , those mpg were gov postings of mileage , though we might not be able to duplicate those numbers they are good for comparison - so i discard c/d mileage claims that the fit is gets best mpg of the 3
suspect on the 8 sec times as well

maybe you should quote a less bias source next time 
but you still could have some valid points jaeger -- this one seemed quite curious
quote
yet you would start a new thread every time a new colour was announced for the Fiesta.  Why would that be, I wonder?