Topic: Inside Story: 2010 Hyundai Genesis 4.6

[Mitlov]

This is the bottom line:

Your at the hotel's front desk checking in and the clerk asks for the make and plate of your ride and you say "Genesis".  The clerk will give you that look and then politely ask again.  At which point you have no choice and you say in a low voice, "Hyundai".  Hopefully, the guest beside you at the front desk, also checking in, won't see the clerk's tiny smirk.

I somehow don't think I will ever become so pathetic and utterly shallow that the degree to which my car impresses a hotel clerk even registers in my consciousness, much less matters so much to me that it would inform my purchase decision.  I'm guessing Genesis sedan buyers would be embarrassed to be mistaken for the type of person trying impress others with his luxury brand vehicle.  You know, the kind of pretentious clown who manages to work "BMW" or "Mercedes" into any conversation so everyone knows he drives one?

It goes without saying that superficial brand whores will lust after brand names.  The question isn't really whether the Genesis is, or can become a luxury brand, but whether it is and can become recognized as a legitimate luxury vehicle.  I say it is, and it will.

Jaeger

+1.  Thank you.

And AS, if you really care what clerks think, they probably think that people in Bentleys are rich d-bags who more often than not treat staff poorly.  And a good number of those clerks probably get to work in Elantras, so I doubt they look down on people in Genesi.  "I'm going to smirk because this customer drives the same brand that I do"?  Wha?

[Erik]

This is the bottom line:

Your at the hotel's front desk checking in and the clerk asks for the make and plate of your ride and you say "Genesis".  The clerk will give you that look and then politely ask again.  At which point you have no choice and you say in a low voice, "Hyundai".  Hopefully, the guest beside you at the front desk, also checking in, won't see the clerk's tiny smirk.

I somehow don't think I will ever become so pathetic and utterly shallow that the degree to which my car impresses a hotel clerk even registers in my consciousness, much less matters so much to me that it would inform my purchase decision.  I'm guessing Genesis sedan buyers would be embarrassed to be mistaken for the type of person trying impress others with his luxury brand vehicle.  You know, the kind of pretentious clown who manages to work "BMW" or "Mercedes" into any conversation so everyone knows he drives one?

It goes without saying that superficial brand whores will lust after brand names.  The question isn't really whether the Genesis is, or can become a luxury brand, but whether it is and can become recognized as a legitimate luxury vehicle.  I say it is, and it will.

Jaeger

+1.  Thank you.

And AS, if you really care what clerks think, they probably think that people in Bentleys are rich d-bags who more often than not treat staff poorly.  And a good number of those clerks probably get to work in Elantras, so I doubt they look down on people in Genesi.  "I'm going to smirk because this customer drives the same brand that I do"?  Wha?

But what Artic states is true. (Can't believe I said that - First time for everything!)

No one really needs more car than a Toyota Camry. Is there really a better automotive appliance made then that?

And yet, under the Lexus brand, you can buy mechanically the exact same vehicle, for $10,000 more. (Or only a couple of grand if you compare base Lexus to loaded Camry.

Are these people really going to get a better car for the extra money? Of course not. Will they get extra satisfaction, and some snob appeal by driving a Lexus over a Toyota? Certainly they will.

We live in an incredibly brand conscious world. Style is totally triumphing over substance, but sadly, that is how the world works nowadays.

And Mitlov, while those clerks maybe riding to work in Hyundai's, they are likely dreaming of MB's or Lexi or Audis or Ferraris or Jaguars or whatever they aspire to. They may not like the guy in the Bentley, but they likely would want to be the guy in the Bentley.

[safristi]

......umm....CLERK "K*NT sez this.................... ............SUPER_SIZE me MAN.......

[aquadorhj]

Style is totally triumphing over substance, but sadly, that is how the world works nowadays.

I respectfully disagree.   Style always triumphed over substance in the minds of half of the human race(probably roughly).   the other half always prefers substance over style. 

just look at any engineers you know.  most will not be wearing lux brand clothing... and if they are, that's probably because their wives made them.

And Mitlov, while those clerks maybe riding to work in Hyundai's, they are likely dreaming of MB's or Lexi or Audis or Ferraris or Jaguars or whatever they aspire to. They may not like the guy in the Bentley, but they likely would want to be the guy in the Bentley.

I would love a bentley...  or Aston, for that matter...  yeah..  Aston..

[Erik]

Style is totally triumphing over substance, but sadly, that is how the world works nowadays.

I respectfully disagree.   Style always triumphed over substance in the minds of half of the human race(probably roughly).   the other half always prefers substance over style. 

just look at any engineers you know.  most will not be wearing lux brand clothing... and if they are, that's probably because their wives made them.

And Mitlov, while those clerks maybe riding to work in Hyundai's, they are likely dreaming of MB's or Lexi or Audis or Ferraris or Jaguars or whatever they aspire to. They may not like the guy in the Bentley, but they likely would want to be the guy in the Bentley.

I would love a bentley...  or Aston, for that matter...  yeah..  Aston..

I do think things have gotten worse tho.

If you ever get to take a look at mens fashion magazines from the 30's (the golden age of mens fashion), you will find that brands get very little discussion, while quality and construction and materials get a lot. Branding, as it is done now, is a pretty new thing.

[aquadorhj]

If you ever get to take a look at mens fashion magazines from the 30's (the golden age of mens fashion), you will find that brands get very little discussion, while quality and construction and materials get a lot. Branding, as it is done now, is a pretty new thing.

I never had opportunities to look at men's fashion magazines from 30's..  let alone this millennium.   GQ's or Maxim looks more like collection of ad's than collection of articles.

but yes, I do get your point now.    Branding IS a fairly recent thing, in the grand scheme of things, but that was a ground-breaking marketing stuff back then right?   it worked originally because it made shopping a simpler task.

People recognized and associated certain brand with quality, so you wouldn't have to actually worry about construction and material.    like caterpillar gears.  because of branding, you would almost instinctively KNOW it's good for field work. (or something..  i don't own any caterpillar...)   or Sony in the 70's and 80's.

Luxury branding, on the other hand, is really an illusion.    Yes, quality and construction may be paramount( patek philip or rolex ) but most lux brands are just for show.    take Gucci plastic bracelet for example. it doesn't provide any significance on material, technology or quality.. or arguably even fashion.... just a name stamped on something made in china..  with exorbitant price.

Hyundai Genesis is really different though.  because It's actually functional.  it doesn't have a lux name brand cachet, but it does everything a lexus might do, better and/or cheaper..    Like No name HDMI cable vs Monster cable. 

Your point that Hyundai lacking lux cachet working against it is very valid point, but
some people(most likely sensible ones) may actually like that.

[Jaeger]

Your point that Hyundai lacking lux cachet working against it is very valid point, but some people (most likely sensible ones) may actually like that.

Amen.

Jaeger

[Dante]

What is so wrong to accept the fact that the Genesis is a nameplate under Hyundai brand and because of that it cannot be a luxury car? It was Hyundai's choice to market the car this way.

This is Hyundai's flagship car and like any other manufacturer it is the showcase for the brand's capabilities and their best car. Any flagship car from any manufacturer that has one (e.g. Nissan Maxima, Ford Taurus, Toyota Avalon) has a lot of luxury features, the best powertrains, best interiors etc. without being called a "luxury" car. I fail to see what’s different in this case?

Hyundai came up with a great flagship car, most likely better than any other flagship car in the mainstream, but it's still a Hyundai and nothing more.

[Mitlov]

And Mitlov, while those clerks maybe riding to work in Hyundai's, they are likely dreaming of MB's or Lexi or Audis or Ferraris or Jaguars or whatever they aspire to. They may not like the guy in the Bentley, but they likely would want to be the guy in the Bentley.

They may think Mercs and Audis are cool, but that doesn't mean they look down on someone in a Genesis.  That was my point.

If you ever get to take a look at mens fashion magazines from the 30's (the golden age of mens fashion), you will find that brands get very little discussion, while quality and construction and materials get a lot. Branding, as it is done now, is a pretty new thing.

For what it's worth, the fashion articles in modern GQ are about look, not name brands.  Lots of discussion of what the proper cut is for a suit, how to properly accessorize, etc.  Very little discussion about what (if anything) makes Armani better than Joseph Abboud, or what (if anything) makes Joseph Abboud better than Alfani.

[Jaeger]

What is so wrong to accept the fact that the Genesis is a nameplate under Hyundai brand and because of that it cannot be a luxury car?

Because you think that there exists some kind of law that a luxury car MUST have a separate luxury nameplate.  What you don't seem to understand is that, for some, it is quality, features, performance and content that make a luxury vehicle - not nameplate.  By your definition a bare bones Audi A3 is a "luxury car" but a VW Phaeton is not.  I don't buy that simplistic distinction.

Why is it so hard for YOU to understand that others can see past the nameplate - even if you yourself can't?

Jaeger

[rrocket]

What is so wrong to accept the fact that the Genesis is a nameplate under Hyundai brand and because of that it cannot be a luxury car? It was Hyundai's choice to market the car this way.

This is Hyundai's flagship car and like any other manufacturer it is the showcase for the brand's capabilities and their best car. Any flagship car from any manufacturer that has one (e.g. Nissan Maxima, Ford Taurus, Toyota Avalon) has a lot of luxury features, the best powertrains, best interiors etc. without being called a "luxury" car. I fail to see what’s different in this case?

Hyundai came up with a great flagship car, most likely better than any other flagship car in the mainstream, but it's still a Hyundai and nothing more.

Well I guess the people buying them don't agree with you, since ~40% of the buyers are coming from established luxury brands Lexus, Porsche, MB and BMW.  Yes...I'll find the link shortly. 


"Ewanick also said that 90 percent of all Genesis buyers are new Hyundai customers, and 40 percent of buyers traded in Lexus, BMW, Mercedes or Porsche vehicles."

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6391244/news/2009-hyundai-genesis-sales-on-target/index.html

[Sir Osis of Liver]

There are a few Genesis sedans around Regina. I quite like the look, and the interiors look very nice.

If i were in the market, it would be high on my must see list. I'm more interested in content than nameplate.

[Dante]

Well I guess the people buying them don't agree with you, since ~40% of the buyers are coming from established luxury brands Lexus, Porsche, MB and BMW.  Yes...I'll find the link shortly. 


"Ewanick also said that 90 percent of all Genesis buyers are new Hyundai customers, and 40 percent of buyers traded in Lexus, BMW, Mercedes or Porsche vehicles."

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6391244/news/2009-hyundai-genesis-sales-on-target/index.html

The article is rather old and it's coming from someone with vested interest to promote the car and its luxury aspirations. Also, at the time the car was new on the market with a hefty marketing budget. What's the status now, a year later?
I'd be interested to see the more recent numbers. As I posted earlier, in Canada, the Genesis sedan is the only Hyundai nameplate posting a sales drop in March when the market is up and Hyundai is up double digits.
Going by the Genesis US sales (aprox 2000 units) and the said percentage between sedan and coupe (1/3 sedan, 2/3 coupe) the number should be below 1000 units which would also be a drop.

Yeah, I agree that there should be some small number of people who would pick a Genesis over an established luxury brand, but don't forget that the times are tough even for the people that used to be well off.

[DriverJeff]

As I understand it, all over Europe A4s and C and E class Benzes are used in very pedestrian roles (cop cars, taxis, etc.).  An A-class Benz or (as pointed out above), a base model A3 has a so-called luxury brand, but is nowhere near the luxury car a base model Genesis is.  An SLS or SLR is sold in the same dealership as a B-class here, imagine the humiliation those buyers must feel having to share the same sales floor space with those plebeians.  

Those who are deriding Hyundai -- have you been in a dealership lately?  I haven't in almost a year -- but when I was, the sales experience was refreshing.  The salesperson I had the pleasure of dealing with was enthusiastic, professional, knowledgeable and helpful.  I wish I could say the same for the experiences I've had in Honda, Mazda and Nissan (Infiniti too!) dealers in the past year which seem to have picked up the slimeball sales forces who lost their jobs when AMC went under.  

The difference in cost (and presumably the 'snack bracket' ) between an IS250 and an LS600h is far, far greater than the difference between an Accent and a Genesis.  Do LS buyers hang their heads in shame because they have to be served in a dealership that also sells lowly IS250s to the masses?  Is Infiniti considered a luxury brand?  The three different Infiniti dealerships I've been in have all had shared showrooms with Nissan.  Eww... Sentra owners.... how low brow!  

Worst of all though... when I take my BMW into the local dealership, I have to drive into the same service bay as those urban hippies driving MINIs!  The horror!  What would my peers say if they saw me slumming like that?!  

When Lexus was introduced, it didn't have any cachet with the valets either.  When people started realizing the product was world class, the reputation followed suit in short order.  The respect for Hyundai's brand may not be there yet, but there's definite truth in the the "Smart is in" slogan Hyundai is touting and more and more people are going to buy into it.  

[Dante]

What is so wrong to accept the fact that the Genesis is a nameplate under Hyundai brand and because of that it cannot be a luxury car?

Because you think that there exists some kind of law that a luxury car MUST have a separate luxury nameplate.  What you don't seem to understand is that, for some, it is quality, features, performance and content that make a luxury vehicle - not nameplate.  By your definition a bare bones Audi A3 is a "luxury car" but a VW Phaeton is not.  I don't buy that simplistic distinction.

Why is it so hard for YOU to understand that others can see past the nameplate - even if you yourself can't?

Jaeger

First of all, no need to shout and assume I don't understand (I do)... Let's keep it polite even though we have different opinions on the matter.
The Phaeton, while an amazingly executed car, as good perhaps as the Audi, had failed as a luxury car. This is the most prominent example of a super-high quality vehicle with a wrong badge.
For me, one of the differences between luxury and faux-luxury is the difference between real wood and woodgrain trim or silver painted plastic and aluminum trim.

[Dante]

IMO, the key is a new brand if they really want to get into the luxury market. Until then .... it's just another excellent Hyundai car.

[Mitlov]

For me, one of the differences between luxury and faux-luxury is the difference between real wood and woodgrain trim or silver painted plastic and aluminum trim.

I don't like fake wood either.  That said, Acura uses fake wood and both BMW and Mercedes use fake leather.  Lexus uses plenty of silver-painted plastic.  Just for the record.

[Triple Bob]

Sorry, my comment was in response to Mitlov's post :..."For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge."

No RWD 375hp V8 in the mainstream but I would see the Taurus (AWD, EcoBoost), Maxima and Buick LaCrosse as alternatives for this market.

But since you brought this up, does RWD, 375hp V8 and all the features in the world make a luxury vehicle? I think we can agree to disagree here.

Yes, I believe it does.  Your definition of a luxury vehicle is clearly different than mine.  For me, I don't simply look at the symbol on the hood, I look at what is offered in terms of features, fit and finish, performance, etc in respect to what is offered by other manufacturers.  While Hyundai is not a luxury car manufacturer in general, the Genesis Sedan IS a luxury Sedan.  The badge on the hood means absolutely nothing to me, but I guess it does to you.  To each their own. 


Was G8 GT/GXP a luxury vehicle? It was RWD, V8, 350/400 hp. IMO it was not although it had many high end features too.
No, the badge it's not everything for a luxury car, but it's a must. The luxury IMO is in the design, execution, materials, technology, attention to details, exclusivity, etc.

The Genesis interior, while it is fine overall, it just doesn't inspire luxury to me. Te exterior is a bit better in this respect.
If I was a true luxury buyer and not a wanabe (money not an issue), I would certainly look elsewhere.

Having, said that, for the first serious shot at luxury, Hyundai did very well except that it should start a luxury brand from scratch just like Toyota, Honda, Nissan did. Trying to convert Hyundai into a premium/luxury brand it's not going to work. Until very recently, Hyundai was a bottom of the barrel manufacturer. It takes more than few years to jump to the luxury. In addition, having a brand to sell both mainstream and (truly) luxury cars it's not going to work IMO.

This is just my opinion of course....

Carcrazy it doesn't matter what you consider your opinion of a luxury car is, nor does it matter what your opinion of brand marketing is, or interior fineness.  What does matter is that you've already stated on another thread (and it's painfully obvious) that you are biased against Hyundai.  So all your bleating in this thread holds no weight.

Of course it's OK for everyone to have differeing opinions, but don't pretend that you're talking about the car on it's merits, 'cos you're not.

 

[Jaeger]

Well I guess the people buying them don't agree with you, since ~40% of the buyers are coming from established luxury brands Lexus, Porsche, MB and BMW.  Yes...I'll find the link shortly. 

"Ewanick also said that 90 percent of all Genesis buyers are new Hyundai customers, and 40 percent of buyers traded in Lexus, BMW, Mercedes or Porsche vehicles."

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6391244/news/2009-hyundai-genesis-sales-on-target/index.html

Excellent point.  Another intersting bit of info from the article is that 90% of Genesis sedan buyers are new to the Hyundai brand.  So let's see - they are attracting owners of existing luxury brands and bringing in new buyers to their own brand at the (existing) top end.  Seems like they might be on to something.

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

Carcrazy it doesn't matter what you consider your opinion of a luxury car is, nor does it matter what your opinion of brand marketing is, or interior fineness.  What does matter is that you've already stated on another thread (and it's painfully obvious) that you are biased against Hyundai.  So all your bleating in this thread holds no weight.

Of course it's OK for everyone to have differeing opinions, but don't pretend that you're talking about the car on it's merits, 'cos you're not.

 

Well yes, there's that as well... 

And I think it the most obvious hubris for one to elevate one's own personal preference / bias to the level of some universal and intractable rule of general application.

Jaeger