Topic: 2011 Toyota Avalon XLS; Day 1

[Jaeger]

The Avalon is more Buick than a Buick.

In most respects, yes.  But it's not quite slow enough to be a real Buick.

Jaeger

[rrocket]

Yeah, but your post-Supra perception of sufficiency of horsepower might me a touch skewed.    That said, I've driven the IS250 RWD with the manual transmission and found it kind of underwhelming.

Correct on both counts.

[CatsEye68]

The lacrosse brain (see above) was easily handed, an ended at the bottom of the list...outscored by;
Hyundai Genesis
Honda Accord V6
Subaru Legacy
Toyota Camry V6
Toyota Avalon
VW Passat ACcura TL
Tocoty Camry 4 cyl
Nissa Maxima
Subaru Legacy
Hyndai Azera
honda Accord 4 cyl
Ford Taurus

I don't read Consumer Reports, haven't done so for years. After reading that list, I know why I don't. That is about as ridiculous as anything I have read in ages.

[Joe Consumer]

The lacrosse brain (see above) was easily handed, an ended at the bottom of the list...outscored by;
Hyundai Genesis
Honda Accord V6
Subaru Legacy
Toyota Camry V6
Toyota Avalon
VW Passat ACcura TL
Tocoty Camry 4 cyl
Nissa Maxima
Subaru Legacy
Hyndai Azera
honda Accord 4 cyl
Ford Taurus

I don't read Consumer Reports, haven't done so for years. After reading that list, I know why I don't. That is about as ridiculous as anything I have read in ages.

Spoken like a genuine slappy.

[johngenx]

I won't comment on the Buicks as I haven't driven them.  However, I suppose that 90%+ of the comments pertaining to the Avalon are from people that haven't driven it...

[Ice]

The Corolla XRS?  Meh.

The 2ZZ-GE in the 00-05 Celica/03-06 Matrix XRS/05-06 Corolla XRS is probably the last great engine Toyota's ever made. The new Corolla/Matrix XRS is definitely a meh.

I'd like to point out that the old XRS was definitely something special with a high revving engine. There are quite a few people who really love their previous gen XRS for what it can do given what it is.

My 2009 XRS is not the same car. It's more like a Mazda3 GT. In fact that is very much what it is. A top spec economy car with a bigger engine, fancier rims, and some additional stiffening of the body and suspension versus the regular models. While the 2AZ-FE isn't a high revving engine like what the 2ZZ-GE is... it does have one very practical application that is very fun - it's got quite a bit of torque right off the line and highway on ramps are a blast.

[Baron von Raschke]

Awesome review James   Although I'm not in the target demographic, I would really consider this car if I was living somewhere with a lot less twisties. The highway towards west Vancouver Island would not be kind to this car, but it would soak up the nasty potholes real nice

[Ex-airbalancer]

I won't comment on the Buicks as I haven't driven them.  However, I suppose that 90%+ of the comments pertaining to the Avalon are from people that haven't driven it...

The number is probably 99.9%

[tpl]

I am sure you are right there AirB.   I did actually see an Avalon last week. A little old guy nearly ran me over at a ped crossing. He could hardly see over the wheel... he'd probably graduated from a Buick.

[Jaeger]

I am sure you are right there AirB.   I did actually see an Avalon last week. A little old guy nearly ran me over at a ped crossing. He could hardly see over the wheel... he'd probably graduated from a Buick.

 

Jaeger

[Spec5]

The lacrosse brain (see above) was easily handed, an ended at the bottom of the list...outscored by;
Hyundai Genesis
Honda Accord V6
Subaru Legacy
Toyota Camry V6
Toyota Avalon
VW Passat ACcura TL
Tocoty Camry 4 cyl
Nissa Maxima
Subaru Legacy
Hyndai Azera
honda Accord 4 cyl
Ford Taurus

I don't read Consumer Reports, haven't done so for years. After reading that list, I know why I don't. That is about as ridiculous as anything I have read in ages.

Whats wrong with that list? Its got like every 10 Best car on it. Save maybe for the Azera and maybe the Passat (not sure if its ever been a 10 best car or not).  Any way you cut it all of those vehicles have a much better history and come from a better pedigree than ANY Buick I can ever remember - save maybe the GN/GNXs of the late 80s - definately nothing in the last 10-15 years anyway.

[CatsEye68]

Whats wrong with that list? Its got like every 10 Best car on it.

Any scoring tool that attempts to equate cars like a 4-banger Camry or Legacy with vehicles like the Maxima, Genesis, Lacrosse or Avalon is fundamentally flawed because they do not compete in the same class. CR tests cars like they test toasters. Unfortunately cars are not appliances.

Any way you cut it all of those vehicles have a much better history and come from a better pedigree than ANY Buick I can ever remember - save maybe the GN/GNXs of the late 80s - definately nothing in the last 10-15 years anyway.

Ah yes, the old and time-honored brand heritage of the Hyundai Azera. Riiiight. How foolish of me.    

You have a very short memory. But I can tell there is really no point in arguing with you.

[Truth be told]

Overconfidence, the slappy long game.

The root problem illustrated is a persistent overconfidence of the slappy, a belief despite evidence to the contrary, Consumer Reports, JD Power, Canadian Driver etc. that GM is the best carmaker in the world and will always remain so. When slappies stop believing failure is a possibility and cease making demands from a company in bad need of improvements, and outright declaring the Regal, a failed saturn rebadge, a sports sedan able to compete with Acura, BMW and Audi is foolish and deceiving.  This foolish overconfidence in the day-to-day operation of a business leads to choking in the clutch and bancrupcy.  Slappies, at the end of the day, become frogs in a boiling pot of water:  Not realizing they were getting cooked until it is too late.

[CatsEye68]

Overconfidence, the slappy long game.

The root problem illustrated is a persistent overconfidence of the slappy, a belief despite evidence to the contrary, Consumer Reports, JD Power, Canadian Driver etc. that GM is the best carmaker in the world and will always remain so. When slappies stop believing failure is a possibility and cease making demands from a company in bad need of improvements, and outright declaring the Regal, a failed saturn rebadge, a sports sedan able to compete with Acura, BMW and Audi is foolish and deceiving.  This foolish overconfidence in the day-to-day operation of a business leads to choking in the clutch and bancrupcy.  Slappies, at the end of the day, become frogs in a boiling pot of water:  Not realizing they were getting cooked until it is too late.

You forgot to sign that "Jaeger" as you usually do, Mr. Guest.

Who was talking about the Regal, anyway?

Only Jaeger would bring that up here.

You seem to have a sad fixation on that car, to the point where your incessant arguing and beating of the dead horse led to that thread being locked.

Give it up. We don't need any more Loctite used around here.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Overconfidence, the slappy long game.

The root problem illustrated is a persistent overconfidence of the slappy, a belief despite evidence to the contrary, Consumer Reports, JD Power, Canadian Driver etc. that GM is the best carmaker in the world and will always remain so. When slappies stop believing failure is a possibility and cease making demands from a company in bad need of improvements, and outright declaring the Regal, a failed saturn rebadge, a sports sedan able to compete with Acura, BMW and Audi is foolish and deceiving.  This foolish overconfidence in the day-to-day operation of a business leads to choking in the clutch and bancrupcy.  Slappies, at the end of the day, become frogs in a boiling pot of water:  Not realizing they were getting cooked until it is too late.

You might want to look at the JD Power Brand Rankings again. Buick is one of the highest ranked in their 2010 Vehicle Dependability Study of three year old vehicles.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-#page-anchor

The 2007 LaCrosse is ranked highest in its class, ahead of Accord(#3) and Camry(#5)

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-category/midsize-car/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-#page-anchor

The 2007 Lucerne is second place in its category ahead of the Avalon(#4)

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-category/large-car/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-#page-anchor

As far as sales:

July sales:

Lacrosse 400
Lucerne 157
Regal 115

Avalon 72

7 months:

LaCrosse 2095
Lucerne 1273
Regal 170

Avalon 296

Between the Lucerne and LaCrosse, which overlap the Avalon in price and size, Buick outsells the Avalon by 11 times up until the end of July. The LaCrosse alone has sold a quarter more in July than the Avalon has sold this year. Even the recently introduced and not completely rolled out Regal outsold it last month (the Regal only sold 9 less than the TSX sold last month).


FYI this is an Avalon thread, not a Buick thread.

[toolatecrew]

You might want to cut those Lacrosse sales at least in half for fleet sales.

Having been in both (but not driven one) I would still call the Cross by far the superior car. I was not joking the Avalon is more Buick than Buick. I believe the buyers for the Avalon are literally a dying breed.

[Jaeger]

Much as he did with the Buick, James' review hits the nail on the head with the Avalon:

My week with the Avalon is over, and to be honest, I really enjoyed this vehicle. How could you not? It is quiet, comfortable and easy to drive. Sure, many enthusiasts shun the Avalon, but let’s be realistic about what the average person’s drive to work is day in and day out; the Avalon makes it a pleasure.

To top it off, gas mileage for my week was incredible: I averaged 8.3L/100km. I will admit that number includes a highway trip to calabogie and back – about 200km – but the remainder of my 500 km total was my typical drive, so I was impressed.

In the city I averaged about 9.5L/100km while I was puttering around town, again, excellent for a full-sized car.

Fully-loaded, the Avalon is an excellent bargain: at only $41,100 this is one great package.

Good summary.  Not a car for the enthusiast driver to be sure - but we tend to forget that enthusiast drivers and their preferences do not reflect those of the majority of buyers - particularly in the full size sedan segment.  This is a solid product.  A big softy that needs to make no apologies.

Jaeger

[John]

Overconfidence, the slappy long game.

The root problem illustrated is a persistent overconfidence of the slappy, a belief despite evidence to the contrary, Consumer Reports, JD Power, Canadian Driver etc. that GM is the best carmaker in the world and will always remain so. When slappies stop believing failure is a possibility and cease making demands from a company in bad need of improvements, and outright declaring the Regal, a failed saturn rebadge, a sports sedan able to compete with Acura, BMW and Audi is foolish and deceiving.  This foolish overconfidence in the day-to-day operation of a business leads to choking in the clutch and bancrupcy.  Slappies, at the end of the day, become frogs in a boiling pot of water:  Not realizing they were getting cooked until it is too late.

You forgot to sign that "Jaeger" as you usually do, Mr. Guest.

Who was talking about the Regal, anyway?

Only Jaeger would bring that up here.

You seem to have a sad fixation on that car, to the point where your incessant arguing and beating of the dead horse led to that thread being locked.

Give it up. We don't need any more Loctite used around here.

Ahhh!  Well done slappies...

[John]

Overconfidence, the slappy long game.

The root problem illustrated is a persistent overconfidence of the slappy, a belief despite evidence to the contrary, Consumer Reports, JD Power, Canadian Driver etc. that GM is the best carmaker in the world and will always remain so. When slappies stop believing failure is a possibility and cease making demands from a company in bad need of improvements, and outright declaring the Regal, a failed saturn rebadge, a sports sedan able to compete with Acura, BMW and Audi is foolish and deceiving.  This foolish overconfidence in the day-to-day operation of a business leads to choking in the clutch and bancrupcy.  Slappies, at the end of the day, become frogs in a boiling pot of water:  Not realizing they were getting cooked until it is too late.

You might want to look at the JD Power Brand Rankings again. Buick is one of the highest ranked in their 2010 Vehicle Dependability Study of three year old vehicles.


As far as sales:

July sales:

Lacrosse 400
Lucerne 157
Regal 115

Avalon 72

7 months:

LaCrosse 2095
Lucerne 1273
Regal 170

Avalon 296

Between the Lucerne and LaCrosse, which overlap the Avalon in price and size, Buick outsells the Avalon by 11 times up until the end of July. The LaCrosse alone has sold a quarter more in July than the Avalon has sold this year. Even the recently introduced and not completely rolled out Regal outsold it last month (the Regal only sold 9 less than the TSX sold last month).


FYI this is an Avalon thread, not a Buick thread.

I have been refraining to respond to Mr. O the GM slappy, but here it is...
Go on with it, just buy the damn Grampy car why don't you.  The Lacross is nothing but a rebadged Malibu, a rental car mainstay.  The Regal, well truth be told already said it, a left over Saturn.  In 35 years, I'll be 70, then can consider a Grampy Buick or the Avalon, till then, senior Mr. O can be the 401 buyer.

[hemusbull]

Someone previously said Avalon is more Buick than... Buick! I just wish to add  Avalon is too musch Buick so it's customers doesn't accept it as one...it's toooo good made to be a real Buick!