Topic: The latest Consumer Reports reliability ratings--some thoughts

[Rupert]

Making the assumption that all parts are fitted correctly; how can a problem with items or assemblies that are made by seperate entities and supplied to all auto companies, be charged against any brand auto. An instance is prop/drive shafts and couplings. Should problems with these items not be charged to the companies that make them. I think efforts should be made to separate fault finding with such items and take them out of the mix. They have no bearing on the manufacturing and quality dedication of a car plant.

[Dante]

Just out of curiosity, what it the current rating for the 2007 Outlander and what are the weak points according to CR?

[DockMan]

Making the assumption that all parts are fitted correctly; how can a problem with items or assemblies that are made by seperate entities and supplied to all auto companies, be charged against any brand auto. An instance is prop/drive shafts and couplings. Should problems with these items not be charged to the companies that make them. I think efforts should be made to separate fault finding with such items and take them out of the mix. They have no bearing on the manufacturing and quality dedication of a car plant.

I think you are just wrong here. Each automotive company has standards and tolerances to which componentry and assemblies must be produced by suppliers. The ability of the manufacturer (or assembler if you will) to ensure that all these components and assemblies fit and operate together to specification is the very definition of Quality Control.

[Nathan@1010tires]

I wonder how long it will take for people to realize that some European cars are no longer reliability nightmares.

I bought a Rabbit/Golf new in Feb '07. It has 65k on it now and although it has never left me stranded, the thing is a rattlebox to the infinite degree. It also spent 5 weeks in the shop for electrical issues. I may buy another when this lease is over, but it would definately be for a shorter lease (36 months instead of 48).

[PJungnitsch]

and the Challenger V8 getting top ratings (the Challenger V8 actually has the highest owner satisfaction of any car of any genre).

That's interesting. I've been noticing that the Challenger almost always loses comparison tests vs Mustang and Camaro, but testers, especially long-term testers, just love the car.

[Erik]

Do they actually tell you what the ratings mean yet?

For example, if one car has 2 faults per thousand, and another has 3, you could say that the second car is 50 % less reliable then the first, yet the difference is basically meaningless.

[Bullet Blue]

If you want reliable and European, go "entry-level" and naturally-aspirated.

So far, I can atest to this. The 128i and C30 2.4i have both been excellent, no problems to report so far (knock on wood).

[ArticSteve]

I wonder how long it will take for people to realize that some European cars are no longer reliability nightmares.

I bought a Rabbit/Golf new in Feb '07. It has 65k on it now and although it has never left me stranded, the thing is a rattlebox to the infinite degree. It also spent 5 weeks in the shop for electrical issues. I may buy another when this lease is over, but it would definately be for a shorter lease (36 months instead of 48).

My son's 2007 Rabbit, well documented on this site, was so bad VW Canada bought it back on the condition he buy a 2008 which he did and then sold it.  Traded it towards an FJ Cruiser which later caught fire. 

[Mitlov]

I bought a Rabbit/Golf new in Feb '07. It has 65k on it now and although it has never left me stranded, the thing is a rattlebox to the infinite degree. It also spent 5 weeks in the shop for electrical issues. I may buy another when this lease is over, but it would definately be for a shorter lease (36 months instead of 48).

My son's 2007 Rabbit, well documented on this site, was so bad VW Canada bought it back on the condition he buy a 2008 which he did and then sold it.  Traded it towards an FJ Cruiser which later caught fire. 

Two separate cars, new, from two separate manufacturers, both rated "far better than average" reliability-wise, in three years, and both of them are now dead?  Are you SURE it's the cars themselves that are the problem? 

Nathan, rattles in the MkV Golf are far from unheard of.  But Consumer Reports' rating scheme gives rattles (aka "body integrity") very little weight when ranking reliability.  Another car company which really does well as a consequence is Subaru...the mechanicals tend to be solid, but in my experience and from talking with other people, very frequently they're rattle-traps after five years.

[Mitlov]

Just out of curiosity, what it the current rating for the 2007 Outlander and what are the weak points according to CR?

Overall rating of better than average (4 out of 5).  Paint/trim was below average, and body integrity (rattles) was average.  Every other component is above average or far above average.

[Dante]

Just out of curiosity, what it the current rating for the 2007 Outlander and what are the weak points according to CR?

Overall rating of better than average (4 out of 5).  Paint/trim was below average, and body integrity (rattles) was average.  Every other component is above average or far above average.

Thanks. It sounds about right. Is it still "Recommended"?

[Mitlov]

Just out of curiosity, what it the current rating for the 2007 Outlander and what are the weak points according to CR?

Overall rating of better than average (4 out of 5).  Paint/trim was below average, and body integrity (rattles) was average.  Every other component is above average or far above average.

Thanks. It sounds about right. Is it still "Recommended"?

Yes.  The two components to being "recommended" are reliability of 3 out of 5 or better, and a road test score of 4 out of 5 or better.  The Outlander gets 4 out of 5 for reliability and is at the upper end of 4 out of 5 for road test.

[mp3butt]

My friend just picked up a Tribeca with the $6500 cash rebate  I forgot to tell him it's actually the "second least reliable" Subie...

With the same engine as the one in the 2010 model (CCTA), I hope my GTI would be as reliable as the Rabbit...

Anway, I find the "Best values" session very interesting (p. 19-21).  Golf as the best value: it teachs us a big lesson. Don't just look at the face value of anything, including cars.

[Jaeger]

I wonder how long it will take for people to realize that some European cars are no longer reliability nightmares.

Sadly, I'm guessing another decade.  People seem slow to catch on to these things.

Don't believe me?  Look at the comments thread of any CD review of ANY German car.  By page three, it's inevitably turned into a "I drive an Infiniti/Toyota/whatever instead because in 1992 I had a Volkswagen that was awful, and I have a co-worker with a [insert random German car here that's unrelated to the one being tested] that's just awful."

While there certainly ARE some reliability disasters coming out of Germany, this shows that you just can't paint with that broad of a brush.

You seriously don't understand why reliability concerns crop up so often with your beloved VW?  The answer is that, notwithstading improvements of late, there are still plenty of utterly craptastic VeeDubs out there in the hands of increasingly frustrated owners.  These reliability "concerns" aren't "ancient history" for these people - it's their present nightmare.  So when they post of their awful ownership experiences, it's little comfort that certain specific VW models of today aren't as much of a  sh!tbox as the cars they are still sufferig with and making payments on today.  And while it may suit the German car fanboys to contemptuously dismiss their concerns as occuring in the past tense, I suspect that brings them little comfort, either.

You've made a point of telling us how well the normally aspirated German cars do.  How do the turbos fare?

Jaeger

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but....

[Dante]

Just out of curiosity, what it the current rating for the 2007 Outlander and what are the weak points according to CR?

Overall rating of better than average (4 out of 5).  Paint/trim was below average, and body integrity (rattles) was average.  Every other component is above average or far above average.

Thanks. It sounds about right. Is it still "Recommended"?

Yes.  The two components to being "recommended" are reliability of 3 out of 5 or better, and a road test score of 4 out of 5 or better.  The Outlander gets 4 out of 5 for reliability and is at the upper end of 4 out of 5 for road test.

Thanks again. How does the 2007 RAV4 V6, CRV and 2009 Forester compare?
Do they give the ratings for each year or one rating per vehicle? If so, how is 2009 Outlander rated for paint/trim? Mitsu made some design changes in 2009 to address the paint chipping issue from 2007-2008 models. I wonder if this is reflected in the ratings.

[vdk]

I wonder how long it will take for people to realize that some European cars are no longer reliability nightmares.

Sadly, I'm guessing another decade.  People seem slow to catch on to these things.

Don't believe me?  Look at the comments thread of any CD review of ANY German car.  By page three, it's inevitably turned into a "I drive an Infiniti/Toyota/whatever instead because in 1992 I had a Volkswagen that was awful, and I have a co-worker with a [insert random German car here that's unrelated to the one being tested] that's just awful."

While there certainly ARE some reliability disasters coming out of Germany, this shows that you just can't paint with that broad of a brush.

You seriously don't understand why reliability concerns crop up so often with your beloved VW?  The answer is that, notwithstading improvements of late, there are still plenty of utterly craptastic VeeDubs out there in the hands of increasingly frustrated owners.  These reliability "concerns" aren't "ancient history" for these people - it's their present nightmare.  So when they post of their awful ownership experiences, it's little comfort that certain specific VW models of today aren't as much of a  sh!tbox as the cars they are still sufferig with and making payments on today.  And while it may suit the German car fanboys to contemptuously dismiss their concerns as occuring in the past tense, I suspect that brings them little comfort, either.

You've made a point of telling us how well the normally aspirated German cars do.  How do the turbos fare?

Jaeger

Now that you've seen how the turbos fare. What's next?

[vdk]

I wonder how long it will take for people to realize that some European cars are no longer reliability nightmares.

I bought a Rabbit/Golf new in Feb '07. It has 65k on it now and although it has never left me stranded, the thing is a rattlebox to the infinite degree. It also spent 5 weeks in the shop for electrical issues. I may buy another when this lease is over, but it would definately be for a shorter lease (36 months instead of 48).

My son's 2007 Rabbit, well documented on this site, was so bad VW Canada bought it back on the condition he buy a 2008 which he did and then sold it.  Traded it towards an FJ Cruiser which later caught fire. 

Mine spent one day in the shop when I was on vacation in NS. Bought March 14th 2008, currently sitting at 59k. Rattles? There's one coming from the dash that I need to get fixed.

I'm curious, is yours lowered Nathan?

[Jaeger]

An apt metaphor for all too many VW owners and their cars. 

Jaeger

[vdk]

Now you gotta come up with something better than that dude.