Topic: 2011 Buick Regal CXL; Day 1

[Sir Osis of Liver]

By Buick’s math, before the Regal came along, the nameplate’s lineup of two rather large sedans and one behemoth ute competed in segments that comprised just 14 percent of the U.S. market, sales-wise. Come 2012, after a Chevy Cruze–based compact sedan and a small crossover are added, that figure will leap to 46 percent.

Even so, last year Buick astonishingly outsold Audi, Infiniti, and Lincoln in the U.S. To date, which includes no significant sales of the appealing Regal, Buick’s numbers are trending higher than all those, plus Acura. Surprising? You bet. Deserved? More than ever.

They obviously are on to something, 0-60 times notwithstanding.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

How many of those were fleet sales?

The margin was wide enough not to affect the ranking.

[dirtyjeffer]

In that case, what makes the Benz worth so much more than the Sonata?

A rhetorical question.

it probably isn't (in terms of value), which is what we have been talking about here.

i like the Mercedes because i like the way they look (inside and out)...it also seems to have a sense of "class" and "success" tied to it...you feel special in it...that's why i like it.

that said, a similarly equipped C250 to the Sonata is over $14,000 more (and still gives you "Artico Leather" instead of actual real soft leather, which can only be optioned in higher models)...is it worth $14,000 more??...i suppose that depends on your income, how much time you spend in the car what you think about your car.

[bikenut]

doug
my older brother is 68 now , i respect him , he has owned around 65 cars , he had a tiboron , one with a chip in it from the factory , he had to wait longer, to get it
i wasn't impressed - so i knock other cars - so what , maybe i don't play well with others

but i must tell you , in all honesty , i do apologize if you feel i have offended your age group , i often speak with out thinking , which has got me in alot of trouble over the years - have even lost 12 jobs over it . i was typing out of anger re the post you were talking about and did not take my own advice  - so quilty as charged

re typing , i can type quite quickly with my middle finger on my right hand , if i stop to get my other hand involved  it really slows up my pace which i'm not willing to do - so those who complain about my typing , bite me

[Thinking Out Loud]

In that case, what makes the Benz worth so much more than the Sonata?

A rhetorical question.

it probably isn't (in terms of value), which is what we have been talking about here.

i like the Mercedes because i like the way they look (inside and out)...it also seems to have a sense of "class" and "success" tied to it...you feel special in it...that's why i like it.

that said, a similarly equipped C250 to the Sonata is over $14,000 more (and still gives you "Artico Leather" instead of actual real soft leather, which can only be optioned in higher models)...is it worth $14,000 more??...i suppose that depends on your income, how much time you spend in the car what you think about your car.

There are 'driveability' differences in rear vs front wheel drive...and some like to 'Brag about their Benz'. In other posts I believe it's been suggested that most who buy these cars are people looking to promote their financial status.

Value isn't part of their car buying decision in that case.

WHY NO ONE HAS LEARNED FROM HYUNDAI'S VALUE PROPOSITION IN PRICING....is beyond me.  The only thing stopping Hyundai is THEIR inability to lean from Toy-Niss-Hon:  They need an new brand for these Genesis/Eqqus prodicts.  

Buick needs to be a BETTER value propostion to it's competition.

VW just FINALLY thinks it figured out out to do volume with it's new Jetta against the Corolla and Civic.  

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Buick needs to be a BETTER value propostion to it's competition.

Buick already outsells Audi, Infiniti, and Lincoln. It looks like it will out sell Acura this year. I think they need to continue to upgrade their products, but hold the line on their aggressive pricing.

Let Chevrolet be the value brand.

[CatsEye68]

James didn't give us a bunch of cold stats - he gave us driving impressions based on a week behind the wheel.  Tell me, what secret virtues of the Regal failed to "translate" to a reviewer who had, I assume, far more seat time than you did?

He said it was slow. It is not slow. It is not the fastest in its category, but it is not slow.

[ovr50]

doug
my older brother is 68 now , i respect him , he has owned around 65 cars , he had a tiboron , one with a chip in it from the factory , he had to wait longer, to get it
i wasn't impressed - so i knock other cars - so what , maybe i don't play well with others

but i must tell you , in all honesty , i do apologize if you feel i have offended your age group , i often speak with out thinking , which has got me in alot of trouble over the years - have even lost 12 jobs over it . i was typing out of anger re the post you were talking about and did not take my own advice  - so quilty as charged

re typing , i can type quite quickly with my middle finger on my right hand , if i stop to get my other hand involved  it really slows up my pace which i'm not willing to do - so those who complain about my typing , bite me

Oh, great  our new West Coast "barrie" takes on the GM fanboys and the Hyundai Ho's....this thread is so much fun. 

[toolatecrew]

Here are a few 4 cylinder midsize 0-60 times, all from Car and Driver.

Accord SE 9.1 (est)
Legacy 8.8
Regal 8.7
Sonata 7.8
Camry SE 8.1
Mazda 6 8.0
Fusion 8.0

The vast majority won't be able to tell the difference, and enthusiasts are already looking elsewhere.

edit: added the 2011 Accord SE, which gets better mileage, but moderately slower than before.

I don't understand this comparison? Why are we comparing the acceleration time of a entry level lux/sports Sedan that starts at 27K to a volume selling Mid Sized Fiord Fusion that starts at 19K?

The cars you list are all a class lower and considerably less expensive. The expection for engine performance refinment etc are considerably lower.

Why not included the similarly priced Passat that is over 1.5 seconds faster 0-60

This is about performance "in class" it should not perform "worse" that cars in a class below.

[Jaeger]

Buick needs to be a BETTER value propostion to it's competition.

Agree completely.

I don't understand this comparison? Why are we comparing the acceleration time of a entry level lux/sports Sedan that starts at 27K to a volume selling Mid Sized Fiord Fusion that starts at 19K?

The cars you list are all a class lower and considerably less expensive. The expection for engine performance refinment etc are considerably lower.

Why not included the similarly priced Passat that is over 1.5 seconds faster 0-60

Agree completely.  What's more, the V6 versions of those pedestrian sedans will positively blow the Regal into the weeds.  I'm here to tell you - my Altima will run rings around the Regal all day, every day. 

He said it was slow. It is not slow. It is not the fastest in its category, but it is not slow.

Disagree completely.  First, it was his wife who said "Wow, this thing is SLOW!" - and she was absolutely correct.  Judged as a numb grocery-getting appliance, the power is adequate.  But it is being marketed as a sports sedan and targeted against sports / sporty sedans.  In that context, it's a genuine slug.

Jaeger

[toolatecrew]

Buick needs to be a BETTER value propostion to it's competition.

Buick already outsells Audi, Infiniti, and Lincoln. It looks like it will out sell Acura this year. I think they need to continue to upgrade their products, but hold the line on their aggressive pricing.

Let Chevrolet be the value brand.

  Out of Buick’s 53 percent volume gain, retail sales increased only 28 percent.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-core-brand-sales-up-36-percent-in-june-on-strong-fleet-sales/

Audi and Infiniti have an insignificant number fo fleet sales.

What % of 4cly Lecross are going to be fleet sales? 80+??

Its only anecdotal but I've seen and driven a ton of rental Buick Allure's but only rented an Infiniti once and an Audi never

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Here are a few 4 cylinder midsize 0-60 times, all from Car and Driver.

Accord SE 9.1 (est)
Legacy 8.8
Regal 8.7
Sonata 7.8
Camry SE 8.1
Mazda 6 8.0
Fusion 8.0

The vast majority won't be able to tell the difference, and enthusiasts are already looking elsewhere.

edit: added the 2011 Accord SE, which gets better mileage, but moderately slower than before.

I don't understand this comparison? Why are we comparing the acceleration time of a entry level lux/sports Sedan that starts at 27K to a volume selling Mid Sized Fiord Fusion that starts at 19K?

The cars you list are all a class lower and considerably less expensive. The expection for engine performance refinment etc are considerably lower.

Why not included the similarly priced Passat that is over 1.5 seconds faster 0-60

This is about performance "in class" it should not perform "worse" that cars in a class below.

Because they overlap on prices. You can get loaded up versions of these cars with the four cylinder that are more expensive than the basic Regal.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

  Out of Buick’s 53 percent volume gain, retail sales increased only 28 percent.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-core-brand-sales-up-36-percent-in-june-on-strong-fleet-sales/

Its only anecdotal but I've seen and driven a ton of rental Buick Allure's but only rented an Infiniti once and an Audi never

So they "only" had a 28% increase in retail sales for June over June 2009. Yeah, that's awful.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Agree completely.  What's more, the V6 versions of those pedestrian sedans will positively blow the Regal into the weeds.  I'm here to tell you - my Altima will run rings around the Regal all day, every day. 

Jaeger

And for an awful lot of people completely irrelevant. Most Altimas are sold with four cylinders. They same as all of the others on the above list.


This thread would not have gone on nearly as long if it wasn't for the fact that it was a GM product.

[ArticSteve]

Fleets fuel surge at GM, Chrysler
Internal documents show retail sales are down through JulyJesse Snyder
Automotive News -- August 9, 2010 - 12:01 am ET

Reports of robust post-bankruptcy sales at General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group need an asterisk.

Internal documents obtained by Automotive News show that much of the recovery at the two companies comes from sales to daily rental fleets.

The data show retail sales were down less than 1 percent at GM and off 19 percent at Chrysler through July.

Counting fleet of all types and retail sales, GM is up 13 percent this year, and Chrysler is up 11 percent. That's close to the industry's 15 percent gain.

But GM fleet sales are up 53 percent to 400,000 units so far this year, internal documents indicate.

Fleet's contribution Fleet as percentage of U.S. sales, Jan. through July:

Chrysler Group 39%, Ford Motor 35%, General Motors 31%, Hyundai brand 16%, Nissan North America 15%*, Toyota Motor Sales 9%, American Honda 2%*

[Jaeger]

Agree completely.  What's more, the V6 versions of those pedestrian sedans will positively blow the Regal into the weeds.  I'm here to tell you - my Altima will run rings around the Regal all day, every day. 

Jaeger

And for an awful lot of people completely irrelevant. Most Altimas are sold with four cylinders. They same as all of the others on the above list.


This thread would not have gone on nearly as long if it wasn't for the fact that it was a GM product.

It may well be completely irrelevant to "an awful lot of people".  Buick better hope it is irrelevant to a lot of near / luxury sports sedan buyers.  But I gotta tell you, I kinda think performance is a little bit relevant in that context.

This thread would not have gone on nearly as long if GM had put a decent motor under the hood of this supposed sports sedan.

Jaeger

PS - a 4-pot Altima is still a good deal quicker than this slug.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Agree completely.  What's more, the V6 versions of those pedestrian sedans will positively blow the Regal into the weeds.  I'm here to tell you - my Altima will run rings around the Regal all day, every day. 

Jaeger

And for an awful lot of people completely irrelevant. Most Altimas are sold with four cylinders. They same as all of the others on the above list.


This thread would not have gone on nearly as long if it wasn't for the fact that it was a GM product.

It may well be completely irrelevant to "an awful lot of people".  Buick better hope it is irrelevant to a lot of near / luxury sports sedan buyers.  But I gotta tell you, I kinda think performance is a little bit relevant in that context.

This thread would not have gone on nearly as long if GM had put a decent motor under the hood of this supposed sports sedan.

Jaeger

PS - a 4-pot Altima is still a good deal quicker than this slug.

The Legacy is slower still, yet only two pages were spent on it. This is just a platform for the anti-GM contingent.

This car will appeal to traditional Buick buyers, and may pick off a few near/lux sports sedan buyers. The Turbo may pick off a few more. The proposed high output version a few more. Sounds like a pretty good starting point for success.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Too bad I don't have a car next week, this thread will be beaten to death for the next week...

Quick start one on your truck!!!!!!!

[Jaeger]

The Legacy is slower still,

The Legacy isn't a premiun / near luxury sports sedan.

This is just a platform for the anti-GM contingent.

Lame excuse for a lame product.

This car will appeal to traditional Buick buyers..

Traditional midsize sedan Buick buyers generally aren't 4-pot buyers.

Sounds like a pretty good starting point for success.

To you and my pet troll, anyway.

PS - if you find all the posts devoted to this thread bothersome in some way, why have you made so many recent and repetitive entries?

PPS - Have you even driven this vehicle?

Too bad I don't have a car next week, this thread will be beaten to death for the next week...

Quick start one on your truck!!!!!!!

 

Jaeger

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Fleets fuel surge at GM, Chrysler
Internal documents show retail sales are down through JulyJesse Snyder
Automotive News -- August 9, 2010 - 12:01 am ET

Reports of robust post-bankruptcy sales at General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group need an asterisk.

Internal documents obtained by Automotive News show that much of the recovery at the two companies comes from sales to daily rental fleets.

The data show retail sales were down less than 1 percent at GM and off 19 percent at Chrysler through July.

Counting fleet of all types and retail sales, GM is up 13 percent this year, and Chrysler is up 11 percent. That's close to the industry's 15 percent gain.

But GM fleet sales are up 53 percent to 400,000 units so far this year, internal documents indicate.

Fleet's contribution Fleet as percentage of U.S. sales, Jan. through July:

Chrysler Group 39%, Ford Motor 35%, General Motors 31%, Hyundai brand 16%, Nissan North America 15%*, Toyota Motor Sales 9%, American Honda 2%*

Chrysler, Ford and GM will always have high fleet sales because every contractor, delivery company, etc and the military use pickups and vans.