Topic: 2011 Buick Regal CXL; Day 1

[diceman]

Do you think the Sonata is better than the Malibu?

I haven't driven the Malibu, but based on a comparison of comparably equipped normally aspirated models, I would pick the Sonata over the Regal straight-up independent of price.  And of course, the price difference is substantial -in the Sonata's favour.  The Buick is a solid effort, but on my plus / minus list there are a bunch more plusses on the Sonata side.

Now, a 6-speed manual Buick Turbo versus an auto Sonata Turbo?  I'll reserve judgment on that until I have driven both of those.  Since the Buick's biggest disappointment rests under the hood, a healthy bump in horsepower and en even healthier bump in torque should help considerably.  But of course, it might well be priced deep into Hyundai Genesis territory...

Jaeger

Depends what you're buying. The Regal is way above the Sonata in refinement. So would you buy a Sonata over a Lexus is250 with 205 hp for 35k??

[bikenut]

my brother had a malibu hybrid , does that count  ? he liked the malibu alot but he is much happier with his ford fusion hybrid .
and now has his eyes on the upcoming sonata hybrid ( higher mpg highway )
i don't buy midsize cars , so no

 came across this interesting tid bit just now - that all cars should have
http://www.newspress.co.uk/public/ViewPressRelease.aspx?pr=23923

[Jaeger]

Depends what you're buying. The Regal is way above the Sonata in refinement. So would you buy a Sonata over a Lexus is250 with 205 hp for 35k??

Well, what I'm buying is at least a reasonably stylish and moderately sporty midsize sedan. The Buick is above the Sonata in refinement, but I wouldn't say it's way above.  And making a more price-balanced comparison, it sure as heck isn't above a Hyundai Genesis in refinement.  In fact, the Genesis blows it away in almost every respect for just a couple thou extra.

Which brings me back to the main problem I have with forecasting success for the Regal: price.  It gets squeezed hard from above and below by some very strong competition.

I don't find the rear seat room in the IS250 adequate for my needs, so it's not in the running.

Jaeger

[diceman]

Depends what you're buying. The Regal is way above the Sonata in refinement. So would you buy a Sonata over a Lexus is250 with 205 hp for 35k??

Well, what I'm buying is at least a reasonably stylish and moderately sporty midsize sedan. The Buick is above the Sonata in refinement, but I wouldn't say it's way above.  And making a more price-balanced comparison, it sure as heck isn't above a Hyundai Genesis in refinement.  In fact, the Genesis blows it away in almost every respect for just a couple thou extra.

Which brings me back to the main problem I have with forecasting success for the Regal: price.  It gets squeezed hard from above and below by some very strong competition.

I don't find the rear seat room in the IS250 adequate for my needs, so it's not in the running.

Jaeger

I agree totally. My biggest concern or gripe as the case may be is the price of the Regal. BUT, it is competing with the is250 and TSX. It's like a Camry v6 competing with an is250, specialized classes.

[CatsEye68]

if buick wanted to attract younger buyers , they already have their name going against them --
( except for their high rankings in reliability )
, why call it a regal  ?   ( excluding the black turbo many years ago ) regal isen't a name that will inspire the young today to buy , it just means an old mans car name to them , why should they even look at it ?
they are not going to be bragging to their friends , hey , i just bought a regal !!!!

why didn't buick just name it something else instead of regal   ?  using a name that might appeal to a younger crowd .
better still ,  call it an opel instead of a buick , and lend a little european mystery to it , maybe a sportier one too .
that might have a better chance of attracting younger buyers ,---- like james

The name is meaningless. Look at Hyundai. As few as 10 years ago it was considered a cheap, disposable, not very desirable car. Now some here speak about it in mythological terms, just like they used to speak about Toyota and Honda. Names are never as bad -- or as good -- as some would have you believe. It alll comes down to the vehicle itself.

[Jaeger]

I agree totally. My biggest concern or gripe as the case may be is the price of the Regal. BUT, it is competing with the is250 and TSX. It's like a Camry v6 competing with an is250, specialized classes.

A car competes against whatever vehicles consumers cross-shop - not what the manufacturer says it competes against.  Look at all the Sonata comparisons in this thread alone. I'm certainly cross-shopping the two.  The pricing of the Buick puts it up against both loaded-up mainstream midsize sedans and more entry level "near luxury" vehicles.  I agree that a smarter approach would have been to make the turbo motor standard and price it more aggressively in order to present a compelling price/performance ratio.

I know I come across as sounding negative on the Regal and I don't mean to - it's not a crappy car, it's a very good car.  I'm just not sure it's a compelling value.

Jaeger

[bikenut]

cats eye , was going to dig up info on market research for car names importance to hyundai's fast rise
but then said why bother , so after punching in hyundai market share i stopped .
you have already made up your mind , but since i went to a little effort , read this
http://www.solarfeeds.com/the-green-market-blog/13803-hyundais-fuel-efficiency-leadership-and-growing-market-share

[rrocket]

cats eye , was going to dig up info on market research for car names importance to hyundai's fast rise
but then said why bother , so after punching in hyundai market share i stopped .
you have already made up your mind , but since i went to a little effort , read this
http://www.solarfeeds.com/the-green-market-blog/13803-hyundais-fuel-efficiency-leadership-and-growing-market-share

Yea...don't bother.  Since you're kinda new, you don't know that Cat's Eye slathers his body with GM Butter Body Cream every morning.....

[toolatecrew]

if buick wanted to attract younger buyers , they already have their name going against them --
( except for their high rankings in reliability )
, why call it a regal  ?   ( excluding the black turbo many years ago ) regal isen't a name that will inspire the young today to buy , it just means an old mans car name to them , why should they even look at it ?
they are not going to be bragging to their friends , hey , i just bought a regal !!!!

why didn't buick just name it something else instead of regal   ?  using a name that might appeal to a younger crowd .
better still ,  call it an opel instead of a buick , and lend a little european mystery to it , maybe a sportier one too .
that might have a better chance of attracting younger buyers ,---- like james

The name is meaningless. Look at Hyundai. As few as 10 years ago it was considered a cheap, disposable, not very desirable car. Now some here speak about it in mythological terms, just like they used to speak about Toyota and Honda. Names are never as bad -- or as good -- as some would have you believe. It alll comes down to the vehicle itself.

Then why isn't Hyundai naming their new small car the Pony? To same names are meaningless if foolish. GM certainly doesn't think they are meaningless. They remamed the Lecrosse Allure in Canada simply becuase a small portion of the population (Quebec) considered it slang for somethijg undesirable.

They obviously didn't pick Regal out of a hat they used a name that was at one time associated with the "sporty" Buick.

Yes the name matters very much

[dougjp]

We may be over exaggerating the reasons, pros and cons of retaining the Regal name.

It may be as simple as (a) the aging population average and the demographic coming closer to what traditionally Buick represents, therefore keep a familiar name regardless of past vehicles, (b) GM arrogance thinking the Regal name represents a past filled with the pinnacle of automotive excellence and customer appreciation     , (c) don't take a chance on change, leave the name alone and improve the car underneath it, (d) laziness.

[toolatecrew]

Its a bit tricky comparing the Regal. If you go to the website you can try to compare to some of the "suggested" competitiors but it appears you can only compare a base CXL . The Buick ponly comes with Auto standard and many competitors with Manual. To get a sunroof (which competiors like the TSX have standard) requires going up a couple of thousand to a hugher model.

I think as others have pointed out the real achilles heel here is the engine/price. Most if not all the competiors offer a superior much more powerful engine for a comperable price. From VW's 2.0T to Acura's 200 hp 4cyl to the Volvo S40 T5 (227 HP) Yes there may be some features the Buick has (18 inch wheels) that you would need to spend more money to get in the competitors but in the entry level luxury segment everyone else offers a "premium" engine in their base model while Buick esantially offers an economy car engine.

I'm becoming more convinced my inital thought was right. There is nothing wrong with eventually offering the Ecotech engine..but they should have realeased the Turbo first and probaly at a price closer to 32K (base price of a TSX or Passat) with the Manual. The reviews of the Turbo would generate more positive first impression, they would be offering a "more poweful" car with equal or better features fpor a better price. Instead they are seen as offering less engine for the same money.

[bikenut]

doug , i don't think so,  if their primary aim was to attract a younger audience .

but obviously it wasn't , they want to hold on to those olders buyers , they need them , and didn't want to alienate them with a name change , and at the same time attract new younger buyers , problem is ,they can't do both , AS FAR AS I KNOW -  for those who want to jump in to contradict that statement

[CatsEye68]

cats eye , was going to dig up info on market research for car names importance to hyundai's fast rise
but then said why bother , so after punching in hyundai market share i stopped .
you have already made up your mind , but since i went to a little effort , read this
http://www.solarfeeds.com/the-green-market-blog/13803-hyundais-fuel-efficiency-leadership-and-growing-market-share

A pretty pedestrian quote, filled with marketing hype and PR platitudes. Most any automaker could say those same things and not be lying about it. Nothing to see here, move along, sir.

Yea...don't bother.  Since you're kinda new, you don't know that Cat's Eye slathers his body with GM Butter Body Cream every morning.....

Since you bring it up... in that case, you must you bathe in Asian-flavored marinade each day and sleep under a blanket of seaweed.  

[bikenut]

ha,ha,ha  get aload of this
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/20/report-gm-poaches-hyundai-marketing-vp-chris-perry-to-head-chev/

[Jaeger]

Yea...don't bother.  Since you're kinda new, you don't know that Cat's Eye slathers his body with GM Butter Body Cream every morning.....

  Damn - just sprayed my coffee.... 

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

I’m not sure how this engine and transmission combination can be deemed sporty, though. It really is a letdown compared to what seems like a really well-done chassis. The six-speed automatic shifts slowly and manual mode is worse than just letting it chose gears on its own.

The 2.4-litre engine works fine but there is nothing exciting to talk about here. It moves the car’s weight adequately but doesn’t feel peppy or eager in any way.

BINGO!  Of course, when I said essentially the same thing I got raked over the coals by the GM Slappies for "bashing" the Regal.  I wonder if they'll be quite so caustic now?

Jaeger

[toolatecrew]

So does the Regal feel like a “sporty” sports sedan? My tester certainly doesn’t — it feels like a sedan, yes, but there is no eagerness or desire to rip up the asphalt and have a good time. The Regal just wants to get you to your destination and get you home without taking the long route, which is too bad

This is why I question Buicks plan. My father actually quite liked the Regal when he drove it. Thought it was the right size, quiet etc. He's 70 years old. If you are trying to bring new younger buyers and change your image with a "Sporty" sedan why launch with a not sporty powetrain that appeals to 70 year olds (all due respect to my Dad but he's not a sporty guy)

[diceman]

I’m not sure how this engine and transmission combination can be deemed sporty, though. It really is a letdown compared to what seems like a really well-done chassis. The six-speed automatic shifts slowly and manual mode is worse than just letting it chose gears on its own.

The 2.4-litre engine works fine but there is nothing exciting to talk about here. It moves the car’s weight adequately but doesn’t feel peppy or eager in any way.

BINGO!  Of course, when I said essentially the same thing I got raked over the coals by the GM Slappies for "bashing" the Regal.  I wonder if they'll be quite so caustic now?

Jaeger

Not by this GM slappy. I haven't driven the Regal yet but but I woud say this engine is not what should be in this car considering the price and where it is positioned.

[Jaeger]

Not by this GM slappy. I haven't driven the Regal yet but but I woud say this engine is not what should be in this car considering the price and where it is positioned.

Nope, not you.  They know who they are - and they are awfully quiet at the moment. 

When you're trying to gain market share in a segment where you have had, essentially, zero representation in the contemporary context you better put your BEST foot forward right out of the gate.  Add grandpa's model later, but lead with an entry that has at least some credible hope of being accepted as at least a moderately sporty sedan.  This failure to grasp the obvious is, unfortunately, classic GM.  Eeven with a good product, they can find innovative ways to $%#@ things up.

Jaeger

[bikenut]

diceman , you just said you hadn't driven the regal
but in a previous post you said  " i've driven them all ,have you ? "

so are you saying , i have driven all the midsize sedans ,- only
or were you simply lying