Author Topic: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars  (Read 5837 times)

Offline Autos_Editor

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Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« on: August 09, 2010, 04:02:10 am »
Collisions between cars and bicycles often end tragically for the bicycle rider, says Lawyer Jordan W. Charness, but these collisions can also produce emotional shock and lasting guilt for the car driver, he notes.
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Offline overtakeyouintheleftlane

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 06:52:54 am »
Cyclists are supposed to obey the rules of the road. When the car and the cyclist crash, the cyclist always loses. The cyclist is 12, so I'm not surprised, however, adults should know better.

Cyclists should always wear a helmet, bright clothing/reflective vests and protective gear, have a headlight and rear lights on all the time. Being visible is important. Cars should have low beam headlights on all the time (not DRL's) to increase visibility to all road users.

Crashes between cyclists and cars keeps me biking in the park only. Too afraid to cycle on Toronto streets.

Offline pickles

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 07:20:23 am »
July 1st I proved the importance of wearing a bicycle helmet.  I hit a small pothole but was enough to catch the front tire in a way my bike instantly did a endo so fast I hit head first then flipped on my side.  Bells top of the line helmet saved my head but split the helmet.  sore neck broken the arm/wrist in 3 places and dislocated my shoulder.

It really irks me to see any rider out there not wearing a helmet, improperly fitted helmet or this one bugs the hell out of me - wearing a helmet without the chin strap done up - can some explain to me how the helmet stays on in a crash

Cyclists must to obey the rules of the road

Offline 5 Wheel Drive

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 10:18:38 am »
"Oh and before I forget - if you're going to ride a bike on a busy, main road, make sure it's roadworthy. That means you, Mr ArentICoolCosImRidingARecliningBike, who used to ride that stupid reclining bike on Hunt Club that would NEVER go in a straight line and would randomly dart into the right hand lane."

I've seen this guy going along Hunt Club in the afternoons too.  I'm surprised this guy is still alive!
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Offline quadzilla

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 10:24:16 am »
I see quite a few people not wearing helmets or riding with them hanging from their bikes and I wonder why? I will say the best answer I usually here is they don't want to mess up their hair.....but are you not riding a bike into the wind?   ::)

Then there are parents who actually do make their kids where one but not themselves. Who do they think will raise their kids if they take a nasty fall?

I won't even get into parents that let their kids ride those 'scooter' things without a helmet or protective gear.

As to cars and bikes. Both parties need to get along. Bikes have to stop breaking the rules, cars have to stop breaking the rules and why not throw in people (ie: walking, running) since they also break the rules. Everybody needs to learn how to share their space and get along.

One thing I never understood is why are the side of the highways not paved to allow more room for cyclist and emergency maneuvers? Instead we grade it at 45 degrees towards a ditch and add gravel to help you slide into it.

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 10:28:19 am »
Little to do with this article, but Quad saw the new Nissan Leaf TV advert last night and thought of you!
AQUAMAN64 also posts on DriverBlogs.com!

Offline D70

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2010, 10:35:35 am »
Cyclists are supposed to obey the rules of the road. When the car and the cyclist crash, the cyclist always loses. The cyclist is 12, so I'm not surprised, however, adults should know better.

Cyclists should always wear a helmet, bright clothing/reflective vests and protective gear, have a headlight and rear lights on all the time. Being visible is important. Cars should have low beam headlights on all the time (not DRL's) to increase visibility to all road users.

Crashes between cyclists and cars keeps me biking in the park only. Too afraid to cycle on Toronto streets.

As a pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist and car driver I often see cyclists here in the Vancouver area doing similar things.

 It was tragic that this happened. I remember 60 years ago having my bicycle being inspected every 6 months by dedicated Traffic Police who arrived at our school in their Black with Police marking equipped Ford V8 coupes. We were also given instructions on rules and how to ride in traffic, in my case rural roads. Those fundamentals still are with me today. I often use my bell to warn pedestrians and sometimes vehicles of my presence.

  Police in BC seldom enforce any rules on a consistent basis, as a result pedestrians, cyclists motorcyclists and vehicle drivers are observed breaking rules every time I leave my residence. Yesterday on a short motorcycle ride I saw 2 people roll through stop signs in front of me, both while talking on cell phones. The first I had to avoid. I was not a happy motorcyclist.

Education starts from an early age, my grandson has mastered bicycle riding since April. His father takes him out in the community teaching him the rules by setting a good example. Just turned 6, he soaks up knowledge like a sponge so learning the right stuff is important.

I was driving a tractor and truck and then cars at an age not much older.

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Offline dkaz

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2010, 10:46:27 am »
As a cyclist, I always obey the rules of the road, I have ever since I started riding on the road in elementary school. Most cyclists do obey the rules of the road but I see enough fellow cyclists who don't.

Therefore as a driver, I tend to expect cyclists to do bad things and drive defensively when I am near them.

Eventually we need to get along and respect each other. I was on a country road a month ago which was narrow with no shoulder. A few cyclists were going down single file and there was a car coming the other way. I slowed down to 30km/h as there was no safe way to pass them (give cyclists at least 5 feet from the curb or side of the road, they actually have the right to the whole lane for whatever reason which they can take by driving on the left side of the lane), and the guy behind me became extremely agitated by this fact. As a cyclist, I can thankfully say I've only been run off the road twice, both times by taxi drivers, but if we learn to respect each other we'll soon figure out that oh the majority of drivers and cyclists out there are great, it's just a few bad apples spoiling each group.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 10:51:32 am »
Education starts from an early age, my grandson has mastered bicycle riding since April. His father takes him out in the community teaching him the rules by setting a good example. Just turned 6, he soaks up knowledge like a sponge so learning the right stuff is important.

This is a very important point. This year I have had a lot of run ins with peoples children that don't know how to ride (keep right, hand on bars, etc) while they are with their parents. Of course, as a parent you NEED to ride with your child, not 40 meters ahead of them.  ::)

The last one was a parent watching their kid weave from side to side of the bike path. One was doing it in front of them while the other behind them. I announced myself as I was coming up from behind and told the parent to stop letting their kids do that. Of course they look at me like I'm the idiot.

When I pass families that are riding correctly I usually make good comments to the parents how great that is to see today.

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 11:05:25 am »
Quote from: DKaz link=topic=70828.msg 662038#msg 662038 date=1281365187
As a cyclist, I always obey the rules of the road, I have ever since I started riding on the road in elementary school. Most cyclists do obey the rules of the road but I see enough fellow cyclists who don't.

Therefore as a driver, I tend to expect cyclists to do bad things and drive defensively when I am near them.

Eventually we need to get along and respect each other. I was on a country road a month ago which was narrow with no shoulder. A few cyclists were going down single file and there was a car coming the other way. I slowed down to 30km/h as there was no safe way to pass them (give cyclists at least 5 feet from the curb or side of the road, they actually have the right to the whole lane for whatever reason which they can take by driving on the left side of the lane), and the guy behind me became extremely agitated by this fact. As a cyclist, I can thankfully say I've only been run off the road twice, both times by taxi drivers, but if we learn to respect each other we'll soon figure out that oh the majority of drivers and cyclists out there are great, it's just a few bad apples spoiling each group.

Drivers need to respect the rules of the road and they need to be aware of cyclists and treat them with respect within the rules of the road.

However I have to very much disagree that "most" cyclists obey the rules of the road. I saw a cyclist use a hand signal for his turn last week. That was the first time I've seen this in over a year maybe more.

The biggest issue with cyclists is unpredictability. If you are on the road as a vehicle you need to behave like all the other vehicles. Drivers are used to vehicles behaving a certain way and they anticipate based on this. If I see a car going at an intersection with no brake lights to show they are slowing and no signal I prepare they will go straight not make a random turn across traffic. If a car approaches a stop sign the expectation is that ill will stop..not blow through or jump up onto the sidewalk , go across a crosswalk and then back onto the road.

Cyclists are terrible in my experience in signaling.

Offline Spec5

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 12:32:28 pm »
Cars and bikes just don't mix. I ride strictly off-road because I just don't trust any driver these days. I've got some kick a$$ lighting equipment but its been proven that drunk drivers actually AIM for bright lights - thus all those crazy car crashes involving stopped police cars and horrifc rear-enders. Imagine that while on a bicycle. I'll stay in the bush thanks and take my chances with the bears.

Good pointers from all the other cyclists here about how to behave and helmet safety! For the love of god I can't believe the number of adults I see with no helmet - at least they make their kids wear 'em.

There's a guy in town here who has permanent brain damage because he wasn't wearing a helmet while mountain biking (nonetheless!) and couldn't unclip from his pedals when he got stuck trying to clear a rock. Fell over and smacked his head on a rock - and he wasn't even moving! Can't stress helmet safety enough - don't forget to replace it YEARLY (especially for little ones) as they tend to toss them in the grass or in the driveway instead of placing them on the handlebars, etc. That does weaken the styrofoams ability to take punishment.

Safe cycling to everyone - you road guys are freakin' nuts IMO! :) Hope the woman in the story is "ok" - the kid of course too but he definately needs to attend some proper training courses regarding road use.
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Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2010, 01:45:08 pm »
I don't know about other provinces but in Nova Scotia a training course and license card are MANDATORY for Boats and ATVs..two recreational vehicles that. yet there is no mandatory bicycle course or licensing requirement to drive on the same road with cars? Something isn't right here. You can't drive a car until you are 16 and have passed a test yet just about anyone of any age can hop onto a bike and mix it up in traffic.

Offline pickles

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2010, 01:47:05 pm »
myself and several clubs I ride with follow the rules and even keep in touch with DMV in regards changes and awareness.  Waiting for the 3 foot rule to be implemented.  Now our clubs have issues with motorists as we follow the rules but are finding the motorists are not following them.

And what about the bike lanes where I constantly see cars parking in them or there is so much road debris in the bikes lanes that they are rendered useless and unsafe.

It sucks we have riders that have no regard for their safety or the rules of the road.  

Offline Spec5

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2010, 04:01:57 pm »
I don't know about other provinces but in Nova Scotia a training course and license card are MANDATORY for Boats and ATVs..two recreational vehicles that. yet there is no mandatory bicycle course or licensing requirement to drive on the same road with cars? Something isn't right here. You can't drive a car until you are 16 and have passed a test yet just about anyone of any age can hop onto a bike and mix it up in traffic.

You know what thats not a bad idea. I mean really you are sharing the roadway. Question would be at what age do you start hitting up kids to have a license? Who's going to police or enforce it? Whats the penalty? (do you hit the kid with the fine or the parents? Maybe confiscate the bike?)

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2010, 04:14:55 pm »
...I was on a country road a month ago which was narrow with no shoulder. A few cyclists were going down single file and there was a car coming the other way. I slowed down to 30km/h as there was no safe way to pass them (give cyclists at least 5 feet from the curb or side of the road, they actually have the right to the whole lane for whatever reason which they can take by driving on the left side of the lane), and the guy behind me became extremely agitated by this fact. As a cyclist, I can thankfully say I've only been run off the road twice, both times by taxi drivers, but if we learn to respect each other we'll soon figure out that oh the majority of drivers and cyclists out there are great, it's just a few bad apples spoiling each group...

Great scenario to bring up, because as both a cyclist and driver, the most dangerous  situations are ones like the one you just described. Higher speed backroads, little to no shoulder, and two cars coming at each other and no room to pass the cyclist. I've been riding before and been as close to the shoulder as humanly possible (along that little strip of asphalt on the outside of the white line!) and have had cars whip past me at 80 km/h, almost taking me out with their wing mirrors. DKaz did the right thing and just slow down. I realize it may be frustrating because you want to go fast but it's worth giving up a few seconds of your time to prevent anybody getting injured. Furthermore I've been there as a driver and had other cars veer into my lane to avoid a cyclist, instead of gently applying the brakes and waiting for a gap. Be patient, give generous room, and cyclists try your best to stay in a straight line!

Another note is that cyclists can't always ride right against the side of the road due to sewer grates. I've been riding along streets and almost clipped by cars because they feel that I'm hogging the road - I'm really not, I just don't want to end up doing a face-peel because my front wheel gets jammed half-way down a sewer grate!

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2010, 04:23:57 pm »
I don't know about other provinces but in Nova Scotia a training course and license card are MANDATORY for Boats and ATVs..two recreational vehicles that. yet there is no mandatory bicycle course or licensing requirement to drive on the same road with cars? Something isn't right here. You can't drive a car until you are 16 and have passed a test yet just about anyone of any age can hop onto a bike and mix it up in traffic.

You know what thats not a bad idea. I mean really you are sharing the roadway. Question would be at what age do you start hitting up kids to have a license? Who's going to police or enforce it? Whats the penalty? (do you hit the kid with the fine or the parents? Maybe confiscate the bike?)

If you are not old enough to pass a test on the rules of the road then you are not old enough to BE on the road.

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2010, 04:28:43 pm »
Yesterday on a short motorcycle ride I saw 2 people roll through stop signs in front of me, both while talking on cell phones.
Yep, a woman blew a stop sign while talking on a cell phone and almost took me out while I was on a dedicated bike route with the right of way. She had just done 2 illegal acts and had the audacity to start yelling at me  >:(

Some problems are due to drivers trying to be too courteous to bikers. Sure, they may be trying to be nice and let you cross the road but when that road is two lanes each way and only one lane stops I'm not going.

Offline X-Traction

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2010, 04:58:51 pm »
1. Most accidents between adult bicyclists and motorists are the fault of the motorist.  It is the accidents between children on bicycles and motorists that skew the statistics.  What this means is that if anyone needs to learn to behave, it's the motorists: to have more respect for adult bicyclists (rather than view them as losers), and to expect the unexpected around children on bicycles.  Not to mention being more responsible parents - in terms of preparing their children to be responsible cyclists and setting an example themselves.

2.  Cyclists do not organize to block bicycle-oriented education, licensing and insurance.  North American society chooses to provide only the most minimal "education", and effectively no licensing or education.  In my opinion, this is so that North American society is free to continue marginalizing use of bicycles as appropriate for children and playing.

3. I get tired of people discussing what "cars" do.  Cars are not alive.  They do not do things on their own.  This is like children anthropomizing their stuffed animals.

4. Europe does not have this problem.  To balance the inequity between the weight being thrown around by the two types of road users, and the relative damage that arises from that imbalance, it is typical in Europe for motorists to be assumed at fault in accidents involving motorists and bicyclists.  The motorists quickly learn to give cyclists a wide berth.  And why not?  We need to do the same thing here.

Every time someone proposes putting in some bicycle facility, the media goes bananas about the cost. How can Europe afford universal bicycle facilities?

5. Anyone who thinks motorists are more likely than cyclists to be obeying the laws of the road, is just exhibiting prejudice.  Motorists continually break the rules of the road so habitually that they don't even notice it, or somehow excuse it.  How many motorists consider speeding to be breaking the rules?  In fact, motorists are so lawless that I view them as a culture of lawlessness. Even when I'm driving.  The amount of lawbreaking, bullying, cheating etc. that goes on between motorists is an indictment of the level of civility in North America.

Yes, yes, cyclists break the laws too.  And I think they shouldn't.  But three things.  One is that they break the law less frequently than do motorists.  And two, the consequences are far less severe.  And three, see #2.

6.  I sympathize with the woman who struck the errant cyclist.  But I wonder if she has ever advocated for cyclists' rights, support or facilities.  I doubt it.  I also know from experience that there are a large number of motorists who inconvenience, endanger and harm cyclists without any remorse, and some who even pick fights with cyclists.

7. Cyclists pay taxes too.  If you examine this issue beyond the ignorant knee-jerk charge that cyclists don't pay taxes, you'd eventually find that cyclists subsidize motorists.

8. And following from #7, it is utterly unacceptable that the police do not see it as part of their PAID duties to protect the safety of cyclists.  Other than their annual "crackdown on cyclists", that is.  Their crackdowns do nothing to reduce the majority motorist/cyclist accidents that are the fault of the motorists, and in fact reinforce the motorists' view of cyclists as lawless hooligans.

I have been passed, while cycling, untold thousands of times by motorists who passed me in an unsafe manner. Not one of those people was ever stopped by a cop.  Multiply this by the number of cyclists on the road, and you get a grasp of the extent of the problem.

9. Most adult cyclists today also drive cars.  So outside the need to use the terms to clarify arguments, you can't slot people as cyclists or motorists.  The accusations about who pays taxes are also clearly and immediately undermined by that fact.

10. I'd love to see a study about which motorists have the most accidents with bicyclists, either child or adult cyclists.  I'm willing to bet that the more road cycling some does, the less likely they are as motorists to have accidents with cyclists.  I further believe that they don't see cyclists as illegitimate road users, as habitual traffic law violators, or as slowing their travel.

11.  I haven't even mentioned economic, environmental and health issues.
And some cretins think I hate cars.

Offline Iso Octane

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2010, 05:11:53 pm »
I'm not bothered by cyclists running lights on small streets and rolling through stop signs as long as they don't endanger themselves, and don't obstruct other traffic while doing it.


Offline quadzilla

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Re: Steering You Right: Bicycles and cars
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2010, 05:30:52 pm »
I'm not bothered by cyclists running lights on small streets and rolling through stop signs as long as they don't endanger themselves, and don't obstruct other traffic while doing it.

Some States had their laws changed so that a cyclist can treat STOP as YIELD and RED LIGHT as STOP SIGN.  Of course, when it is safe to do so. If there are other cars around, they have to make proper stops.  Well, that is the short version.