Topic: First Drive: 2011 Honda CR-Z

[rrocket]

As soon as you mention the hybrid drivetrain to that crowd, they're out, not interested:”How’re you supposed to tune that?” The Si was one of the cars that launched Honda as the foremost tuner platform.

It's already happening, rather big-time, in Japan.  Some of the biggest tuner houses are all over the CR-Z already.  HKS, Spoon, Noblesse already have tuned CR-Z parts available.  HKS has supercharged the CR-Z, bumping output to 170HP.  Spoon focused a bit on power and more on handling.  Noblesse has spent many hours at various tracks tuning their CR-Zs.  There's already much more aftermarket support for the CR-Z than there are for more mainstream cars...

[dkaz]

The intentions were great but the execution is less than perfect. If not for the lack of power, I would've still rewarded Honda for mating a hybrid with a manual transmission but the poor fuel economy (for a hybrid) makes you wonder if Honda should've got REALLY aggressive and either tuned the system for better economy or more power. Methinks there was a compromise. Sure 122HP is class leading for a 1.5 and 128 ft-lb between 1000 and 1750 rpm is remarkable, but a Civic and Corolla with a non hybrid 1.8 has almost as good fuel economy with comparable power (more HP, but less low end torque, kinda evens each other out).

HKS has supercharged the CR-Z, bumping output to 170HP.  Spoon focused a bit on power and more on handling. 

Well that's more like it!

Still... what was that quote again... adding HP makes you faster on the straights, adding lightweightness makes you faster everywhere?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It's already happening, rather big-time, in Japan.  Some of the biggest tuner houses are all over the CR-Z already.  HKS, Spoon, Noblesse already have tuned CR-Z parts available.  HKS has supercharged the CR-Z, bumping output to 170HP.  Spoon focused a bit on power and more on handling.  Noblesse has spent many hours at various tracks tuning their CR-Zs.  There's already much more aftermarket support for the CR-Z than there are for more mainstream cars...

Interesting, but why bother? It'll always be heavier than competitors due to the hybrid $hit. Much better off starting with a Civic or Fit if you really want to tune something.

It is selling well in Japan, but so did the Insight, which died here.

[msantos]

Hi All;

One very critical design attribute this car possess is the three modes of operation, and when operated in ECON mode then it will deliver VERY good fuel economy. 

In fact, the federal efficiency testing does not include test sequences while in ECON mode and as such, the federal FE ratings do not reflect what a safe and defensive driver (as everyone should be on public roads, right?) can achieve.

Anyway, for anyone wanting to know what this can can achieve when driven outside the track, here is a brief FE expert review covering a great deal of detail.  We will have a Canadian only review pitting the CVT model against the MT6 to further help anyone seriously considering a AT-PZEV T2-B3 vehicle.  Obviously, the projected low production volumes already take into account those who either don't care or don't know what this means.

Week-long test of the 6-speed Honda CR-Z

As a brief summary: Without much effort, this car can easily break the 4.0 L/100km by just driving sensibly and legally.  Throw a bit of effort and experience into it and it likely break the 3.5 mark and lower. 

On the weekends, take it to the track and toss it into the twists knowing that it wont break the wallet or the conscience as much as any other car would. 

Cheers;


MSantos

[Bean_Bandit]

Very nice looking car, but slow and useless. The fit is a way more useful car in every way, and gets great fuel economy. Lighten up the car, throw in the si engine, and then you would have something. Like RacerStu mentioned this is just an image car, and nothing else.

[johngenx]

What has happened??!!  Honda and Toyota lead the import charge with whizz-bang cars like the Celica, Supra, MR2, CR-X, Prelude and so on.  I remember when the Celica All-Trac turbo came out.  Man, I figured Toyota was going to put Audi out of business within no time.  The mid 90's Supra was way too expensive, but an amazing machine.  The last MR2 was kick-ass.

Sure, both firms always offered mass-appeal cars like the Corolla, Accord and so on, but exciting stuff was to be found too, and some at some pretty low prices.

Is this a modern CR-X?  I reserve judgment until I see it and read a lot more, but my fingers are crossed...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

i owned a crx si and it was great because it was truly original in it's time.  it was in a class all by itself.  small, agile, light, and peppy with awesome mileage.  there was nothing like it and it cost nothing to run.  that's why it was so clever.  honda went their own way back then.   the crz doesn't stand out in any way,  it's heavy, overly complicated and is average in every way. when was the last time we looked at a honda product and thought wow that's interesting or innovative.  shame on you honda.  it seems the hyundai veloster is going blow this fat pig out of the water.   no more f1, no s2000s, no nsx, rsx, prelude and no more diesels...how dull you have become honda.  dull dull dull.   

That's what I'm thinking too. Hyundai at least seems to "get" the formula that Honda has abandoned.

[rrocket]

That's what I'm thinking too. Hyundai at least seems to "get" the formula that Honda has abandoned.

Really?  Hyundai only has one truly sporty, great handling car in their line-up.  Honda had many.

[Erik]

Honda STILL has some great handling cars in the lineup. The Civic Si is one of the finest handling FWD cars you can get. Likely better than the GTI, if not quite a Cobalt SS. But close there too. The Fit Sport is by all accounts a very fine handling car. Even the basic Civic, with a 5 speed is a fun car to whip around in.

No, Honda is not what it used to be, but they still know how to make a fun car. I am thinking that the CRZ might end up being a lot of fun, and likely as quick or quicker than the CRX Si we knew and loved.

[rrocket]

That's what I'm thinking too. Hyundai at least seems to "get" the formula that Honda has abandoned.

Really?  Hyundai only has one truly sporty, great handling car in their line-up.  Honda had many.

we are talking about the here and now rrocket.   hyundai will be selling the veloster soon and if rumours are right, it will be as good or better than the crz in the mileage dept. without having to resort to a seemly useless hybrid system. 

I know we're talking the here and now.  I was responding to "at least seems to "get" the formula that Honda has abandoned." And that was EVERY car in the line-up was sprite and fun to drive.

 And with only ONE car that follows Honda's old recipe in the Hyundai line-up, I don't think Hyundai quite has their head wrapped around it....yet.

[Bob Moore]

Does anyone know when Honda/Acura is going to bring direct injection to the table?  Increasingly, other makers are offering it which is a good deal as, not only do such engines make more power, but they run on regular fuel, a savings of at least $0.10/L here in BC.  

[msantos]

All current Honda Hybrids already implement a direct injection variant.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

That's what I'm thinking too. Hyundai at least seems to "get" the formula that Honda has abandoned.

Really?  Hyundai only has one truly sporty, great handling car in their line-up.  Honda had many.

we are talking about the here and now rrocket.   hyundai will be selling the veloster soon and if rumours are right, it will be as good or better than the crz in the mileage dept. without having to resort to a seemly useless hybrid system. 

I know we're talking the here and now.  I was responding to "at least seems to "get" the formula that Honda has abandoned." And that was EVERY car in the line-up was sprite and fun to drive.

 And with only ONE car that follows Honda's old recipe in the Hyundai line-up, I don't think Hyundai quite has their head wrapped around it....yet.

The formula I was referring to was that of the CRX specifically, not their lineup in general.

I can see that it won't be very long before Hyundai has Honda's number across the range though. Lately Honda has been bunting at best, while Hyundai has been swinging for the fences.

[initial_D]

I kinda like this car. Do think it will sell rather well.

[bikenut]

honda is a great company , they have always made driver's cars - all of them
they make more engines than any other company in the world , their car engines sound good and rev freely and their cars have always had a high resale value , though hyundai might be nipping at their heels
they had to buy their tech from someone else ( mitsubishi gave them direct injection )
even the sonata can sound thrashy and doesn't rev as freely as a honda
honda's  vtec of millions of which are on the road has not had one failure -- did you know how much it costs to tune up bmw's vtec ?
$ 8,000 !  - honda has always gone it alone , even toyota is pairing up with tesla and when other car companies were really hurting honda was doing better than most because of their successful motorcycle line -  , they even make clever commercials --- see how many hondas you recognize here , so don't count honda out yet -- lets hope they convert to direct injection to level the playing field -- dandy commerical
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7zuA2PGfE8&NR=1

[hondacura]

This car will sell, because unlike most of Honda's recent offerings, it's not butt ugly, and at least looks sporty.  If it weren't a hybrid, I would be first in line to get a 6-speed just as daily commuter.  But now I would have to think about it since I don't relish the cost of replacing the battery.  But many people won't care due to the low price.

[aknutson]

rrocket, i was directly comparing the crz with the up and coming veloster.   this hybrid system really makes little sense if it isn't going to lift it's mileage way beyond a normally aspirated car's.  hyundai's veloster is going to have more hp and better mileage while sparing us the BS hybrid system.   i just don't understand honda's decisions lately.  it seems they are playing follow the leader now. they could have put their 2.2l diesel in the crz and got better mileage. 

Considering the Veloster isn't actually on the road yet, that comparison can be made when it is. Perhaps the Veloster will skip the hybrid but lack the bountiful torque that an electric motor provides as assist, who knows? It's senseless to compare 'future' cars to ones already on the road.

And as for Hyundai following in Honda's footsteps, I would say Hyundai is more about value than they are fun-to-drive. The Fit is more fun than the Accent, the Civic is better than the Elantra (except the Touring), and the CR-V corners better than the Tucson/Santa Fe. I will reserve judgement on the CR-Z until I have had a chance to drive one, as the review doesn't seem all that bad and I know Honda can make a good sports compact.

[footlong58]

I think this car is great....  128 hp, fun to drive.  2800lbs IS a light car today.

Everyone says this new CRZ is terrible, etc... They forget, the first CRX was lighter yes, but 2800lbs was the weight of an S Class back then.  And the first CRX only had lik 85 hp too.  The original CRX wasn't fast.  But it was fun to drive, just like the new one seems to be...

[D70]

Another fun car.

Just like the Miata there is no need for blistering straight line acceleration or maximizing L per 100 km

This will fill a niche just as the original CRX did and the Miata does. Maybe a convertible version will be in the works

http://www.flickr.com/photos/d70w7/4615053402/in/set-72157623914523541/

[dkaz]

The Echo hatchback at just over 2100 lb was a light car, now that was a fun car to drive despite the piddly 108 HP. The new light is probably the Mazda 2 at just over 2,300 lb. 2,800 lb is not light, but given the batteries, I never expected it to be in the first place.

I think really we can blame government regulations for the new overweight generation of vehicles.