Topic: 2011 Ford Mustang GT; Day 1

[sacrat]

Genesis Coupe for under 20k?  Makes me wish I were in the market for one.

Jaeger

Wait a year Jaeger. Since the Sonata is getting a 2.0 turbo with about 250 HP, I expect the "base" Genesis (210 HP) will have to step up with something similar.

[Jaeger]

Genesis Coupe for under 20k?  Makes me wish I were in the market for one.

Jaeger

Wait a year Jaeger. Since the Sonata is getting a 2.0 turbo with about 250 HP, I expect the "base" Genesis (210 HP) will have to step up with something similar.

The Sonata is a far more likely next-purchase candidate - I'm just not a low-slung Coupe buyer at the moment.

And when the mid-life crisis comes, a socially and ecologically irresponsible V8 Mustang or snarling 370z are topping the list at present.

Jaeger

[TopGun]

Good job on the review Wing.

I like the fact that you compared two very different cars (Miata & Mustang) and showed why someone might choose one over the other rather than just comparing it to cars of the same class.

As much as I like the Mustang, I can help but think I'd really miss the toss-able handling in the RX-8 that I enjoy every day...when the steering works.

[Julie]

As much as I like the Mustang, I can help but think I'd really miss the toss-able handling in the RX-8 that I enjoy every day...when the steering works.

Tossibility, nimbleness, steering feel... all that are really important to me too.  I love my 335i to DEATH, I think it's the perfect balance of everything, but I still get a kick out of driving the (much less powerful) TSX because it's lighter and more tossable.  I've come to the conclusion anything (that feels) heavier than a 335i would be a no-go for me, despite any performance numbers.

[safristi]

tossibility and tossible in the same sentence........... .............   i'm thinking RX8

[Jaeger]

As much as I like the Mustang, I can help but think I'd really miss the toss-able handling in the RX-8 that I enjoy every day...when the steering works.

Tossibility, nimbleness, steering feel... all that are really important to me too.  I love my 335i to DEATH, I think it's the perfect balance of everything, but I still get a kick out of driving the (much less powerful) TSX because it's lighter and more tossable.  I've come to the conclusion anything (that feels) heavier than a 335i would be a no-go for me, despite any performance numbers.

I hear you, I really do.

Jaeger

[TopGun]

tossibility and tossible in the same sentence........... .............   i'm thinking RX8

Their tossable alright...the RX-8 has to be the best used performance car bargain.  Their um....delicateness...makes them cheap cheap cheap.

I just read an 8 page thread on how to fix my power-steering issue...just clean some connectors...spread some di electric grease...and you're good to go!  (cue Saf again...)

[DriverJeff]

As much as I like the Mustang, I can help but think I'd really miss the toss-able handling in the RX-8 that I enjoy every day...when the steering works.

Tossibility, nimbleness, steering feel... all that are really important to me too.  I love my 335i to DEATH, I think it's the perfect balance of everything, but I still get a kick out of driving the (much less powerful) TSX because it's lighter and more tossable.  I've come to the conclusion anything (that feels) heavier than a 335i would be a no-go for me, despite any performance numbers.

The 3 series is still playfully tossable... but the grip is significant enough that you just need some pretty lofty speeds to get it to really dance.  Difficult to do on public roads.

[rrocket]

The 3 series is still playfully tossable... but the grip is significant enough that you just need some pretty lofty speeds to get it to really dance.  Difficult to do on public roads.

Great point.  That really goes for most modern, sporty cars.  They're just so good that you can't come even close to exploiting them on public roads.

[Julie]

The 3 series is still playfully tossable... but the grip is significant enough that you just need some pretty lofty speeds to get it to really dance.  Difficult to do on public roads.

Great point.  That really goes for most modern, sporty cars.  They're just so good that you can't come even close to exploiting them on public roads.

Yeah, good point GD.  Also, the in-line 6 T-T car is heavier than the 328i version of the coupe (although the balance is still 50/50).

[Erik]

The 3 series is still playfully tossable... but the grip is significant enough that you just need some pretty lofty speeds to get it to really dance.  Difficult to do on public roads.

Great point.  That really goes for most modern, sporty cars.  They're just so good that you can't come even close to exploiting them on public roads.

Same issue as I had with the new 550i. Where are you supposed to push it hard? All the rest of the time it felt supremely competant, if a little dead.

[ovr50]

The 3 series is still playfully tossable... but the grip is significant enough that you just need some pretty lofty speeds to get it to really dance.  Difficult to do on public roads.

Great point.  That really goes for most modern, sporty cars.  They're just so good that you can't come even close to exploiting them on public roads.

Why is that a problem? Unless you are the type of driver who always pushes their car to the max, or track it more than use it for a daily driver, having the unused potential is not a problem. It's there if you need/want it; otherwise, it doesn't hinder your driving.

This type of argument ultimately gets back to why doesn't everyone just drive A to B transport boxes, and to hell with "sportiness" or "fun to drive".

I can't use the full capability of my car on the public roads either, but I don't consider that a problem.

[DriverJeff]

Not a problem for most people, per se, Ovr... just that Julie was commenting on how heavy and planted even the 3 -series feels (a car that was traditionally a more nimble / tossable and playful machine).  My response was simply referring to how today's cars offer so much grip (and indeed are so heavy) that a lot of the playful nature of sporting cars from days gone by is engineered right out of them -- or at least doesn't come out to be experienced unless in a track setting.

That was my biggest complaint / disappointment about driving the M6 and Gallardo was that as awesome as the 500+ hp V10 is, the overall experience of driving the car even at super legal speeds was rather uneventful.  Obviously you don't want to be white-knuckling it around every corner, but I feel more connected, or at least that I'm actually driving the car when I can feel a bit of its limitations. 
 

[Jaeger]

The 3 series is still playfully tossable... but the grip is significant enough that you just need some pretty lofty speeds to get it to really dance.  Difficult to do on public roads.

Great point.  That really goes for most modern, sporty cars.  They're just so good that you can't come even close to exploiting them on public roads.

Correct.  Which is why a car with lower, more exploitable limits can ultimately be a more entertaining ride.

Jaeger

[Julie]

At some point, there are diminishing returns for the increased horsepower.

I don't think the 335i is too heavy, but the TSX feels notably more tossable and I realized it's as GB noted, it's because the 3'er is so planted.  Great 50/50 balance, zip/zero/zilch body roll, biiig tires.  You can't upset the car.  Which is really impressive and great! - don't get me wrong - but it's true that, unless you track, you won't feel it close to its limits.

That said, I'm really starting to feel the urge to get into light tracking...  but I'll start with some performance driving courses or something...

[Julie]

Wing, if you read this, how did the Mustang feel - a little heavy or no?  Did you feel like you couldn't upset it?

[wing]

The Mustang feels VERY VERY heavy.  I can upset any car, you aren't trying hard enough

[rrocket]

Why is that a problem? Unless you are the type of driver who always pushes their car to the max, or track it more than use it for a daily driver, having the unused potential is not a problem. It's there if you need/want it; otherwise, it doesn't hinder your driving.

This type of argument ultimately gets back to why doesn't everyone just drive A to B transport boxes, and to hell with "sportiness" or "fun to drive".

I can't use the full capability of my car on the public roads either, but I don't consider that a problem.

Are you forgetting I had a 640HP daily driver??    I wasn't complaining.

[ovr50]

Why is that a problem? Unless you are the type of driver who always pushes their car to the max, or track it more than use it for a daily driver, having the unused potential is not a problem. It's there if you need/want it; otherwise, it doesn't hinder your driving.

This type of argument ultimately gets back to why doesn't everyone just drive A to B transport boxes, and to hell with "sportiness" or "fun to drive".

I can't use the full capability of my car on the public roads either, but I don't consider that a problem.

Are you forgetting I had a 640HP daily driver??    I wasn't complaining.

Right, you did. And I did forget, but I won't again..

[rrocket]

^^
Don't worry Ovr..he'll never let us forget ;-)

It's funny.  Others people who owned Supras are "hooked" for life.  I will definitely own another.  And still annoyed with myself for selling it.