Topic: 2011 Kia Rondo

[Shnak]

Likely Kia will cancel it altogether?  The Rondo is to miniminivans what the Mitsubishi Gallant is to midsize.

That is to say, if you can't dominate the market with your select product and the ROI on building a new one that will/could be a game changer doesn't equate, hey - that's OK cause the tooling is paid off anyway and you can at least claim to be in that space.

The Sportage should have come in as a 7 passenger when redesigned and the Rondo coulda been killed off.

Are you insane? I see Rondo's everywhere in the city! Not sure how their sales compare to the Mazda5, but it has to be pretty close. The Rondo is a huge success for Kia.

EDIT: Here are the July sales numbers:

July 2010 / July 2009 / YTD 2010 / YTD 2009
Rondo (I)....................................... 947 / 979 / 4,258 / 5,848
Mazda5 (I)..................................... 730 / 1,017 / 4,751 / 5,709

I'd say the Rondo is doing just fine against it's primary competitor, wouldn't you? But considering a new Mazda5 design is coming soon, Kia better get working on redesigning the Rondo to keep up or it'll be left behind.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Likely Kia will cancel it altogether?  The Rondo is to miniminivans what the Mitsubishi Gallant is to midsize.

That is to say, if you can't dominate the market with your select product and the ROI on building a new one that will/could be a game changer doesn't equate, hey - that's OK cause the tooling is paid off anyway and you can at least claim to be in that space.

The Sportage should have come in as a 7 passenger when redesigned and the Rondo coulda been killed off.

Are you insance? I see Rondo's everywhere in the city! Not sure how their sales compare to the Mazda5, but it has to be pretty close. The Rondo is a huge success for Kia.

Insane?  No.  But my point is that it's success has been based on being a seven passenger and v6 option (I closely cross shopped the Rondo and M5 and I chose the 5) in a market of two.

The competition in 2011 will be up to four options in this segment - three being all-brand-new; and then the Rondo with it's new grill and some options, 5 year old underpinnings and comparatively poor fuel economy to boot. 

Kia's not goning to do well going forward with this product going forward.

[Thinking Out Loud]

I'd say the Rondo is doing just fine against it's primary ONLY competitor, wouldn't you? But considering a new Mazda5 design is coming soon, Kia better get working on redesigning the Rondo to keep up or it'll be left behind.

Fixed that for you. 

We're on the same page tho about a replacement - methinks that they waited 5 years for a mild trim and new grill update means they have nothing in the pipe until at least 2013 earliest.  Milk shake and coke float colours ain't gonna keep buyers coming in.

[Shnak]

Well it remains to be seen how those new competitors will fare against the established Mazda5 and Rondo... until then, yes, Kia has to improve the Rondo to keep up... above all, fuel economy needs to be improved.

And about the 7-seaters / V6 thing, I'd be surprised if more than 20% of Rondos are sold in the 7-seater configuration. And I4 vs V6, I suspect it's like usual, 80-90% sold with the I4. The could drop both of those features and the Rondo would still sell just fine, IMO.

[libraman]

And offer a real manual tranny like everywhere else in the world gets...a  6 speed. 

...and sell 5 or 6 of them. 

I would suggest that there are many more people who bemoan the fact that there is no manual tranny compared to the number who give a hoot whether the auto is a 4 or 5 speed. And, as you say, this vehicle could use better fuel economy. A manual will offer that in real world driving. Not to mention the "fun to drive factor".  And, as some one points out, why offer the larger Sorento and the Sportage with a manual and not the Rondo...especially when it is so offered elsewhere? One cannot even order one with a manual.

I have an 09 with the 4cyl engine (got a good deal on it used).  May trade it for the new 5 when it comes out if it comes with the new family of direct injection engines.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Well it remains to be seen how those new competitors will fare against the established Mazda5 and Rondo... until then, yes, Kia has to improve the Rondo to keep up... above all, fuel economy needs to be improved.

And about the 7-seaters / V6 thing, I'd be surprised if more than 20% of Rondos are sold in the 7-seater configuration. And I4 vs V6, I suspect it's like usual, 80-90% sold with the I4. The could drop both of those features and the Rondo would still sell just fine, IMO.

Being established and being current are two different things.  The Cavalier and Cobalt were both established, neither ever current.

The 5 is established and, and in 2011, all new.  The Rondo is established, but in 2011, dated with a facelift in 2011 ~five years into it's model cycle. 

With all the new stuff coming from Kia, that there is no sense of 'coming soon' on the replacement for the Rondo is bizarre.  Like, it's better to do nothing and announce an all-new Rondo for 2012 than a facelift that is imperceptable to the prior year model. 

Putting braces (new grill) on a T-Rex just means you have a dinosaur with straight teeth. Libraman's a good example of what I'm saying.  Rondo isn't even on his radar two or so years out for new technology.

Kia owners / fans deserve better.

[Shnak]

With all the new stuff coming from Kia, that there is no sense of 'coming soon' on the replacement for the Rondo is bizarre.  Like, it's better to do nothing and announce an all-new Rondo for 2012 than a facelift that is imperceptable to the prior year model. 

You never know with Kia, they might come out of nowhere with an all-new Rondo next year. Afterall, when the first Rondo came out, nobody expected it and it suddenly appeared in showrooms before anyone even knew about it!

[Thinking Out Loud]

With all the new stuff coming from Kia, that there is no sense of 'coming soon' on the replacement for the Rondo is bizarre.  Like, it's better to do nothing and announce an all-new Rondo for 2012 than a facelift that is imperceptable to the prior year model. 

You never know with Kia, they might come out of nowhere with an all-new Rondo next year. Afterall, when the first Rondo came out, nobody expected it and it suddenly appeared in showrooms before anyone even knew about it!

 

[conwelpic]

just got the figures for Rondo sales for August - 880 units, 4th best selling model for Kia Canada only outsold by the Forte, Soul and Rio.  This is 32,560 units sold since its introduction into Canada.
I see lots of Rondo's in the closest city where we shop.

[Ex-airbalancer]

just got the figures for Rondo sales for August - 880 units, 4th best selling model for Kia Canada only outsold by the Forte, Soul and Rio.  This is 32,560 units sold since its introduction into Canada.
I see lots of Rondo's in the closest city where we shop.

I do not see many in Belleville or Kingston

[conwelpic]

just got the figures for Rondo sales for August - 880 units, 4th best selling model for Kia Canada only outsold by the Forte, Soul and Rio.  This is 32,560 units sold since its introduction into Canada.
I see lots of Rondo's in the closest city where we shop.

I do not see many in Belleville or Kingston

can't agree seen many in Belleville (that's were my dealer is located), also in Kingston today and saw quite a few there.

[Thinking Out Loud]

just got the figures for Rondo sales for August - 880 units, 4th best selling model for Kia Canada only outsold by the Forte, Soul and Rio.  This is 32,560 units sold since its introduction into Canada.
I see lots of Rondo's in the closest city where we shop.

I do not see many in Belleville or Kingston

can't agree seen many in Belleville (that's were my dealer is located), also in Kingston today and saw quite a few there.

Well, come 2011, that's gonna change, and not for the better...unless you are suggesting a five year old product will maintain momentum against three band new options ...and you are assuming every Rondo owner comes back for the exact same car. 

But, hey, I have to admit the Cavalier sold in sufficient numbers largely unchanged for over a decade for GM.  Toolings paid for, like the Cavalier, so maybe selling fewer Rondos with a bigger profit margin or heavier discounts against the competition may keep it competitive.

FWIW, there is also the Dodge Journey - which I forgot about - playing in this space now.

Canadians are very lucky to have this many options for the miniminivan space for sure, regardless of how recent the product is. 

[Ice]

Canadian's seem to love these vehicles... I see a lot of either the Mazda5 or the Rondo everywhere.  Always a bunch in my group on the highways. I could see myself in 5 years or so if I had a family at that point thinking about a vehicle in this class. I think Ford is really going to kick things up a notch with the C-Max.

[Shnak]

just got the figures for Rondo sales for August - 880 units, 4th best selling model for Kia Canada only outsold by the Forte, Soul and Rio.  This is 32,560 units sold since its introduction into Canada.
I see lots of Rondo's in the closest city where we shop.

I do not see many in Belleville or Kingston

can't agree seen many in Belleville (that's were my dealer is located), also in Kingston today and saw quite a few there.

Well, come 2011, that's gonna change, and not for the better...unless you are suggesting a five year old product will maintain momentum against three band new options ...and you are assuming every Rondo owner comes back for the exact same car. 

But, hey, I have to admit the Cavalier sold in sufficient numbers largely unchanged for over a decade for GM.  Toolings paid for, like the Cavalier, so maybe selling fewer Rondos with a bigger profit margin or heavier discounts against the competition may keep it competitive.

FWIW, there is also the Dodge Journey - which I forgot about - playing in this space now.

Canadians are very lucky to have this many options for the miniminivan space for sure, regardless of how recent the product is. 

You keep talking about the C-Max so I finally looked it up; it looks way smaller than the Rondo. I'm not even sure I'd cross-shop the two personally.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Canada, if I have read correctly, is getting what in Europe is referred to as the Grand CMax:

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/09q3/2012_ford_grand_c-max-official_photos_and_info/gallery

Likely you have seen the European normal Cmax, which indeed is small.  The Grand Cmax we are getting has sliding doors etc al la the Mazda 5. 

Likely, many people either love or hate sliding vs traditional doors - depending on how anti-minivan their attitude is.  I preferred the convenience of sliding doors on the 5 when I had it, but I also have no issues being 'seen' in a minivan. 

[Shnak]

Nope, I had seen the Grand C-Max; it looks much smaller than the Rondo. Not as long, and certainly not as tall. And as a tall guy, I certainly notice it when a car's roof is too low to my liking.

With that said, the C-Max looks great, and I'll certainly go take a look at it in person to see if my initial reaction to its pictures are founded are not. But it looks small to me.

I looked up the numbers and the Grand C-Max is about 4" shorter than the Rondo, and 2.5" lower than the Rondo. It is interesting that according to the specs I'm reading, the Grand C-Max is about 7" wider than a Rondo. That looks like a huge difference so it might just be a typo. In any case, I'm sure the Grand C-Max will drive much better than the Rondo considering it's a tad smaller and will be about 500 pounds lighter than the Rondo, which really is one of the biggest problems of the Rondo.

Regardless of its smaller size, it's another great entry for our market, and probably one of the first Fords in a VERY long time to peak my interest.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Nope, I had seen the Grand C-Max; it looks much smaller than the Rondo. Not as long, and certainly not as tall. And as a tall guy, I certainly notice it when a car's roof is too low to my liking.

With that said, the C-Max looks great, and I'll certainly go take a look at it in person to see if my initial reaction to its pictures are founded are not. But it looks small to me.

I looked up the numbers and the Grand C-Max is about 4" shorter than the Rondo, and 2.5" lower than the Rondo. It is interesting that according to the specs I'm reading, the Grand C-Max is about 7" wider than a Rondo. That looks like a huge difference so it might just be a typo. In any case, I'm sure the Grand C-Max will drive much better than the Rondo considering it's a tad smaller and will be about 500 pounds lighter than the Rondo, which really is one of the biggest problems of the Rondo.

Regardless of its smaller size, it's another great entry for our market, and probably one of the first Fords in a VERY long time to peak my interest.

 

...and when Kia DOES deliver a new Rondo, it's likely going to reset the bar +1!  Looking forward to it for sure.

[conwelpic]

in August the Rondo is still outselling the Mazda 5 - 880 to 708 units.  Also the Chev HHR sold 187 units for August.

[Thinking Out Loud]

in August the Rondo is still outselling the Mazda 5 - 880 to 708 units.  Also the Chev HHR sold 187 units for August.

The HHR isn't multirow configurable, so it doesn't count.  What were the Dodge Journey's numbers? 

Like I've said - enjoy the ride in 2010 cause come 2011 the Rondo is up against:

A new Mazda 5
A new Ford Grand CMax
A new Chevrolet Orlando
The old but larger Chrysler Journey

Are 2011 Mazda 5's in showroom as yet?  The slowdown could be due to a wait for the NEW model coming. 

[conwelpic]

in August the Rondo is still outselling the Mazda 5 - 880 to 708 units.  Also the Chev HHR sold 187 units for August.

The HHR isn't multirow configurable, so it doesn't count.  What were the Dodge Journey's numbers? 

Like I've said - enjoy the ride in 2010 cause come 2011 the Rondo is up against:

A new Mazda 5
A new Ford Grand CMax
A new Chevrolet Orlando
The old but larger Chrysler Journey

Are 2011 Mazda 5's in showroom as yet?  The slowdown could be due to a wait for the NEW model coming. 

I agree, can't argue with that.  The HHR is competition if you are shopping for only a 5-seater version, it was on my shopping list.  The Dodge Journey is a hot seller with 2141 units sold in August, but I think it could be more at the expense of the Caliber as there sales have really tumbled (250 in August) and heavy discounts helps too.