Topic: 2011 Buick Regal CXL; Day 1

[dirtyjeffer]

My purchase won't likely be until the spring.  By then, I'll have a pretty good idea how the Regal Turbo stacks up against the Sonata Turbo.

Jaeger

mine as well...but i really don't expect to see the Regal Turbo and the Sonata Turbo being much of a "comparison"...the Regal Turbo might just beat the 2.4L NA Sonata...i honestly think the Sonata Turbo will bury the Regal Turbo as it has about 50 more HP and I think weighs less too.

that said, the Regal is a nice car, i just think it could have been better...why they didn't offer a better powertrain, considering the ones available, is beyond rational thinking.

an interesting note...when you go to the Hyundai website, you can select the "compare" feature and choose ANY car you wish to compare it against (using the Sonata as an example, and you can select the trim level, of course)...in GM's website, when you select the Regal and use THEIR comparison tool, you can only select about 5 cars to compare it against, and surprisingly (or not, depending on your viewpoint), the Sonata is NOT there...when you choose the 2011 Regal, you can only select the following cars for comparison:

2010 Acura TSX (M6)
2010 Lexus ES 350
2010 Lincoln MKZ
2010 Nissan Altima 3.5 SR (CVT)
2010 VW Passat 2.0T Comfortline (M6)

that's it.

of course, if i made a comparison chart, and cherry picked my "competitors", i could probably stack the deck quite nicely too...fortunately, for the educated shopper, they can simply use Hyundai's website, pick a Sonata (even if they don't want one) and chose whatever car they want in there, including a Regal...it is certainly a more "honest" way of doing it.

and since the Sonata and Regal are only $1000 apart (the Regal being $1000 more than the top level Limited w Nav Sonata), comparing the two is reasonable...of course, when you finish optioning out the Regal so it is similarly equipped to the top level Sonata, the price difference will be more than $1000...as well, many reviewers have stated that the interior of the Sonata is easily one step above the car and is very comparable with cars costing $10,000 more...so i don't buy the debate that the Buick is "higher end".

[Dante]

I wonder who would buy a Passat, TSX or S60 going forward since there is a Sonata for $10K+ less?

[tpl]

Me.    I'd buy a Passat or possibly an S60 ( unlikely tho'). I probably wouldn't look at a TSX nor a Sonata and it would not occur to me to go into a Buick store. 

Everyone to their own.

[Stewart Warner]

i honestly think the Sonata Turbo will bury the Regal Turbo as it has about 50 more HP and I think weighs less too.

The only way to be sure is with actual testing. We all remember Hyundai's notorious overstating of HP ratings debacle from a couple of years back. I dunno if you can trust them.

[Jaeger]

I wonder who would buy a Passat, TSX or S60 going forward since there is a Sonata for $10K+ less?

I might.  I test drove a  Passat 2.0T and came away VERY impressed.  The Sonata Turbo will be much more powerful to be sure, but it won't offer a manual transmission - which is a serious plus in favour of the Passat, at least for me.  And the Passat interior is a definite cut above. And perhaps most importantly, unlike the Buick Sluggal, it was actually fun to drive. Don't get me wrong - I could hardly be more impressed with the Sonata, and it is a leading candidate.  But it's not the only choice out there.  A black on black Passat CC would be no hardship at all and the base model with stick represents a very good value.

Jaeger

[Dante]

But a loaded Passat would still be $10K more than a fully loaded Sonata (2.4L), while offering similar performance numbers on the paper.
Isn't this your issue with the Regal Turbo (starts loaded already at $35K)?

[Jaeger]

But a loaded Passat would still be $10K more than a fully loaded Sonata (2.4L), while offering similar performance numbers on the paper.
Isn't this your issue with the Regal Turbo (starts loaded already at $35K)?

Who said I had to get a loaded Passat?  The base model suits me just fine.  Yes, it's still more money than a Sonata - which, frankly, is going to win most dollar for value comparisons.  But I can get a stick with a better level of equipment in the Passat than in the Soanata, which takes away even heated seats if you want to choose the manual transmission. My issue with the Regal Turbo isn't price in absolute terms, it's the price / performance ratio.  Specifically, it's the lame motor and dullsville driving experience - two issues I don't have with the Passat CC 2.0T with a stick.

The first question I ask is "Is this a car I could live with for 4 or 5 years?"  For the Passat, the answer is an unequicocal yes - with lingering concerns about reliability.  With a base Sonata, the answer is yes, but with lingering concerns about the spartan equipment level.  With a loaded Sonata, the answer is yes, but with lingering concerns about long term happiness in the absence of a manual transmission.  With a Buick Sluggal, the answer is NO.  But of the cars that are possibilities, it comes down to the one tha will make me happiest over the long term that remains in the budget.  And the budget is anywhere from base Sonata money to about $40k before taxes.  The thing that tickles me about the base Sonata is that I would NEVER have dreamed that I could find a car for that money that I liked well enough to buy.

Jaeger

[CatsEye68]

Come on guys make it 200 posts.   

Jaeger is doing his part. He's past 35 now. He might hit 200 all by himself.

[Jaeger]

Come on guys make it 200 posts.   

Jaeger is doing his part. He's past 35 now. He might hit 200 all by himself.

Did you have something to contribute to the thread, or are you still simply obsessing over my posts?

Jaeger

[TopGun]

But a loaded Passat would still be $10K more than a fully loaded Sonata (2.4L), while offering similar performance numbers on the paper.
Isn't this your issue with the Regal Turbo (starts loaded already at $35K)?

Why would anyone buy anything other than the Sonata...unless they're getting a Genesis of course.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Who said I had to get a loaded Passat?  The base model suits me just fine.  Yes, it's still more money than a Sonata - which, frankly, is going to win most dollar for value comparisons.  But I can get a stick with a better level of equipment in the Passat than in the Soanata, which takes away even heated seats if you want to choose the manual transmission. My issue with the Regal Turbo isn't price in absolute terms, it's the price / performance ratio.  Specifically, it's the lame motor and dullsville driving experience - two issues I don't have with the Passat CC 2.0T with a stick.

The first question I ask is "Is this a car I could live with for 4 or 5 years?"  For the Passat, the answer is an unequicocal yes - with lingering concerns about reliability.  With a base Sonata, the answer is yes, but with lingering concerns about the spartan equipment level.  With a loaded Sonata, the answer is yes, but with lingering concerns about long term happiness in the absence of a manual transmission.  With a Buick Sluggal, the answer is NO.  But of the cars that are possibilities, it comes down to the one tha will make me happiest over the long term that remains in the budget.  And the budget is anywhere from base Sonata money to about $40k before taxes.  The thing that tickles me about the base Sonata is that I would NEVER have dreamed that I could find a car for that money that I liked well enough to buy.

Jaeger

By these narrow criteria, no one would ever buy a 128i or 135i, because the Mustange GT pulverizes it in outright performance for similar money. Of course people do buy them, because 0-60 isn't the only factor in measuring a car's worth.

[rrocket]

By these narrow criteria, no one would ever buy a 128i or 135i, because the Mustange GT pulverizes it in outright performance for similar money. Of course people do buy them, because 0-60 isn't the only factor in measuring a car's worth.

Yea...Snob Appeal....

[Dante]

My issue with the Regal Turbo isn't price in absolute terms, it's the price / performance ratio.  Specifically, it's the lame motor and dullsville driving experience - two issues I don't have with the Passat CC 2.0T with a stick.

Here it is again...This is a confusion you've always made (on purpose or not - I don't know) between the base 2.4L and the 2.0T. How is the the price/performance ratio (and I would add features) worst than Passat? How do you know the 2.0T engined model is "lame" and the driving experince is "dullsville"? This particular model (Turbo) is not even available in the dealerships yet (although the prices and specs are available) and the auto journalists that drove it during the press events gave it quite good reviews. Even on the paper it looks very competitive with the Passat (and TSX).

 

[Jaeger]

Who said I had to get a loaded Passat?  The base model suits me just fine.  Yes, it's still more money than a Sonata - which, frankly, is going to win most dollar for value comparisons.  But I can get a stick with a better level of equipment in the Passat than in the Soanata, which takes away even heated seats if you want to choose the manual transmission. My issue with the Regal Turbo isn't price in absolute terms, it's the price / performance ratio.  Specifically, it's the lame motor and dullsville driving experience - two issues I don't have with the Passat CC 2.0T with a stick.

The first question I ask is "Is this a car I could live with for 4 or 5 years?"  For the Passat, the answer is an unequicocal yes - with lingering concerns about reliability.  With a base Sonata, the answer is yes, but with lingering concerns about the spartan equipment level.  With a loaded Sonata, the answer is yes, but with lingering concerns about long term happiness in the absence of a manual transmission.  With a Buick Sluggal, the answer is NO.  But of the cars that are possibilities, it comes down to the one tha will make me happiest over the long term that remains in the budget.  And the budget is anywhere from base Sonata money to about $40k before taxes.  The thing that tickles me about the base Sonata is that I would NEVER have dreamed that I could find a car for that money that I liked well enough to buy.

Jaeger

By these narrow criteria, no one would ever buy a 128i or 135i, because the Mustange GT pulverizes it in outright performance for similar money. Of course people do buy them, because 0-60 isn't the only factor in measuring a car's worth.

Neither a 135i nor a 128i are dead boring, soul-destroying, lifeless transportation appliances - regardless of the fact that there may exist something both faster and cheaper.  Their problem is fugliness.

I don't see how my criteria are "narrow".  I want a reasonably stylish, spacious and sporty sedan that I actually enjoy driving.  The normally aspirated Buick doesn't meaure up.  The turbo manual transmission probably would.  Why do you find this so terribly objectionable?

Jaeger

[rrocket]

^^Yea...no kidding.  I found the Lexus IS250 not to my liking AT ALL (214HP engine is weak!!), but rather enjoy the IS350 (306+HP) and with the Sport Package, the suspension, and brakes and handling are all top notch.

[Jaeger]

My issue with the Regal Turbo isn't price in absolute terms, it's the price / performance ratio.  Specifically, it's the lame motor and dullsville driving experience - two issues I don't have with the Passat CC 2.0T with a stick.

Here it is again...This is a confusion you've always made (on purpose or not - I don't know) between the base 2.4L and the 2.0T. How is the the price/performance ratio (and I would add features) worst than Passat? How do you know the 2.0T engined model is "lame" and the driving experince is "dullsville"? This particular model (Turbo) is not even available in the dealerships yet (although the prices and specs are available) and the auto journalists that drove it during the press events gave it quite good reviews. Even on the paper it looks very competitive with the Passat (and TSX).

Well, yes, I'm definitlely confused now. 

As between a 2.0T Passat with manual transmission and a normally aspirated Regal, the Passat is way more fun to drive.  The Buick is lame and dullsville.
As between a 2.0T Passat with manual transmision and a base Sonata 2.4l with manual transmission- the Passat is a bit more fun to drive (that turbo is pleasingly torquey) offers a nicer interior and more options that can be added.  Yes, it's more money.
As between the 2.0T Passat and 2.ot Sonata - how the hell would I know - I haven't driven that model and as far as I know they are not on dealer lots.  But I DO  know the turbo Sonata WON'T be available with a manual transmission and I also DO know that this is kind of an important issue for me.  Not deal-breaking in and of itself, but important.

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

^^Yea...no kidding.  I found the Lexus IS250 not to my liking AT ALL (214HP engine is weak!!), but rather enjoy the IS350 (306+HP).

Eggs  Ackley.

Jaeger

[CatsEye68]

Did you have something to contribute to the thread, or are you still simply obsessing over my posts?

Hardly obsessing. Just curious as to how many times someone can repeat the same tired old line over and over. C'mon, make it 40. Just one more to go. I know you can do it.

[rrocket]

Did you have something to contribute to the thread, or are you still simply obsessing over my posts?

Hardly obsessing. Just curious as to how many times someone can repeat the same tired old line over and over. C'mon, make it 40. Just one more to go. I know you can do it.

Ah yes....something you've NEVER been guilty of.....

[dirtyjeffer]

Me.    I'd buy a Passat or possibly an S60 ( unlikely tho'). I probably wouldn't look at a TSX nor a Sonata and it would not occur to me to go into a Buick store. 

Everyone to their own.

i love the Passat CC...i do...however, what i don't like is the fact you need to use Premium fuel, which you do on most Turbocharged cars...however, the new Sonata 2.0T, you can use regular gas...that is a significant savings...as well, it only suffers a 1 MPG penalty vs the NA 2.4L engine...now, i don't know what the pricing for the 2.0T will be like, but it would make sense that there would be a $3k-$4k premium (and perhaps some other slightly different equipment (suspension, etc)...a Passat CC, equipped with Nav and Premium sound (and auto transmission) is $39k...that is probably about $4-$5k more than the Sonata 2.0T will be, and it still doesn't offer a lot of the features the Sonata has (leather seats vs leatherette, no smartKey system, etc).

yes, i would probably really like the CC, or a C300 Mercedes or a 335i BMW...but the Sonata gives so much, for such a great price, and it is still a nice car to drive...it's tough to beat.

here, have fun:

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/competitive-comparisons/