Topic: Inside Story: 2010 Hyundai Genesis 4.6

[Jaeger]

The luxury market is very particular, I think you don't want to distance yourself too much from the competition right out of the gate.

Then why didn't Lexus fail miserably?  The brand had zero "image" back then in the luxury context.  They didn't distance themselves from the competition with dramatic and unique styling.  Conservative, derivative and inoffensive best describe the original LS.  That, and high quality with high feature content for a good deal less $$ than the (then) existing luxury competitors seemed to be a winning combination for them.  Sound familiar?

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

What mainstream cars have all of the features that the Genesis has, including RWD and a 375HP V8 for $50k?  Also IMHO, a luxury badge is not the only criteria that make a luxury car. 

While many people who buy luxury cars just want the prestige, others actually want the luxury itself and don't care about the prestige.  The Genesis Sedan offers the luxurious interior and luxurious driving experience of an E-Class or Lexus GS in a way that a Camry XLE simply doesn't.

Exactly correct.

Jaeger

[Dante]

The senior partner at my law firm purchased a Hyundai Genesis sedan.  For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge.  Maybe people like him are a minority among luxury buyers.  But so long as Hyundai makes a profit off each sale, I doubt Hyundai cares that their sales numbers won't surpass the Merc E-Class.  I doubt the people who actually buy the Genesis Sedan will care either.

I remember you had mentioned this before, but this doesn't change the way the world works. Many mainstream cars offer all that so he wasn't actually after a luxury car (which includes a luxury badge).

What mainstream cars have all of the features that the Genesis has, including RWD and a 375HP V8 for $50k?  Also IMHO, a luxury badge is not the only criteria that make a luxury car. 

The badge is not everything, but a significant part of the whole "luxury" thing. Much more than RWD and V8 I'd say.

[Dante]

The luxury market is very particular, I think you don't want to distance yourself too much from the competition right out of the gate.

Then why didn't Lexus fail miserably?  The brand had zero "image" back then in the luxury context.  They didn't distance themselves from the competition with dramatic and unique styling.  Conservative, derivative and inoffensive best describe the original LS.  That, and high quality with high feature content for a good deal less $$ than the (then) existing luxury competitors seemed to be a winning combination for them.  Sound familiar?

Jaeger

Not entirely. Lexus was a stand-alone brand not namplates under Toyota brand. Big difference IMO.
This is exactly what Hyundai is lacking here. The Genesis is sold and serviced under the same roof as the Accent.
It's a matter of marketing not product.

[CanuckS2K]

The senior partner at my law firm purchased a Hyundai Genesis sedan.  For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge.  Maybe people like him are a minority among luxury buyers.  But so long as Hyundai makes a profit off each sale, I doubt Hyundai cares that their sales numbers won't surpass the Merc E-Class.  I doubt the people who actually buy the Genesis Sedan will care either.

I remember you had mentioned this before, but this doesn't change the way the world works. Many mainstream cars offer all that so he wasn't actually after a luxury car (which includes a luxury badge).

What mainstream cars have all of the features that the Genesis has, including RWD and a 375HP V8 for $50k?  Also IMHO, a luxury badge is not the only criteria that make a luxury car. 

The badge is not everything, but a significant part of the whole "luxury" thing. Much more than RWD and V8 I'd say.

You never answered my question though.  What "mainstream" vehicle competes with the Genesis when it comes to features, performance, price point, etc?  You stated that "many" do, I'd like to know what they are. 

Regarding the badge thing, how does a company become a so-called luxury brand?  IMO, it offers luxury features not found on mainstream vehicles......which is what the Genesis has done IMO.  Just because it doesn't have a propeller or a 3 point star on the hood doesn't mean it can't be a luxury vehicle.  Mercedes has their compact B series, just because it has the symbol on the hood doesn't mean it's a luxury vehicle. 

[Dante]

The senior partner at my law firm purchased a Hyundai Genesis sedan.  For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge.  Maybe people like him are a minority among luxury buyers.  But so long as Hyundai makes a profit off each sale, I doubt Hyundai cares that their sales numbers won't surpass the Merc E-Class.  I doubt the people who actually buy the Genesis Sedan will care either.

I remember you had mentioned this before, but this doesn't change the way the world works. Many mainstream cars offer all that so he wasn't actually after a luxury car (which includes a luxury badge).

What mainstream cars have all of the features that the Genesis has, including RWD and a 375HP V8 for $50k?  Also IMHO, a luxury badge is not the only criteria that make a luxury car. 

The badge is not everything, but a significant part of the whole "luxury" thing. Much more than RWD and V8 I'd say.

You never answered my question though.  What "mainstream" vehicle competes with the Genesis when it comes to features, performance, price point, etc?  You stated that "many" do, I'd like to know what they are. 

Regarding the badge thing, how does a company become a so-called luxury brand?  IMO, it offers luxury features not found on mainstream vehicles......which is what the Genesis has done IMO.  Just because it doesn't have a propeller or a 3 point star on the hood doesn't mean it can't be a luxury vehicle.  Mercedes has their compact B series, just because it has the symbol on the hood doesn't mean it's a luxury vehicle. 

Sorry, my comment was in response to Mitlov's post :..."For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge."

No RWD 375hp V8 in the mainstream but I would see the Taurus (AWD, EcoBoost), Maxima and Buick LaCrosse as alternatives for this market.

But since you brought this up, does RWD, 375hp V8 and all the features in the world make a luxury vehicle? I think we can agree to disagree here.

[CanuckS2K]

Sorry, my comment was in response to Mitlov's post :..."For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge."

No RWD 375hp V8 in the mainstream but I would see the Taurus (AWD, EcoBoost), Maxima and Buick LaCrosse as alternatives for this market.

But since you brought this up, does RWD, 375hp V8 and all the features in the world make a luxury vehicle? I think we can agree to disagree here.
[/quote]

Yes, I believe it does.  Your definition of a luxury vehicle is clearly different than mine.  For me, I don't simply look at the symbol on the hood, I look at what is offered in terms of features, fit and finish, performance, etc in respect to what is offered by other manufacturers.  While Hyundai is not a luxury car manufacturer in general, the Genesis Sedan IS a luxury Sedan.  The badge on the hood means absolutely nothing to me, but I guess it does to you.  To each their own. 

[Zombie]

The luxury market is very particular, I think you don't want to distance yourself too much from the competition right out of the gate.

Then why didn't Lexus fail miserably?  The brand had zero "image" back then in the luxury context.  They didn't distance themselves from the competition with dramatic and unique styling.  Conservative, derivative and inoffensive best describe the original LS.  That, and high quality with high feature content for a good deal less $$ than the (then) existing luxury competitors seemed to be a winning combination for them.  Sound familiar?

Jaeger

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you agreeing with me or are you making a completely different point? All I was saying is that Hyundai chose to make the Genesis sedan look like its competition because they know that is what people in this segment like. Good quality and high feature helps but does the Lexus even now get the same level of respect as BMW and Mercedes does in the luxury sedan market. Sure people love the Rx line but I find the sedans get somewhat snubbed when compared to the Euros and its been how many years now?
Also when the Lexus arrived the Euro quality wasn't very good, now it is much better from what I hear.

[Winterpeg]

My biggest problem with this car is that it looks way too much like a Mercedes.  If they really want to be taken seriously as a threat or leader, then how about showing some balls and designing something that doesn't borrow from your competition.

Cloning Mercedes with their first entries into the luxury market didn't stop a new brand called "Lexus" from being taken seriously.

And nobody criticizes VW for a lack of "balls" in cloning the Mercedes CLS in their Passat CC.  It is generally lauded as one of their best-looking cars.

So while it might bother you, I'm not sure the derivative styling is necessarily will hurt Hyundai here.  After all, Acura showed lots of "balls" in designing the new TL ......  and.... well ....

Jaeger

There's no doubt about what you said Jaeg..........the Passat CC IS the best looking VW....period.   

[EV Dan]

I wonder why IIRC only Consumer Reports mentions "somewhat unsettled ride". I don't suppose it is as jumpy and clunky as my Sonata, but it could be something that holds the Genesis back from competing side by side with Mercs and Lexuses.
James, do you know what the CR means?

[rrocket]

I wonder why IIRC only Consumer Reports mentions "somewhat unsettled ride". I don't suppose it is as jumpy and clunky as my Sonata, but it could be something that holds the Genesis back from competing side by side with Mercs and Lexuses.
James, do you know what the CR means?

Unsettled might mean it's always bobbing, or porpoising.  Never quite stops moving, however minutely.

[Spec5]

Hold on here - I do believe someone said that the Taurus SHO is a competitor in the luxury/luxury sport category and nobody disagreed with it! Let alone the fact that Ford wants $50k for a Taurus - but nobody has an issue with Hyundai looking for $50k for their luxury/luxury sport sedan!?

[DriverJeff]

Just read Motor Trends long term write up on theirs, and they basically said it bit as a luxury car. Works ok as a competitor to an Accord or Camry, but it is not a game changer like the original LS400 was. They said it was a luxury sedan that people who have never driven a modern luxury sedan would like. They are looking forward to the second generation.

That was one photographer's opinion in the log book.  The other writer in that same update cited that he "really like the Genesis and feel pretty comfortable recommending it to anyone who is looking to save a few bucks on his next luxury sedan." 
He also says "The Tau V-8's power is ample, never feeling overwhelmed by the car's heft. The cabin is really very well trimmed. I wouldn't quite put it on par with those of Mercedes or BMW, but it's a sure rival for Lexus and Acura interiors. The car actually handles pretty well, with less body roll and more willingness to turn than I'd expect. And the rear-seat room is impressive. Lots of positive remarks from those who find themselves on the rear bench."

The bit about comparing it to the Camry or Accord was the photographer's opinion in reference to the suspension tuning only, as I understood it.

Reading some of the previous updates from Motor Trend they said about the car:
" a car that can be called an E-Class for C-Class money."
"Add a few more options like adaptive cruise control and a cockpit-adjustable suspension, and you've got a Europe-beater on your hands."

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_1005_2009_hyundai_genesis_update_5/index.html#ixzz0lEPKIQO2

[saurus]

hmm, I've owned a few luxury salons in my time and I do not like the interior of this car at all from the driver's perspective.  The most obvious problem is the steering wheel -  does not look luxury at all but straight out of a Camry brochure.

that said i have not driven this but will take a test drive to see how it compares with my E coupe

[Dante]

Sorry, my comment was in response to Mitlov's post :..."For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge."

No RWD 375hp V8 in the mainstream but I would see the Taurus (AWD, EcoBoost), Maxima and Buick LaCrosse as alternatives for this market.

But since you brought this up, does RWD, 375hp V8 and all the features in the world make a luxury vehicle? I think we can agree to disagree here.

Yes, I believe it does.  Your definition of a luxury vehicle is clearly different than mine.  For me, I don't simply look at the symbol on the hood, I look at what is offered in terms of features, fit and finish, performance, etc in respect to what is offered by other manufacturers.  While Hyundai is not a luxury car manufacturer in general, the Genesis Sedan IS a luxury Sedan.  The badge on the hood means absolutely nothing to me, but I guess it does to you.  To each their own. 
[/quote]

Was G8 GT/GXP a luxury vehicle? It was RWD, V8, 350/400 hp. IMO it was not although it had many high end features too.
No, the badge it's not everything for a luxury car, but it's a must. The luxury IMO is in the design, execution, materials, technology, attention to details, exclusivity, etc.

The Genesis interior, while it is fine overall, it just doesn't inspire luxury to me. Te exterior is a bit better in this respect.
If I was a true luxury buyer and not a wanabe (money not an issue), I would certainly look elsewhere.

Having, said that, for the first serious shot at luxury, Hyundai did very well except that it should start a luxury brand from scratch just like Toyota, Honda, Nissan did. Trying to convert Hyundai into a premium/luxury brand it's not going to work. Until very recently, Hyundai was a bottom of the barrel manufacturer. It takes more than few years to jump to the luxury. In addition, having a brand to sell both mainstream and (truly) luxury cars it's not going to work IMO.

This is just my opinion of course....

[johngenx]

Hyundai is eating everyone's lunch in a growing number of segments.  Other makers discount them at their peril.  For an early salvo, the Genesis is one hulluva cannon ball.

I prefer the crisp lines of the Lexus IS, don't need the size of the Genesis, but appreciate what a dangerous product it is for the other luxury makers.

[Mitlov]

Was G8 GT/GXP a luxury vehicle? It was RWD, V8, 350/400 hp. IMO it was not although it had many high end features too.
No, the badge it's not everything for a luxury car, but it's a must. The luxury IMO is in the design, execution, materials, technology, attention to details, exclusivity, etc.

The Genesis interior, while it is fine overall, it just doesn't inspire luxury to me. Te exterior is a bit better in this respect.
If I was a true luxury buyer and not a wanabe (money not an issue), I would certainly look elsewhere.

I agree entirely with the quoted section with the exception of "exclusivity."  The 3-Series and E-Class are common as all hell, but they're still luxury cars.  An EVO GSR is very exclusive, but not remotely luxurious.  Anyway, I agree that horsepower doesn't determine luxury, nor do gadgets (a new Fiesta might have more gadgets than a ten-year-old Rolls, but it's not more luxurious).  However, using that test, I really do believe the Genesis is a proper luxury car.  I thought the Genesis interior was a step ahead of the Lexus RX and Acura RDX, on par with the BMW X5 and previous-generation 5-Series, and only a half-step behind the S-Class.  If it seems like a motley collection of vehicles to compare the Genesis sedan to, I'm just going off of first-hand experience.

Having, said that, for the first serious shot at luxury, Hyundai did very well except that it should start a luxury brand from scratch just like Toyota, Honda, Nissan did.

I agree that having a unique brand would help Genesis sales.  But the lack of a unique brand doesn't change the fact that it's a luxury car.

[sailor723]

There's also the issue of the quality of the dealership network,sales staff and the whole sales/service experience. Many people's expectations are going to be higher in these areas if they are a "luxury" car shopper rather than an Accent or Elantra buyer. If Hyundai seriously wants to compete for customers with Lexus,MB etc I really think they need to build out a separate dealer network (or at least split showrooms and dedicated service reception areas)

[CanuckS2K]

Sorry, my comment was in response to Mitlov's post :..."For him, buying a luxury car was about the quiet, comfortable ride and the great interior, not the badge."

No RWD 375hp V8 in the mainstream but I would see the Taurus (AWD, EcoBoost), Maxima and Buick LaCrosse as alternatives for this market.

But since you brought this up, does RWD, 375hp V8 and all the features in the world make a luxury vehicle? I think we can agree to disagree here.

Yes, I believe it does.  Your definition of a luxury vehicle is clearly different than mine.  For me, I don't simply look at the symbol on the hood, I look at what is offered in terms of features, fit and finish, performance, etc in respect to what is offered by other manufacturers.  While Hyundai is not a luxury car manufacturer in general, the Genesis Sedan IS a luxury Sedan.  The badge on the hood means absolutely nothing to me, but I guess it does to you.  To each their own. 

Was G8 GT/GXP a luxury vehicle? It was RWD, V8, 350/400 hp. IMO it was not although it had many high end features too.
No, the badge it's not everything for a luxury car, but it's a must. The luxury IMO is in the design, execution, materials, technology, attention to details, exclusivity, etc.

The Genesis interior, while it is fine overall, it just doesn't inspire luxury to me. Te exterior is a bit better in this respect.
If I was a true luxury buyer and not a wanabe (money not an issue), I would certainly look elsewhere.

Having, said that, for the first serious shot at luxury, Hyundai did very well except that it should start a luxury brand from scratch just like Toyota, Honda, Nissan did. Trying to convert Hyundai into a premium/luxury brand it's not going to work. Until very recently, Hyundai was a bottom of the barrel manufacturer. It takes more than few years to jump to the luxury. In addition, having a brand to sell both mainstream and (truly) luxury cars it's not going to work IMO.

This is just my opinion of course....

[/quote]

Of course the G8 is not a luxury vehicle.  But then again, where did I say that ANY car with a V8 is considered to be luxury?  The only reason I brought up the V8 in the first place is because you claim that MANY mainstream vehicles offer all of what the Genesis does.  A 375HP V8 is typically not found in mainstream vehicles.  That was my point.  But while we are talking about V8s, the vast majority of luxury car manufacturers offer one.  MB, Infiniti, Lexus, Audi, and BMW all do.  I think it's great that Hyundai gave that option in the Genesis. 

The Genesis interior may not inspire luxury to you, but I still consider it to be a luxury interior.  BMW interiors I find are some of the most uninspiring interiors out there, but I would still consider them to be luxury.  You also mentioned that if you were a true luxury buyer where money was no object that you would look elsewhere.  Well of course, who wouldn't.  I think everyone would take a Bentley or a Maybach over the Genesis.  But in today's economy, money is certainly a factor and plays a factor for the majority of us when purchasing a vehicle.  The Genesis simply offers a lot of bang for your buck compared to the competition, in the same way the Infiniti G did (and still does) when it came out.

[John MacDonald]

The vast majority agree that this car is a luxury vehicle but hyundai badge is not a luxury brand.  That solves all this banter.  This is the first generation and the next will be better based on what hyundai has done with it's recent vehicle upgrades.  They decided to keep this under the hyundai badge and not a separate brand because it saves money and if it doesn't work they won't have a failed luxury brand. 

Now here's an idea for the next generation.  How about a performance version of this vehicle, and I'm not talking about just new suspension and brakes.  I'm talking about turbo/super charging that V8 and make 500 HP.  Call it a M5 killer and make it under $60,000.  Now that would be a car to brag about.  Seems like something that would get a lot of publicity but probably would only sell 1000 units world wide so I doubt they would ever consider making it.  But man would that vehicle ever be good.