Topic: 2011 BMW 335is; Day 1

[Julie]

  julie i doubt the competition package was necessary for the m3 to win , though i'm sure it helped
their is something you are missing here , that is, "light makes right"  the cts is 279 heavier than the rs5 and whopping 710 lbs heavier than the m3
the cts poor automatic trans also ruled it out -- its also a slow reving engine

the rs has all the credentials to win , but then 278 ls is alot of extra weight , it loses because you feel disconected to the whole driving experience , not what you'd call a real drivers car
so it looses
that leaves the m3 , the much lighter car than the other 2 , so it can have less hp because it has less weight to move around , and to top it it off the m3  happens to be a real drivers car , so naturally the bmw is going to win in this comparo against the other 2 cars

also i might add -- drivers cars are always preferred by car magazines - the way it should be 

It's odd...because with the S4, they thought it was every bit the drivers car (and then some) that the 335 was.  Which is why it won against the 335 in 2-3 comparos I've seen already.

Wonder if the V8 really ruins the RS4 that much?

I agree the S4 has become the new benchmark, although my recollection was that the 335i still edged it out in the 'steering feel' category.

The V8 in the RS4 seems to impress reviewers quite a lot...  I think again it's the feel of being a bit disconnected that hinders the RS4.

SportAuto from Germany also picked the M3 over the RS4, albeit again, it's still a case of 2 very excellent driving machines.  I'd be happy to be in either! 

  julie i doubt the competition package was necessary for the m3 to win , though i'm sure it helped
their is something you are missing here , that is, "light makes right"  the cts is 279 heavier than the rs5 and whopping 710 lbs heavier than the m3
the cts poor automatic trans also ruled it out -- its also a slow reving engine

the rs has all the credentials to win , but is 431 lbs heavier than the m3  , it also looses because you feel disconected to the whole driving experience , not what you'd call a real drivers car
so it looses
that leaves the m3 , the much lighter car than the other 2 , so it can have less hp because it has less weight to move around , and to top it it off the m3 is a real drivers car , so naturally the bmw is going to win in this comparo against the other 2 cars tested

also i might add -- drivers cars are always preferred by car magazines - the way it should be 

Good point on the weight.

[rrocket]

^^I think the ability of AWD is VERY, VERY appealing.  I mean..to go out hooning in the snow....

[Julie]

EDIT:  I forgot to add (and I can't add it now for some reason),

I was surprised Audi went with a naturally aspirated V8 for this newest RS4.  Would have thought with the trend towards twin-turbos....  especially since it's rumored that the M3 will go that way in a couple of years when the new gen comes out.

But you know what, I really like that.  I like free revving engines.

[Julie]

^^I think the ability of AWD is VERY, VERY appealing.  I mean..to go out hooning in the snow....

It is a real practical consideration, although there's (a lot of) controversy on how much more safety it adds compared to a set of dedicated, high-performing winter tires (re previous Car and Driver articles on that).  It adds some, but C & D would argue, 'not enough to give up RWD'.

Still, I liked the performance of the 335xi I tried.  Just preferred the RWD car overall.  With the Audi, when it is optioned out with that... vectoring option (forgot the name), you don't give up any performance due to the AWD.  That is a significant bonus.  (Obviously, I will try it out eventually.  But it doesn't tug on my heartstrings like the 3 series does...)

[bikenut]

rocket ,i don't follow audi much  - i was basing my previous post on julies link ,the only audi i like is the rs with the v 10 in it - because of audis reliability issues they drop below my radar , my wife owned one years ago , i liked it alot but it was in the shop so much we got rid of it

[rrocket]

rocket ,i don't follow audi much  - i was basing my previous post on julies link ,the only audi i like is the rs with the v 10 in it - because of audis reliability issues they drop below my radar , my wife owned one years ago , i liked it alot but it was in the shop so much we got rid of it

Well Audi has big issues years ago....dare I ask what year her Audi was?

[bikenut]

haha,ha - a long time ago , i can't remember the year but i do remember the model
it was alot of fun to drive , spunky , and could really handle . it was the best handling small car i had driven at that point ,it was an audi fox , fuel injected , a real fun car - for a car ha,ha
back then i only owned motorcycles

[initial_D]

Had to look it up.

In North America and Australia, the 80 was sold as the Audi Fox for model years 1973–79, and as the Audi 4000 for model years 1980–87 in the USA.

Pre-80 Audi, ouch!

[roscoe]

The new N55 engine uses the same high pressure fuel pump though.  It appears it's much more of an issue in the States, especially in those areas with high ethanol fuel, than in the Canada or Europe.  I use fuel with 0% ethanol just in case.

First year is a risky one to buy a brand new model IMHO.

There have been plenty of Canadians running into the HPFP issue, believe me. And "first model year" doesn't apply hear, as the problem has been showing up in 2007+ 335i and 2008+ 135i. So it's been going on for awhile.

As for the post that said no probs with his 535i after 21K km, all I can say is, just wait. It will start with longer than usual cranking times and just get worse from there.

To the person who said that the problem has been fixed with the N55, that doesn't help out tens of thousands of N54 owners, now does it?

[roscoe]

And nobody believes me when I post stuff about BMWs not having very good reliability the last few years.

I had the fortune of test driving a 2002 M5 a few years back and for everything I've said about BMWs I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I had the cash. 335d is interesting though I'm willing to bet you could easily chip that puppy and end up with some really impressive numbers and STILL get great fuel economy.

There is a tuner called BMS that currently has a product in beta called Juice Box Diesel. It's a plug and play solution. They claim it adds an extra 70 hp and 100 lb-ft to stock numbers with no impact on fuel economy (at least under normal driving). If I do get that 335d, the JBD is on my radar for sure. And it only costs $250.

[bluelines]

One of the reasons I'm disappointed in the feel of my E91 is because the mandatory xdrive really blunts the performance and agility.

I think what you're referring to on the Audi is the Sports Differential. I don't think it really has anything to do with it being awd -- it simply directs more power to the outside rear wheel when cornering. I love the looks of the S4, and if they sold a wagon here it would certainly be in my driveway right now, but I'd bet that the M3 is still the superior driver's car.

^^I think the ability of AWD is VERY, VERY appealing.  I mean..to go out hooning in the snow....

It is a real practical consideration, although there's (a lot of) controversy on how much more safety it adds compared to a set of dedicated, high-performing winter tires (re previous Car and Driver articles on that).  It adds some, but C & D would argue, 'not enough to give up RWD'.

Still, I liked the performance of the 335xi I tried.  Just preferred the RWD car overall.  With the Audi, when it is optioned out with that... vectoring option (forgot the name), you don't give up any performance due to the AWD.  That is a significant bonus.  (Obviously, I will try it out eventually.  But it doesn't tug on my heartstrings like the 3 series does...)

[rrocket]

And nobody believes me when I post stuff about BMWs not having very good reliability the last few years.

I had the fortune of test driving a 2002 M5 a few years back and for everything I've said about BMWs I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I had the cash. 335d is interesting though I'm willing to bet you could easily chip that puppy and end up with some really impressive numbers and STILL get great fuel economy.

There is a tuner called BMS that currently has a product in beta called Juice Box Diesel. It's a plug and play solution. They claim it adds an extra 70 hp and 100 lb-ft to stock numbers with no impact on fuel economy (at least under normal driving). If I do get that 335d, the JBD is on my radar for sure. And it only costs $250.

Just alters the wastegate (and a fuel trim) to give more boost.  Nothing more.

[No H2O]

They claim it adds an extra 70 hp and 100 lb-ft to stock numbers with no impact on fuel economy (at least under normal driving).

I love "claims". Why don't they have an independent lab confirm them.

[rrocket]

They claim it adds an extra 70 hp and 100 lb-ft to stock numbers with no impact on fuel economy (at least under normal driving).

I love "claims". Why don't they have an independent lab confirm them.

I believe it.  On a diesel?  70HP and 100TQ is a joke and VERY easy to do.

[Julie]

You're right bluelines, it's the differential.  Here's the quote from C & D:

"The car exhibits a relatively high amount of understeer unless fitted with the optional (and by our standards essential) $1100 torque-vectoring rear differential, which transforms the S4 into an oversteering hoon. Suffice it to say, the fun-to-drive quotient grows, too."

I think I read that somewhere else as well (that it's essential to tick off that option box).

One of the reasons I'm disappointed in the feel of my E91 is because the mandatory xdrive really blunts the performance and agility.

I think what you're referring to on the Audi is the Sports Differential. I don't think it really has anything to do with it being awd -- it simply directs more power to the outside rear wheel when cornering. I love the looks of the S4, and if they sold a wagon here it would certainly be in my driveway right now, but I'd bet that the M3 is still the superior driver's car.

^^I think the ability of AWD is VERY, VERY appealing.  I mean..to go out hooning in the snow....

It is a real practical consideration, although there's (a lot of) controversy on how much more safety it adds compared to a set of dedicated, high-performing winter tires (re previous Car and Driver articles on that).  It adds some, but C & D would argue, 'not enough to give up RWD'.

Still, I liked the performance of the 335xi I tried.  Just preferred the RWD car overall.  With the Audi, when it is optioned out with that... vectoring option (forgot the name), you don't give up any performance due to the AWD.  That is a significant bonus.  (Obviously, I will try it out eventually.  But it doesn't tug on my heartstrings like the 3 series does...)

[rrocket]

^^Yes indeed.  You mention the AWD Julie.  Imagine the AWD with some dedicated performance winters?  It would be a hoot!!!

[wing]

Same AWD in the Cayenne works wonders.

[roscoe]

They claim it adds an extra 70 hp and 100 lb-ft to stock numbers with no impact on fuel economy (at least under normal driving).

I love "claims". Why don't they have an independent lab confirm them.

I believe it.  On a diesel?  70HP and 100TQ is a joke and VERY easy to do.

Of course it is. It's easy to do for any turbocharged vehicle. My last car was a MKV GTI on which the dealer installed a program from APR. Bumped the car from 200 hp to well over 250 hp and monster torque. And yes, I had that confirmed on a Dynojet dyno at a shop in my home town.

[dave]

Julie,

Seeing as we're both BMW-fans, I highly recommend you test an S4.  I tested one at Crosby Audi in Kitchener a couple months ago. 

In short, I was impressed.  The car goes like stink.  Simply endless amounts of power on tap.  It's definitely underrated...gotta be closer to 350hp.
 
I goosed the 135i the whole way there and back so I had something to compare it to before and after.  The S4 definitely has more power on the high end, but very comparable off the line and mid-range.  It took me a bit to get used to the transmission in the S4, so that may account for the difference.
 
It handles like it's on rails.  I took it up and down a few highway ramps at silly speeds and it was completely unshakable.  It felt incredibly solid.  Glued.  It also rides a little softer than my car...the BMW rides rougher, feels almost "sportier".
 
The interior is beautiful, but there seemed to be too much going on.  I didn't spend any time playing with all the buttons.  I just looked down at the dash when I got in and it looked complicated and busy.  That's what I love about the 1 series (and BMWs in general), the interiors are always so simple and clutter-free.  Steering wheel was nice...but not thick enough.  I've been spoiled with the meaty BMW/M sport wheels.
 
Incredible seats but I would definitely skip the option for the leather inserts.  I prefer the standard alcantra.  I sat in an A4 S Line and they were much "grippier".  Same seats otherwise.  The backseats are much bigger than the 335i.

My next car will need 4 doors.  Having recently driven a 335i sedan with sport package...it would be a tough decision between the 335i sedan (none xDrive) and S4.

You obviously won't regret the test drive.  The manager at Crosby (Dan) was the previous manager at BMW Waterloo I dealt with while purchasing my 135i in 2008.  The salesman (Dino) at Crosby was also at BMW Waterloo at the time.  Tell them Dave sent another possible BMW convert their way

Anyways, back on topic; love the idea of the 335is but I'd probably go with Dinan or BMW Performance and save some money.  What I'd REALLY like from BMW is a stripped-down, light-weight, performance oriented "tii" versions of the 1 series and 3 series.  The 335is is getting too close to ///M territory...especially since BMW is likely dropping the V8 from the next M3.


 

[Julie]

Julie,

Seeing as we're both BMW-fans, I highly recommend you test an S4.  I tested one at Crosby Audi in Kitchener a couple months ago. 

In short, I was impressed.  The car goes like stink.  Simply endless amounts of power on tap.  It's definitely underrated...gotta be closer to 350hp.
 
I goosed the 135i the whole way there and back so I had something to compare it to before and after.  The S4 definitely has more power on the high end, but very comparable off the line and mid-range.  It took me a bit to get used to the transmission in the S4, so that may account for the difference.
 
It handles like it's on rails.  I took it up and down a few highway ramps at silly speeds and it was completely unshakable.  It felt incredibly solid.  Glued.  It also rides a little softer than my car...the BMW rides rougher, feels almost "sportier".
 
The interior is beautiful, but there seemed to be too much going on.  I didn't spend any time playing with all the buttons.  I just looked down at the dash when I got in and it looked complicated and busy.  That's what I love about the 1 series (and BMWs in general), the interiors are always so simple and clutter-free.  Steering wheel was nice...but not thick enough.  I've been spoiled with the meaty BMW/M sport wheels.
 
Incredible seats but I would definitely skip the option for the leather inserts.  I prefer the standard alcantra.  I sat in an A4 S Line and they were much "grippier".  Same seats otherwise.  The backseats are much bigger than the 335i.

My next car will need 4 doors.  Having recently driven a 335i sedan with sport package...it would be a tough decision between the 335i sedan (none xDrive) and S4.

You obviously won't regret the test drive.  The manager at Crosby (Dan) was the previous manager at BMW Waterloo I dealt with while purchasing my 135i in 2008.  The salesman (Dino) at Crosby was also at BMW Waterloo at the time.  Tell them Dave sent another possible BMW convert their way

Anyways, back on topic; love the idea of the 335is but I'd probably go with Dinan or BMW Performance and save some money.  What I'd REALLY like from BMW is a stripped-down, light-weight, performance oriented "tii" versions of the 1 series and 3 series.  The 335is is getting too close to ///M territory...especially since BMW is likely dropping the V8 from the next M3.


 

Dave, thanks for the suggestion!  I'll definitely tell them you sent me.