Topic: Long-term test: 2010 Volkswagen Jetta TDI, wrap-up

[rhoro]

Good grief.  How do journalists think they can get away with this?

"The starting MSRP is $22,175 for a base Jetta Trendline with the
five-cylinder gas engine and a manual transmission. ... The least-expensive
Jetta TDI is $2,300 dearer, and that doesn't include $1,400 for the
automatic transmission. ... its higher MSRP means that, ... you'd have to
wait at least a couple of years to make back in lower fuel costs the extra
dough you spent to buy the car."  As a professional, show the math.

According to the above, a Jetta TDI with auto is (22175+2300+1400=) $25,875
+ ~12% taxes = $28,980.  In your article you mention several Asian cars for
comparison on the topic of fuel efficiency, including the Elantra.
Hyundai's web site
(http: //www hyundaicanada com/Pages/buildprice/step2_trims.aspx?model=ELANTR
A) shows a base Elantra with auto is $13,199+12% = $14,782.  A savings of
$14,197.

Transport Canada's fuel ratings page
(http: //oee nrcan gc ca/transportation/tools/fuelratings/ratings-results.cfm
) shows that a Hyundai Elantra (rated as a mid-size car) would cost $1380/yr
in fuel costs by their test standards, and the Volkwagon Jetta TDI Clean
Diesel (a compact) would cost $1276/yr, a reduction of $104/yr.  To simply
breakeven on the added $14782 for buying the Jetta would take 136.5 years!!
This is "at least a couple of years"

[Wheelboy]

In my opinion they shouldn't judge the TDI by its fuel efficiency alone as to do it this way, as you point out, makes the TDI a stupid choice.  But to anyone who has ever driven one, there's more to it than that.  There's the mega torque that all diesels are famous for and the TDI doesn't disappoint in this area.  So, with the TDI, you can have your cake and eat it too - fuel economy of a small 4 and the torque of a powerful V6.  But not just any V6.

Enter me - I'm coming from a 2002 Acura 3.2TL-S with 232lb ft of torque.  This torque makes leisurely driving a supreme pleasure.  I'm ready to replace that car but I don't want to spend well upwards of 40 grand to do it.  The TDI Jetta replaces that torque (236lb ft) for about 30 grand.  No, the Jetta isn't in the same league as my Acura but I know that don't I?  But for one of the best attributes of my current car, it is.

The journalists do the TDI an injustice, they should play up the fuel mileage and the torque.

[SJP]

Diesels can be fun, because of the torque, but you have to learn to live with the narrow power band, just as it starts to feel like it's going, time to shift! Once you get used to it, it can be fine, but it takes some getting used to. Go from a Civic Si to a Jetta diesel, and you are in for in for quite a shock(in the way the engine spins up, not with the amount of torque). If you can get used to it, and enjoy it, it can be satisfying and then I agree, the fuel economy cannot justify the purchase on it's own, especially since it's negated by maintenance costs.

[Julius]

Took the plunge. Purchased the 2010 TDI Highline. I love the car! Only dad it only a couple of weeks in but it's great. Gas mileage is better than my 2009 Corolla so far....

Also, confirmed with the Georgetown Dealer.. Oil and Filer $120. $300 if you want the works. In addition, the DSG fluid change is required every 60K km.

Happy Motoring!

Julius

[JoBlo]

  I'm happy to see with a diesel engine anyone can get the same or better MPG than hybrids.  Hybrids cars are complicated with a battery and other very expensive parts that can fail.
I think that's the way to go to reduce our fuel consumption until we can get other technologies at a good price (electric cars).
Hybrids I think is a technology embraced by auto reporters who may have been too excited and because it's from Japan it's always good no matter what crap come out of the country.
By the way hope reporters are freaking out with Lexus with the engine problem another 270,000 cars recalled imagine the defect in the Prius.

20 years ago Toyota was saying we have hidden quality in ours cars today they are saying hidden problems.

[Mozeby]

  I'm happy to see with a diesel engine anyone can get the same or better MPG than hybrids.  Hybrids cars are complicated with a battery and other very expensive parts that can fail.
I think that's the way to go to reduce our fuel consumption until we can get other technologies at a good price (electric cars).
Hybrids I think is a technology embraced by auto reporters who may have been too excited and because it's from Japan it's always good no matter what crap come out of the country.
By the way hope reporters are freaking out with Lexus with the engine problem another 270,000 cars recalled imagine the defect in the Prius.

20 years ago Toyota was saying we have hidden quality in ours cars today they are saying hidden problems.

I just wish the rest of the automakers in Canada would wake up and start offering us some diesels.  It just sucks that we're pretty much limited to a few models of VW, BMW, and Mercedes.

[quadzilla]

I just wish the rest of the automakers in Canada would wake up and start offering us some diesels.  It just sucks that we're pretty much limited to a few models of VW, BMW, and Mercedes.

And 2 of those 3 offer it only upper models. Wish BMW would bring over their 2L and stuff it in the wagon.

[ar_ken]

Good grief.  How do journalists think they can get away with this?

"The starting MSRP is $22,175 for a base Jetta Trendline with the
five-cylinder gas engine and a manual transmission. ... The least-expensive
Jetta TDI is $2,300 dearer, and that doesn't include $1,400 for the
automatic transmission. ... its higher MSRP means that, ... you'd have to
wait at least a couple of years to make back in lower fuel costs the extra
dough you spent to buy the car."  As a professional, show the math.

According to the above, a Jetta TDI with auto is (22175+2300+1400=) $25,875
+ ~12% taxes = $28,980.  In your article you mention several Asian cars for
comparison on the topic of fuel efficiency, including the Elantra.
Hyundai's web site
(http: //www hyundaicanada com/Pages/buildprice/step2_trims.aspx?model=ELANTR
A) shows a base Elantra with auto is $13,199+12% = $14,782.  A savings of
$14,197.

Transport Canada's fuel ratings page
(http: //oee nrcan gc ca/transportation/tools/fuelratings/ratings-results.cfm
) shows that a Hyundai Elantra (rated as a mid-size car) would cost $1380/yr
in fuel costs by their test standards, and the Volkwagon Jetta TDI Clean
Diesel (a compact) would cost $1276/yr, a reduction of $104/yr.  To simply
breakeven on the added $14782 for buying the Jetta would take 136.5 years!!
This is "at least a couple of years"

Maybe this is why they are at least considered "professional" and you are not...  Have you seen the difference in equipment when it comes to the "base" Jetta vs. the "base" Elantra?  I'm pretty sure apple to apple, the difference won't be $14782..... 

[pro/zack]

anyone know if you can tow with a tdi wagon and what those numbers are ??

[sirAQUAMAN64]

anyone know if you can tow with a tdi wagon and what those numbers are ??

Read this recently... someone said it was in their owner's manual supplement for a 2010+ Golf TDI manual.
On page 29 of the "Supplement," my manual says:
3,300 lbs braked trailer, up to 12% incline
1,543 lbs unbraked trailer, up to 12% incline

I can check mine later if need be. In the past the TDI's have been rated for 1,500lbs, so sounds about right.

[pro/zack]

Aquaman,Thx for the towing info. Very interested in buying this car but need to tow  a small boat (boat/mtr/trlr=1000 lbs Ttl) still a little anxious about maintenance costs. Live in NW Ont and nearest dealers are 3 1/2 hrs away in Wpg or 5 hrs in Thunder Bay.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Aquaman,Thx for the towing info. Very interested in buying this car but need to tow  a small boat (boat/mtr/trlr=1000 lbs Ttl) still a little anxious about maintenance costs. Live in NW Ont and nearest dealers are 3 1/2 hrs away in Wpg or 5 hrs in Thunder Bay.

I've seen them towing boats and compact trailers regularly, but sometimes she sure looks low to the ground in the rear doing so.

Love the car, but I'd be nervous with the dealer that far away too. At least the oil change intervals are long-ish. Do they offer a satellite/related service shop closer to you for regular maintenance? Ask what their service schedule costs are. An oil change/tire rotation at my dealer is about $110, but I called around in Toronto and they were $170+ so does vary quite a bit.

Saw in another thread you had tried the Sonata... mind me asking what else you're considering?

[pro/zack]

Aquaman, thx again for the info. Did look at the Sonata and was a nice car but needed a little more room, our fishing resort business requires supply runs of 200 kms weekly in the summer so room and mpg's were crucial, we have 5 boats and need to change lakes sometimes daily but will only tow those boats 2 or 3 miles and back again (125 lbs German Shepard has to make this trip too). Had an issue with the Hyandai, a pet peeve of mine, noisy cabin and road noise, eh ? Last vehicle was Toyota FJ Cruiser, terrible fuel economy and noise was tiring on long trips, with US tourism at an all time low need to downsize and fuel here now at $1.25/liter so diesel was worth looking into, we do a lot of hwy driving and when it allows will drive all the way to TX coast in winter.

[blur911]

Diesels can be fun, because of the torque, but you have to learn to live with the narrow power band, just as it starts to feel like it's going, time to shift! Once you get used to it, it can be fine, but it takes some getting used to.

Substitute the word diesel for Harley-Davidson and the above statement is also true. 
 Great, if you like driving tractors and other agricultural machinery.  Feels very slow if you've ever driven something sporty.

[Shnak]

Diesels can be fun, because of the torque, but you have to learn to live with the narrow power band, just as it starts to feel like it's going, time to shift! Once you get used to it, it can be fine, but it takes some getting used to.

Substitute the word diesel for Harley-Davidson and the above statement is also true. 
 Great, if you like driving tractors and other agricultural machinery.  Feels very slow if you've ever driven something sporty.

The Jetta TDI does 0-60 MPH in around 8.6s, that's not bad. Pretty sure that's about as quick, if not quicker, than some sporty sedans with big I4's and turbo'd I4.

[blur911]

Diesels can be fun, because of the torque, but you have to learn to live with the narrow power band, just as it starts to feel like it's going, time to shift! Once you get used to it, it can be fine, but it takes some getting used to.

Substitute the word diesel for Harley-Davidson and the above statement is also true. 
 Great, if you like driving tractors and other agricultural machinery.  Feels very slow if you've ever driven something sporty.

The Jetta TDI does 0-60 MPH in around 8.6s, that's not bad. Pretty sure that's about as quick, if not quicker, than some sporty sedans with big I4's and turbo'd I4.

I'm not saying diesels are slow, they can just feel that way.
But really, for non-sporting driving and the real world, diesels are great, especially when matched to a proper transmission.