Topic: First Drive: 2011 Buick Regal

[Jaeger]

Nothing other than the car is targeted to a different segment of the market. GM has Malibu to compete with Sonata.

Aiming at a target is one thing.  Hitting it is quite another.  GM can say they are targeting whomever they choose, it doesn't mean that the vehicle itself measures up to that target, or even to vehicles "below" that target.

Jaeger

[Dante]

Nothing other than the car is targeted to a different segment of the market. GM has Malibu to compete with Sonata.

Aiming at a target is one thing.  Hitting it is quite another.  GM can say they are targeting whomever they choose, it doesn't mean that the vehicle itself measures up to that target, or even to vehicles "below" that target.

Jaeger

The sales numbers will tell the story if they hit or miss the target not the spec-sheet or media reviews. Remember that the vast majority of the buying population is not car savvy. They have different criteria than you/us which spend time scrutinizing every single car and manufacturer every day.
If GM manages to hit the right buttons of that population, the car will succeed; if not it will fail. Only time will tell.

[dkaz]

With the Regal, you get a quiet ride, it's sportier, likely with a richer interior vs. the Sonata's plastics...

I mean if we're going to knock the Regal... then oh my gawd who the heck would spent so much money on a BMW 3 series or Lexus IS when they can get a SONATA for under $30k???

If you don't enjoy luxury that's fine. Don't get me wrong, the Sonata's a great car at that price, but it's definitely no luxury car.

[Jaeger]

With the Regal, you get a quiet ride, it's sportier, likely with a richer interior vs. the Sonata's plastics...

I mean if we're going to knock the Regal... then oh my gawd who the heck would spent so much money on a BMW 3 series or Lexus IS when they can get a SONATA for under $30k???

If you don't enjoy luxury that's fine. Don't get me wrong, the Sonata's a great car at that price, but it's definitely no luxury car.

With less power motivating significantly more weight, how is the Regal likely to be sportier?

It may well have a nicer interior - I haven't been in the Regal - have you been in both?

I don't think comparing a Sonata to a 3-series makes sense.  I don't think comparing a Regal to a 3-series makes sense.  I do think comparing a Sonata to a Regal makes sense.  At least for me it does.  I'm looking to replace my Altima this fall or next spring, and I'm considering both.  I'm not considering a 3 series.

I don't think the Sonata is a luxury car.  But I'm not at all convinced the Regal is, either.  And at $39k, a Genesis sedan starts to look reallly good.  Care to geuss how badly that one would walk all over the 4-pot Buick?  The 8k jump from Sonata to Genesis sedan I get.  The 8k jump from Sonata to Regal, I don't.  And it has nothing to do with the different "target markets" for Sonata and Genesis Sedan - it has to do with the different attributes of the vehicles themselves.

Jaeger

[Dante]

An argument can be made here that Buick is not really a luxury brand, but somewhere in between mainstream and luxury - a.k.a premium.
This car should compete with Acura TSX, Volvo S60 and perhaps the Passat and whatever MK? from Lincoln.
Definitely the interior of his car is richer, more luxurious than Sonata, Malibu, Camry, Accord, Fusion, etc.
The base model's engine is a let down indeed, no doubt about it, but the upcoming 2.0T should be fine even though it would still have lower power numbers than the Sonata 2.0L. Too much power on the FWD, particularly not very sophisticated platforms, is prone to significant torque steer anyway is it not? IIRC, the 2.0T will have more goodies like adjustable suspension, some fancier steering, upgraded brakes, etc. That model should differentiate even more this car from the mainstream.
Once the car is produced in Canada vs. Germany the price will probably drop as well.

[Jaeger]

The base model's engine is a let down indeed, no doubt about it, but the upcoming 2.0T should be fine even though it would still have lower power numbers than the Sonata 2.0L. Too much power on the FWD, particularly not very sophisticated platforms, is prone to significant torque steer anyway is it not? IIRC, the 2.0T will have more goodies like adjustable suspension, some fancier steering, upgraded brakes, etc. That model should differentiate even more this car from the mainstream.
Once the car is produced in Canada vs. Germany the price will probably drop as well.

Initial reports on the power delivery of the 2.0T Sonata are very good.  My Altima puts 270hp down through the front wheels and torque steer is minimal.

The 2.0t Regal will no doubt be more appealing than the normally aspirated model, but at what cost increase, I can't help but wonder.  If I have a hard time justifying a Regal over a Sonata, I'm going to have an ever harder time justifying a Regal over a G37.

Here's how I see Regal's problem - only a little bit better than models costing substantially less.  Not nearly as good as models costing only a little more.

Jaeger

[Dante]

The base model's engine is a let down indeed, no doubt about it, but the upcoming 2.0T should be fine even though it would still have lower power numbers than the Sonata 2.0L. Too much power on the FWD, particularly not very sophisticated platforms, is prone to significant torque steer anyway is it not? IIRC, the 2.0T will have more goodies like adjustable suspension, some fancier steering, upgraded brakes, etc. That model should differentiate even more this car from the mainstream.
Once the car is produced in Canada vs. Germany the price will probably drop as well.

Initial reports on the power delivery of the 2.0T Sonata are very good.  My Altima puts 270hp down through the front wheels and torque steer is minimal.

The 2.0t Regal will no doubt be more appealing than the normally aspirated model, but at what cost increase, I can't help but wonder.  If I have a hard time justifying a Regal over a Sonata, I'm going to have an ever harder time justifying a Regal over a G37.

Here's how I see Regal's problem - only a little bit better than models costing substantially less.  Not nearly as good as models costing only a little more.

Jaeger

I totally agree that the current Regal package - price/performance is not attractive at all (to me at least). However, a well equipped Regal 2.0T Auto for about $35K would be about right IMO.

[EV Dan]

Nothing other than the car is targeted to a different segment of the market. GM has Malibu to compete with Sonata.

Aiming at a target is one thing.  Hitting it is quite another.  GM can say they are targeting whomever they choose, it doesn't mean that the vehicle itself measures up to that target, or even to vehicles "below" that target.

Jaeger

The sales numbers will tell the story if they hit or miss the target not the spec-sheet or media reviews. Remember that the vast majority of the buying population is not car savvy. They have different criteria than you/us which spend time scrutinizing every single car and manufacturer every day.
If GM manages to hit the right buttons of that population, the car will succeed; if not it will fail. Only time will tell.

I'm having hard time imagining what that segment may be... Young will not want anything Buick, unless its a free grandpa's car. Grandpas and a bit younger won't get a Buick with a 4 pot Sunfire GT engine. The rest of the population, providing the car turns out to be a gem, will have hard time justifying the price tag. It may not be overpriced, but for many ppl with every car purchase comes the image. Why drop 40 grand on it and next year tell the co-workers that it really is a German car, although now it's made in Oshawa, but when I bought it it wasn't.
There are plenty of fine cars that would be on my list if I get to spend 40k. I'd like to see a GM salesperson trying to to win the argument how the Regal is really better (maybe projected depreciation?) than a G37, base 3 series, IS and so on and so forth.
I think I get it. It is the brand loyal in Oshawa and its burbs who will be the target audience, with a generous helping of employee discounts.

[Dante]

I don't know how people bought GM cars of the past in such large numbers, but hey... that's a different story.

[Leviathan]

How Buick proved me wrong

With the new 2011 Regal, Buick might just have a chance here in Canada and down in the States. The Regal, a re-badged Opel Insignia from Germany, is that good, that compelling, that much a value in the entry-luxe world of four-door sedans. After taking the better part of a day firing down the snaking, up-and-down blacktop known as British Columbia’s Highway 3, Buick’s newest model looks like the best in its segment.

[Shnak]

still a Buick...   

[Leviathan]

still a Buick...   

[Dante]

still a Buick...   

I'd say one of the best things about this car is that it is NOT a Buick.

[Jaeger]

I'm having hard time imagining what that segment may be...

Me too.

Jaeger

[Shnak]

still a Buick...   

I'd say one of the best things about this car is that it is NOT a Buick.

The logos on it say differently.

[Jaeger]

still a Buick...   

I'd say one of the best things about this car is that it is NOT a Buick.

That's sure not saying a lot for Buick.

Jaeger

[Dante]

still a Buick...   

I'd say one of the best things about this car is that it is NOT a Buick.

The logos on it say differently.

They are confirmed to be interchangeable with the original (Opel that is). 

[Dante]

still a Buick...   

I'd say one of the best things about this car is that it is NOT a Buick.

That's sure not saying a lot for Buick.

Jaeger

Not for Buick as a brand, but I think it's good for the car itself.

[rrocket]

Jaeger

I think one has to physical drive the two before deciding if one is worth the increase

I think that goes without saying.  However, there are some evident disparities - not the least of which is price - that have me scratching my head.  And the unfavorable power to weight ratio does not suggest that the Buick will provide a more scintilating driving experience than the Sonata.

Jaeger

Thats what I was saying earlier in this thread....you can get a base LaCrosse for the SAME price as the base Regal, and I would say the LaCrosse is even nicer than the Regal.

[rrocket]

How Buick proved me wrong

With the new 2011 Regal, Buick might just have a chance here in Canada and down in the States. The Regal, a re-badged Opel Insignia from Germany, is that good, that compelling, that much a value in the entry-luxe world of four-door sedans. After taking the better part of a day firing down the snaking, up-and-down blacktop known as British Columbia’s Highway 3, Buick’s newest model looks like the best in its segment.

But what is "that segment"??  Based on price, I don't think it's the generic family sedan segment, and based on performance/price/content I don't think it's the entry level luxury sedan segment either.  As I said..for the same money you can get a LaCrosse.  I believe the LaCrosse is a better value/package than a Regal.