Topic: Long-term test: 2010 Volkswagen Jetta TDI, wrap-up

[vdk]

Wait the Jetta doesn't come with a rear armrest? 

[Wheelboy]

Wait the Jetta doesn't come with a rear armrest? 

Just in the leather-seated Highline edition.  Not the cloth seat versions - which is what I want.  Pretty cheezy for a $30K+ car eh?  Heck even the Passat doesn't come with one - unless you go to the Highline.  Now the CC comes with the best rear armrest (and rear seats) I've ever seen.  If only it came with a deezle   

[diceman]

I don't thin I would be comparing a car whose trunk can hold 16 cubic feet with a civic or Mazda 3 , no matter how it's classed.

[tpl]

This is the car I want to like.  I think diesel is the way to go compared to any other current "green" technology but VW does its best to stop me buying one -

• DSG transmission - outrageous cost for the maintenance oil change (a few hundred
  dollars), strange driving characteristics (noted already in this thread), failure potential (read the VW forums!).  I'd have a stickshift but my wife (who can drive a stickshift) doesn't want one.
• No rear armrest unless I buy the leather interior model (no different than Corolla anyway).  Cummon - throw in a $5 armrest fer gawd's sake.
• Extra cost ($450?) for ESC.
• Shady dealership network (read the VW forums!) that I've experienced already before I part with my money.
• Color selection.  What a dowdy bunch of colors.  What happened to the nice red they had in recent years?

Jetta TDI - I'm trying really hard to love you.

Have you ever driven a DSG for any length of time.?  I suspect not. 
I agree that the cost of the fluid to refill it is high...so what.  My sample size is only 2 I admit, mine and a good friend's Jetta  but I can find very little to complain about the driving of the transmission.
Do you usually sit in the back seat of your own car?   I know some people do when they have kids but then would the car seat fit with the armrest anyway.
I have only dealt with a mere 4 VW dealers and they have all been fine... for servicing, repairs and "goodwill repairs"
If you bought a GTI not a TDI    ESC is standard and you can get red.  In a year or so  ESC will be standard on all cars.

[SJP]

"I don't thin I would be comparing a car whose trunk can hold 16 cubic feet with a civic or Mazda 3 , no matter how it's classed"

You're right, the Civic has a longer wheelbase, and is hundreds of pounds lighter, no one will ever cross shop them. Different size tires too.

[Wheelboy]

Have you ever driven a DSG for any length of time.?  I suspect not.

I've test driven 4-5 VW's in the past 6 months with DSG from Golf wagon, to Jettas to CC.  I think maybe the Passat had a DSG too.  My mind is blurred.  Compared to a conventional auto tranny they are jerky.  Many forum comments bear out my  impressions.
 

I agree that the cost of the fluid to refill it is high...so what. 

I don't like spending excess money for no good reason.  You and I have spoken about the DSG before.  Its fill method is ridiculous and magnifies the service time excessively.  With a 1" fill tube (like a normal auto tranny) instead of that upside-down fill method needing special equipment, the job could be done in a fraction of the time and cost.

Do you usually sit in the back seat of your own car?

Rarely but my wife and friends do on occasion and deserve an armrest.  Coming from our Acura TL her scorn for the Jetta's lack of this simple and inexpensive "luxury" was great.

I have only dealt with a mere 4 VW dealers and they have all been fine... for servicing, repairs and "goodwill repairs"

Can you give names so I may place them on my list?

If you bought a GTI not a TDI    ESC is standard and you can get red.  In a year or so  ESC will be standard on all cars.

I'm aware of all the facts you have mentioned.  The GTI is not an acceptable choice.  The only VW I would consider is a TDI.  I'd buy a CC in a heartbeat if it came in TDI, red and non-leather.  Every car we've tested in the past 9 months is so much of a compromise we're still driving our old car.  If I needed a car tomorrow I would not know what to buy.

[kard00d]

Not as good as a TL and more expensive than a Civic ... what was VW thinking?

[SJP]

Other than a couple of test drives, I do not have much experience with the DSG, but it seems like it might be a little ambitious to put one in an everyday economical car. The benefits are far out weighed by it's complexity and cost. Maybe there is a reason why they are most often used in much higher priced hardware. I would rather a traditional manual anyway.

[JeffyBoy]

but its higher MSRP means that, as with a hybrid, you’d have to wait at least a couple of years to make back in lower fuel costs the extra dough you spent to buy the car

Is anybody else sick of hearing this comment over and over and over?

When faced with, say, a Camry with a 4-cyl base engine and a 6-cyl option (or "premium") engine, no one would ever dream of saying "You'll never make your money back on the 6-cyl engine...".

So why, as soon as you choose the premium engine in a VW - which, granted, happens to be a more fuel-efficient diesel - is the knee-jerk reaction to always to comment on how long it will take to recoup the cost?  What if I chose the TDI because it's better engine and fuel economy never really entered into it?

Because that's what I did when I bought my 2010 Golf.  I had driven a Rabbit with the 5-cyl, and I found it very pedestrian and kind of moany.  I had also driven a TDI Jetta and was startled by the smoothness (I honestly haven't driven a smoother engine) and the effortless power.  That's what sold me.  Not the prospect of getting ~6.5 L / 100 km.  That's just a side bonus.  To wit, when I bought my Golf, there was a 2009 Rabbit sitting on the showroom floor - deeply discounted, and since there was very little wiggle room on the new Golf (and I was buying a higher trim level), the Rabbit was almost $10K less than the Golf I was buying.  It never crossed my mind for a second to buy the Rabbit, even though it would - in the flawed thinking - take me over 10 years to recoup the cost.  Some people just don't care....

[Fitster]

Expensive to buy, expensive to service, worse fuel economy than my 07 Honda Fit (last tank: 5.79 L/100km city) and famously sub-standard VW quality - sounds to me that it's not only the diesel that stinks!  

[tpl]

@Wheelboy. I accept all your reasoning as you have laid it out.     I wonder why the DSG is jerky with TDI but not with the 2.0T. Different programming I guess.
I never argued about the fill method of the DSG ... pretty stupid.
CC= Passat CC ?    I would not buy a CC but a regular Passat 2.0T or Passat wagon with TDI and either manual or DSG but NOT a slushbox is certainly on my list. Last time I looked the lack of HIDs would have been a show stopper but that has changed now on the Highline. 

[Wheelboy]

@Wheelboy. I accept all your reasoning as you have laid it out.     I wonder why the DSG is jerky with TDI but not with the 2.0T. Different programming I guess.

The Passat CC has a gas engine and DSG.  I wasn't 100% sure of my facts and asked the dopey sales guy if it had DSG before my test drive.  He said it didn't.  Then I drove it and wondered why the car shifted (in stop-go traffic) jerkily (relative to a normal automatic).  When I returned home I found that the CC did have DSG.  DSG = jerky in stop-go.  Salesman = jerk in knowledge base.

I never argued about the fill method of the DSG ... pretty stupid.

I'd like to ask a knowledgeable VW mechanic (maybe that's oxymoronic?) why VW did such a silly thing.  I used to overhaul auto trannys years ago (yes we used to do that and yep I'm aware the DSG isn't a true auto) and I'd see through any BS.

[jpd]

I do really love my new golf TDI and its DSG tranny.  I would not change it before a while. I do not have any problem with it.  NO PROBLEM AT ALL!

But if there is a lag,  it is perfectly ''synchronised'' with my old basal brain activity!!!!!!!!!!!

[quadzilla]

DGG = jerky in stop-go.

This must be a case by case thing as I don't have that issue with my car.

[Wheelboy]

DGG = jerky in stop-go.

This must be a case by case thing as I don't have that issue with my car.

When I use that term I don't mean like my first drive with stickshift & clutch as a teenager, but the DSG's I've test driven weren't as smooth as a "real" auto - just in the idle to drive and slow speed to stop transitions.  Once under way their shifts were not noticeable.

[quadzilla]

DGG = jerky in stop-go.

This must be a case by case thing as I don't have that issue with my car.

When I use that term I don't mean like my first drive with stickshift & clutch as a teenager, but the DSG's I've test driven weren't as smooth as a "real" auto - just in the idle to drive and slow speed to stop transitions.  Once under way their shifts were not noticeable.

That is actually what I thought you meant. I wonder if its a 'learning" issue with the tranny? Being that the car is new and driven by many people in many ways, the computer can't figure out a pattern....who knows.

[tpl]

DGG = jerky in stop-go.

This must be a case by case thing as I don't have that issue with my car.

When I use that term I don't mean like my first drive with stickshift & clutch as a teenager, but the DSG's I've test driven weren't as smooth as a "real" auto - just in the idle to drive and slow speed to stop transitions.  Once under way their shifts were not noticeable.

I have found that you can provoke severe jerks from the DSG. It is possible to get it to do 2 downward changes when it is expecting to change up.  Hard accel from rest and then suddenly slam on the brakes at 50+ kph and then accel  hard again will do it. That is a pretty severe test.

[Wheelboy]

I have found that you can provoke severe jerks from the DSG. It is possible to get it to do 2 downward changes when it is expecting to change up.  Hard accel from rest and then suddenly slam on the brakes at 50+ kph and then accel  hard again will do it. That is a pretty severe test.

I've read quite a lot about DSG operation and theory and it's a "pre-selector" gearbox that assumes the next shift.  So as you say, you could easily trick it by knowing what its next move normally is (say 3-4 shift) and then flooring the pedal to give a 3-2 downshift instead.  I don't have any experience doing that but I'll bet a $1 that I could feel it re-assess its operation.

[Wheelboy]

Questions for you VW peeps here -

Would you buy another VW?

Same question for the TDI & DSG people.

Would you do it again?  Feel free to share your reasons why or why not.  I want a new car and I've considered everything from a Civic to a MB C-class.  And for some unknown reason I keep coming back to lusting for a Jetta TDI.  Why, I dunno.  Maybe I'm nuts.  I'm certainly confused.   

 

[vdk]

Questions for you VW peeps here -

Would you buy another VW?

Same question for the TDI & DSG people.

Would you do it again?  Feel free to share your reasons why or why not.  I want a new car and I've considered everything from a Civic to a MB C-class.  And for some unknown reason I keep coming back to lusting for a Jetta TDI.  Why, I dunno.  Maybe I'm nuts.  I'm certainly confused.   

 

Most definitely. Had 1 electrical problem with my car in 2.5yrs/60k. By the time I got to the dealership everything was back to normal. It was in service for a day. That's it.