Topic: 2011 Ford Fiesta SES; Day 1

[tpl]

Ford has managed to totally destroy the Fit on their very first try.

Not quite.  One of the great strengths of the Fit is the versatility of the inside.  But close I agree.   Now if they can do the FIT interior thing with that Bmax... then they have nailed it.

[rrocket]

Ford has managed to totally destroy the Fit on their very first try.

Not quite.  One of the great strengths of the Fit is the versatility of the inside.  But close I agree.   Now if they can do the FIT interior thing with that Bmax... then they have nailed it.

I also read in a comparo that they said the Fit was still more fun to drive...

[bikenut]

shocked to hear the fiesta is not direct injected , i just assumed it was because of the high mpg  - when yaris led the mpg wars of the subcompacts it won by being the only engine that was direct injected of the group

james , you said the fiesta was peppy around down -- that doesn't include off the line for the first 50 ft in the automatic that you tested awhile back,  does it ?

you mention it not being as fun to drive as the mini  - being too fun to drive just gets you alot more tickets , so the fiesta might be the perfect balance , can handle but not too much fun , would save you gas too because you wouldn't be booting it around all the time , which is what i'm looking for -- less gas , less tickets ( at least with my bike i can out run them )
i read the fiesta auto was slow off the line for the 1st 50 ft - when i read that i lost interest in taking it for a test drive 

[MKII]

Ford has managed to totally destroy the Fit on their very first try.

Not quite.  One of the great strengths of the Fit is the versatility of the inside.  But close I agree.   Now if they can do the FIT interior thing with that Bmax... then they have nailed it.

Posted by: rrocket
I also read in a comparo that they said the Fit was still more fun to drive...
[/quote]

I've also read in multiple comparo's that they said the Fiesta was still more fun to drive.

Here are some comments from a chap that was a Mini "S" owner who now owns a Fiesta (North American)
His comments were directed to a writer of this reivew  http://www.examiner....a-SES-hatchback

".have you actually DRIVEN a regular Cooper....there isnt a single area in which the Fiesta doesnt trump the vehicle you list as "sporty"...its manual trans is even WORSE, its noisier, it DOES have the bump thump you have previously SPECULATED in your Fiesta S review..( does that make it "zippier" ? ) , the windows rattle as does the moonroof..has inferior gas mileage and the list gos on. For the life of me I have NO idea why the Cooper ( barruing the S ) is held on such a pedestal...i wish someone wiould actually list the reasons WHY?....the base Cooper is OVER-RATED and OVER priced....and this from someone who OWNED an S"

James you wrote "the Fiesta is peppy and fun-to-drive around town, but to be honest, it’s slow in a straight line"  Is this a Fiesta problem or is this common with the Fiesta competitors (Aveo,Yaris,Rio,Accent,Fit,Versa, etc)? I would not expect straight line performance from any of these B segment cars to be honest.

Regarding comment on the 6 spd Powershift being slow off the line, here is one reviewers comments on the new tranny and how to get the best out of it.

"If you want to have some real fun, though, slot it into L. Traditionally standing for Low, on Ford's latest automatic transmissions it actually represents "Lowest possible gear at the current speed." On the road, it means the transmission will hold a gear all the way to redline and even leave it if you let off the gas. Conversely, it will also drop to a lower gear as soon as is safe for the engine in order to give you as much power as possible. Out on the autocross, this feature proved absolutely brilliant, always dialing up the gear needed right on cue."

Obvious that Ford N.A. priority with this 120hp is fuel economy, the gearing difference between the EU Fiesta and North America Fiesta confirms this.

[aknutson]

The key to the Fit is still it's unbeatable cargo flexibility, the truly fold-flat seats make a little car into an impressive hauler. After toodling around in a friend's Versa, I was unimpressed with the awkward folding seats that leave a cargo bay full of obstacles. It was still a good little car, but the Fit is the grocery-toting champ. That said, my money would still go to Ford as I don't move a lot of stuff very often, and the balance of refinement and fun-to-drive nature is a recipe for a long and happy ownership experience.

[aknutson]

Oh, and I'll be waiting for the EcoBoost model in a couple of years 

[canuck901]

better then a honda fit??? not the 2009-10 or 11 model FIT.
Made in Japan (Honda FIT) vs Made in Mexico (ford Fiesta)  The Ford Fiesta is made in Mexico and its cheap fit and finish shows.
this car  may look great new, but in a few yrs, it will definitely not be as sturdy and reliable as a Honda fit which was 2009 compact car of the year.

The European Fiesta would have been the car to bring here, not a cheap down version made in Mexico.

and yes I have driven both and bought a 2010 Honda fit sport!

[tpl]

shocked to hear the fiesta is not direct injected , i just assumed it was because of the high mpg  - when yaris led the mpg wars of the subcompacts it won by being the only engine that was direct injected of the group

I don't think the Yaris is a DI engine.  DI engines are noticeably more expensive and the Yaris is the bottom of the Toyota NA line.

[wing]

MKII, yes they are all slow.  I didn't want to make it sound like this was some type of sports car despite its fun to drive nature.  It's peppy and fun but hey its slow but so are all its competitors so don't fool yourself is all.

The automatic in "L" is like sports mode and works wonders -- I really wish Ford had sent me one to test out day to day.

[Jaeger]

Ford has managed to totally destroy the Fit on their very first try.

Not quite.  One of the great strengths of the Fit is the versatility of the inside.  But close I agree.   Now if they can do the FIT interior thing with that Bmax... then they have nailed it.

I also read in a comparo that they said the Fit was still more fun to drive...

So did I.

Jaeger

[greengs]

I checked out the Honda Fit last weekend and was surprised to find the seating position was really awkward for me.  I couldn't get the seat adjusted properly and the pedals were at a really strange angle. 

Will have to look at a Mazda 2 and Fiesta to see if this is common to subcompacts.

[bzborow1]

better then a honda fit??? not the 2009-10 or 11 model FIT.
Made in Japan (Honda FIT) vs Made in Mexico (ford Fiesta)  The Ford Fiesta is made in Mexico and its cheap fit and finish shows.
this car  may look great new, but in a few yrs, it will definitely not be as sturdy and reliable as a Honda fit which was 2009 compact car of the year.

The European Fiesta would have been the car to bring here, not a cheap down version made in Mexico.

and yes I have driven both and bought a 2010 Honda fit sport!

Fair enough.  Just two points I'd like to make about this:

1.  Honda and Toyota build some of its cars in Thailand.  Sound like Mexico?
2.  Most of the work is done via machines now anyways.

[aknutson]

The Ford Fiesta is made in Mexico and its cheap fit and finish shows.

How do you figure? Automotive rags are praising initial quality and overall finesse for its class.

this car  may look great new, but in a few yrs, it will definitely not be as sturdy and reliable as a Honda fit

There is now way to know this now is there? For all you know the Fiesta could be legendary for its reliability, or it could be terrible - nobody can predict this, but in its home market in Europe the Fiesta has stood up very well and been a top selling car there for some time. It's hard NOT to buy a sturdy, reliable car these days.

[tpl]

Went to the dealer and looked at a Fiesta. Mostly loaded sedan with 5mt    $17.9k before taxes.  Nobody could sit behind me so it would be a 3 seater. I'd have to say I did not *like* the interior layout although I could not point to a single thing wrong with it. Trouble is... the Focus may have the same and that would be bad ( for me).

It is a very long car compared to the last Fiesta I drove ( early '80s in the UK) but I guess that's progress in crash worthiness. It does have a good size trunk.

[bikenut]

 direct injected engines available now , a little dated - no sonata mentioned

                http://wrmag.nextautos.com/issue/49/111

regarding yaris , i mixed up my euro model yaris

also fooled by u.s. ads like this , not noticing the tdi

San Diego Used 2007 Toyota Yaris Listings | San Diego Used Cars ...2007 T0Y0TA YARIS S, WHITE W/ BEIGE CLOTH INTERIOR, AUTO, 4 CYL 1.5L, HAS 68K MILES, CLEAN TITLE,. .... 1.5L DOHC SFI 16-valve VVT-i 4-cyl engine w/Toyota direct injection (TDI), ... used 2007 Toyota Yaris 1.5L Automatic for $8888 ...
cars.oodle.com/2007-toyota-yaris/san-diego-area/ - Cached

[SJP]

aknutson wrote
"It's hard NOT to buy a sturdy, reliable car these days"
I Pretty much agree, with a few exceptions, most new vehicles are pretty darn good. And predicting which ones are going to be legendary tough is impossible. The days of buying a particular brand because it would likely be the best built are pretty much over. Every company has the ability to produce great cars, and the Fiesta looks like a winner. I personally would wait and compare it on the lot next to the Focus, to compare prices/content. Ford's track record as of late has been quite good. Mulally and his crew have made some great decisions on where to put their money.

[bikenut]

the mini is small and has sports car handling
the base model is slow and gets poor gas mileage
 you have to put up with the dash too
but the s and  john cooper works are the car to have -- if you want a comfortable and plush quiet ride look elsewhere , this car is meant for zipping in and out of traffic the way a bike is

if you want a sports car that doesn't look like one its a good pick

nice to know about the "low" in the auto of the fiesta , but since finding out its not direct injection i've lost interest again -- why buy an old engine design when the new one is showing up all over offering more power and better fuel ecomomy

[ArticSteve]

to give you an idea of the effect of the "high" interest rate, a well equipped SEL sedan is $19,917 before taxes...pay that off over 72 month <snipped to end>

If somebody needs 72 months to pay off their car, they over bought and needs to rethink their budget and save up for a bigger down payment.

Amen to that!

Jaeger

That's not necessarily true. If one wants to take advantage of a 0% lending rate over a 72 month period, that's smart financing - more money borrowed at 0% means you have more cashflow over the 6-year period to invest elsewhere. Besides, not every family generates enough income to support a quality car purchase outside of a 72-month term. It can offer those who would otherwise have an uneconomical or unsafe vehicle the opportunity to own one, all the while meeting the financial constraints of monthly bill obligations. If I borrow say $15K for a used car and pay that off over 48 months, I can get a pretty decent car. But if I were to spend $20K and keep the payments the same, probably stretching into the 72-month territory, I could take advantage of a newer car with better gas mileage, more safety features and a factory warranty.

I get what you're saying, but that's not fair to people that don't have a lot to spend and need a good, affordable car. If it's a luxury car, yes, that's just crazy...I'm talking like, Honda's and Fiestas, something sensible.

Besides, not every family generates enough income to support a quality car purchase outside of a 72-month term. It can offer those who would otherwise have an uneconomical or unsafe vehicle the opportunity to own one, all the while meeting the financial constraints of monthly bill obligations. If I borrow say $15K for a used car and pay that off over 48 months, I can get a pretty decent car. But if I were to spend $20K and keep the payments the same, probably stretching into the 72-month territory, I could take advantage of a newer car with better gas mileage, more safety features and a factory warranty.

For those that have relatively good income security going new over a 6 year term is the way to go as NUT points out even @ 4%.  Used will be 9% for the same buyer.   Although, it's important to buy the right car; a vehicle that can go 150k km without repair other than the usual wear items.

[Ice]

the mini is small and has sports car handling
the base model is slow and gets poor gas mileage
 you have to put up with the dash too
but the s and  john cooper works are the car to have -- if you want a comfortable and plush quiet ride look elsewhere , this car is meant for zipping in and out of traffic the way a bike is

if you want a sports car that doesn't look like one its a good pick

nice to know about the "low" in the auto of the fiesta , but since finding out its not direct injection i've lost interest again -- why buy an old engine design when the new one is showing up all over offering more power and better fuel ecomomy

There will probably be an EcoBoost Fiesta at some point (we've seen the spy photos before) but you can bet that it will command a price premium over the standard engine.  The engine really isn't that antiquated.  It's got all of the bells and whistles you'd expect including what Ford calls Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing (Ti-VCT)... on a Toyota that'd be called Dual VVTi and I think that's generally similar to the iVTEC found on some newer Honda's.  And 120hp out of a 1.6L is not bad.

I don't think we've seen a DI engine on an entry level sub compact yet (definitely not the Yaris!).  Next year when the new Focus arrives that may be the most entry level car with a DI engine (a 2.0L with around 150hp) or the Hyundai Elantra with their new 1.6 GDI.

What really matters is how good the fuel economy is... and if you're me... how refined the engine sounds and feels. Some engines sound horrible when you push them while others seem to really sing (like most Honda engines) when you push them.

[aknutson]

...
For those that have relatively good income security going new over a 6 year term is the way to go as NUT points out even @ 4%.  Used will be 9% for the same buyer.   Although, it's important to buy the right car; a vehicle that can go 150k km without repair other than the usual wear items.

Any way you slice it, cars are funny things - they are both the best and the worst investments we make all at the same time. Well, unless you were heavy into Nortel...in which case my apologies.