Topic: 2011 Ford Fiesta SES; Day 1

[mlin32]

My understanding in regards to the lack of volume control on the steering wheel is because Ford US wanted to integrate the SYNC into the steering wheel. European models get the volume controls on the steering wheel; the Sync system that basically forces us to forgo the volume controls on the steering wheel.

Test drove one a few weeks ago. For the price it's very good (skip the leather) and it drives well, but the North American market gets awful all-season tires that offer little grip and spoil an otherwise decent chassis. Steering could be heavier and it needs a bit more power. It's fine in urban areas but I do mostly highway the 5MT and engine just don't cut it.

[CatsEye68]

Interesting that James finds fault in day 2 with the interior ergonomics. That has been my experience with several Ford products I have driven in recent years -- the control layout and design just seems "off" somehow. I have not been a fan of Ford interiors lately and this seems just one more example of where they dropped the ball on an otherwise good vehicle.

[aknutson]

to give you an idea of the effect of the "high" interest rate, a well equipped SEL sedan is $19,917 before taxes...pay that off over 72 month, and your payment is $349/month...add that up, and it is $25,128...just over $5,000 interest...and remember, i didn't included taxes in that amount.

for comparison, a 2010 Hyundai Elantra is $19594 before taxes, which works out to $284.65/month for 72 months, or $20494.80...that's a whopping $5,000 in interest savings...sure, the Fiesta has more "cool features", but the 2011 Elantra looks promising in terms of great styling and features and should be comparable in price.

not trying to promote Hyundai here, just showing that the "Employee Price" really isn't as good as a deal as it may appear to be.

True, but when Hyundai releases the 2011 Elantra, interest rates will be high again - the current model is almost what, 4-5 years old now? They're piling incentives high on that vehicle, even if it is a good little car.

On the note of ergonomics, I can see the tiny volume control being frustrating, and that Atari-esque 80's dash display might also throw some people off, it couldn't have been that expensive to use a modern TFT LCD screen in there. As for the door mirrors, sounds complicated but I'm sure it would be second nature after a few months - that's not something that most people adjust daily anyways, unless you're sharing lots of drivers.

[quadzilla]

to give you an idea of the effect of the "high" interest rate, a well equipped SEL sedan is $19,917 before taxes...pay that off over 72 month <snipped to end>

If somebody needs 72 months to pay off their car, they over bought and needs to rethink their budget and save up for a bigger down payment.

[Jaeger]

to give you an idea of the effect of the "high" interest rate, a well equipped SEL sedan is $19,917 before taxes...pay that off over 72 month <snipped to end>

If somebody needs 72 months to pay off their car, they over bought and needs to rethink their budget and save up for a bigger down payment.

Amen to that!

Jaeger

[WRX_Pilot]

...and that Atari-esque 80's dash display might also throw some people off, it couldn't have been that expensive to use a modern TFT LCD screen in there...

I was thinking that too..

[Sival]

I've read the fuel economy (relatively speaking) sucks in the 2.

According to mazda.ca
               city/highway
Manual       6.8/5.6
Auto          7.5/6.0

US EPA for manual has it at 8.1 city and 6.7 Hwy.  Not stellar numbers considering it's a teeny bit smaller than the Fiesta.  Wonder if it all boils down to gearing?

Those ratings are about as good as the Toyota Yaris manual and better than the current crop of Korean subcompacts (Accent, Rio and Aveo). They're equivalent to the Fiesta manual's, they're a bit better in the city and a bit worse on the highway. Note that the Mazda 2 doesn't have the same engine as the Fiesta, it has a 100-hp 1.5L instead of the 120-hp 1.6L of the Fiesta. It is also a bit lighter and shorter, though the interior room is better, it's mediocre instead of unacceptably small*. That may explain the better city fuel economy and worse highway fuel economy.

*YMMV, but when I sat in a Fiesta in the Montreal auto show, I had trouble being comfortable in the front seat and when I looked at the rear seat, it was physically impossible for someone to sit behind me. If I'm driving, the Fiesta becomes a 3-seater, it's that bad. Full disclosure, I'm 6-foot-3, 220 lbs.

[aknutson]

to give you an idea of the effect of the "high" interest rate, a well equipped SEL sedan is $19,917 before taxes...pay that off over 72 month <snipped to end>

If somebody needs 72 months to pay off their car, they over bought and needs to rethink their budget and save up for a bigger down payment.

Amen to that!

Jaeger

That's not necessarily true. If one wants to take advantage of a 0% lending rate over a 72 month period, that's smart financing - more money borrowed at 0% means you have more cashflow over the 6-year period to invest elsewhere. Besides, not every family generates enough income to support a quality car purchase outside of a 72-month term. It can offer those who would otherwise have an uneconomical or unsafe vehicle the opportunity to own one, all the while meeting the financial constraints of monthly bill obligations. If I borrow say $15K for a used car and pay that off over 48 months, I can get a pretty decent car. But if I were to spend $20K and keep the payments the same, probably stretching into the 72-month territory, I could take advantage of a newer car with better gas mileage, more safety features and a factory warranty.

I get what you're saying, but that's not fair to people that don't have a lot to spend and need a good, affordable car. If it's a luxury car, yes, that's just crazy...I'm talking like, Honda's and Fiestas, something sensible.

[tpl]

What did families do when car loans bank or dealer were only 3 years or possibly 4 years then?  AND interest rates were generally much higher?   

Sure cars were cheaper back then ( '70s '80s '90s) but family incomes were a lot lower as well even allowing for houses being cheaper.

No wonder the economists whine and complain about levels of personal debt in Canada being far too high... even at 0% interest its still a debt and a car over 72 months you are still underwater probably for 60 of those months.

I am with Jaeger et al on this. 

[aknutson]

What did families do when car loans bank or dealer were only 3 years or possibly 4 years then?  AND interest rates were generally much higher?   

Sure cars were cheaper back then ( '70s '80s '90s) but family incomes were a lot lower as well even allowing for houses being cheaper.

No wonder the economists whine and complain about levels of personal debt in Canada being far too high... even at 0% interest its still a debt and a car over 72 months you are still underwater probably for 60 of those months.

I am with Jaeger et al on this. 

I'm not saying yourself or Jaeger are wrong, I'm just saying there is room in an economy for all sorts of purchases, and just because someone can't afford to pay off their car in 36 or 48 months doesn't mean (to me at least) they have 'overbought'. I would think leasing, which seems to occupy about 80% of new car purchases, is more a concept of 'overbuying'. Low monthly rates because you never actually have an asset - at least at the end of a 72-month finance you own something, even if it doesn't have a great dollar value.

One note though, you say wages were lower - I'm not sure about that. There used to be a lot more well-paid local manufacturing and industry jobs, which are now all overseas, that local manufacturing has been replaced with a myriad of minimum-wage service industry jobs. Perhaps you're right, but I would hesitate to agree without seeing some facts on that one.

Anyways, this is getting away from Fiesta - just wanted to throw in my two cents.

[tpl]

Right. Back to Fiesta.   It is on my list to go to our local dealer to try one for size... literally... can I get comfortable in one.
 I doubt I'd buy one, I'll wait for the Focus  but I really do like the look of the Fiesta with those great colours.   I read "day 2"  and I'd have to agree that if any audio controls are to be on the steering wheel the volume control should be one of them!

[safristi]

  Fiesta with great KOLORS................tpl...........have U been infected with the Bob Bacillus.....or macular degeneration baybee...........those horrid green puke phospherescene hues belong in a CSI lab............. ...........

[MKII]

James I agree that the missing volume control on the steeringwheel is bad, but the volume button works like most others on the centre stack. I am sure you are getting more familar with the setup now.

Ford EU will be offering the new Sony HU audio system as an option for MY2011.


Also just read that a tweaked Fiesta will be shown at the 2011 Geneva Auto Show, revised front bumper will get the LED strips driving lights.

And off topic another vehicle concept to be shown at Geneva (finally) will be the Honda Jazz/Fit competitor the next gen Euro Fusion with a new name ... B-Max


This was the concept from 2 years ago, and I understand that this design will most likely be changed.

[Schmengie]

A 'scanning eye' built into that ridiculous red LED display would complete the center stack's Cylon theme. I really like the car otherwise, I saw one just the other day in a parking lot off Glenmore Rd in Kelowna and it looked great. The ergonomic glitches mentioned in the review and the Battlestar Gallactica interior are a bit much for me though. That radio head unit also looks like a nightmare to upgrade via the aftermarket.

[bikenut]

which one is the volume control , the silver thing ? ha,ha

ford has sold more cars in canada this year than any other car maker
their j.d power reliability have shot way up - now this also includes 1st year models ,which is remarkable , no other car maker can make that claim - ford has their cars well sorted before release ( despite it already being in europe )

price wise -- i jumped over to toyotas web site -  build your own - yaris hatchback rs  with somewhat similar features on the option list
had to throw in the trd stuff to try to equal fords handling -- it came to $ 24,500 something

its a good idea with the incentives because of the big difference in prices between the sedan
and the hatchback  - it will be a hit , ford is on a roll - from what i've read the fiesta gets better gas mileage despite being heavier and having a bigger engine than the lighter smaller engine mazda 2 , i simply rack this up to the ford engine is direct injected  , the mazda direct injection motors are coming out soon called blue sky motors or something

[dirtyjeffer]

True, but when Hyundai releases the 2011 Elantra, interest rates will be high again - the current model is almost what, 4-5 years old now? They're piling incentives high on that vehicle, even if it is a good little car.

my example shows simply the costs related to interest rates...i didn't factor in any incentives on the Hyundai, i simply went by the MSRP on the website...i picked that model as it is similar in price...alternatively, i could have picked a Civic with 0.9% financing (which is actually slightly less than what Hyundai was offering).

[diceman]

Ford has managed to totally destroy the Fit on their very first try.

[dirtyjeffer]

If somebody needs 72 months to pay off their car, they over bought and needs to rethink their budget and save up for a bigger down payment.

if someone needs 25+ to pay off their house, they need to rethink their budget...i mean, it's no different, right?

if you can get financing for 0% (or close to it), why not?...money paid in interest is waste...you are better off paying the same monthly payment and getting more value for your car (added features, higher end model etc)...i would rather have a car worth $5000 more (whether it is a better model or added features) than simply handing $5000 over in interest and getting nothing in return.

when my parents purchased their new car last year, they went with the 3 year 0% interest rate...not because they don't have the money (they were going to write a cheque for the car), but they can make 4-5% on their money, so what not make money on the cash and get the financing for free?...that is the smart thing to do.

[dirtyjeffer]

ford has sold more cars in canada this year than any other car maker
their j.d power reliability have shot way up - now this also includes 1st year models ,which is remarkable , no other car maker can make that claim - ford has their cars well sorted before release ( despite it already being in europe )

yes, it is also why i was telling everyone i knew to buy Ford stock in late 2008/early 2009 when it was about $1.80 share (it is now over $12/share).

from what i've read the fiesta gets better gas mileage despite being heavier and having a bigger engine than the lighter smaller engine mazda 2 , i simply rack this up to the ford engine is direct injected  , the mazda direct injection motors are coming out soon called blue sky motors or something

the Ford does not offer direct injection...the improved fuel economy is probably due to the transmission (the 6 speed twin clutch automatic, the only car in this price range to offer one).

[SJP]

"If somebody needs 72 months to pay off their car, they over bought and needs to rethink their budget and save up for a bigger down payment"

At 0% why make any down payment? Big businesses do this all the time, it is cheaper to play with someone else's money than your own. I have friends who used their cash in hand as a down payment on a rental property. They had intended on buying a vehicle and owning it outright, but decided to take advantage of 0% financing. Seems like a wise move to me. Your money will be worth more a few years down the road than it is now. That being said, I would not be comfortable taking that many months(72) to pay off a car, but taking advantage of that option doesn't make anyone foolish, possibly the opposite.