Author Topic: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata  (Read 63825 times)

Offline chrischasescars

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #120 on: March 04, 2010, 03:45:41 pm »

I've stated the facts, and if you don't like them, that's your problem.

Your "problem" - well, at least one of them - is an acute inability to distinguish fact from your own narrow personal opinion.  No doubt this is reflected in your choice of a forum handle.

Your contributions to this forum thus far are as pedantic as they are pointless.  Welcome to the ignore list.  :)

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Offline Rupert

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #121 on: March 04, 2010, 04:02:40 pm »
I hope that they are not going to differentiate between content levels with exterior trim appearance. They have not in the past and I think not doing this is smart. US manufacturers could learn from this. If your budget does not run to leather or power whatever; the appearance should not be the less.

Offline sacrat

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #122 on: March 05, 2010, 03:02:37 am »
I hope that they are not going to differentiate between content levels with exterior trim appearance. They have not in the past and I think not doing this is smart. US manufacturers could learn from this. If your budget does not run to leather or power whatever; the appearance should not be the less.

Hi Rupert. There will be some minor differentiation in the following areas:

1.GL 16" steel wheels: GLS 16" alloys; Limited 17" alloys; Turbo 18" alloys
2.Dual exhaust on SE and Turbo optioned models in US and on Turbo in Canada I believe.
3. Turn signal repeaters on mirrors on Limited

This becomes a little confusing as the SE model in the US has 18' wheels and dual exhaust with or without the upcoming Turbo motor. The Turbo motor will be offered as an option, not a model in the US.

In Canada the Turbo will be offered as a separate model (probably "Sport") and will get the same upgrades as the SE.

And I thought quantum mechanics was complicated  :(
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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #123 on: March 05, 2010, 05:43:07 am »
Hi Rupert. There will be some minor differentiation in the following areas:

1.GL 16" steel wheels: GLS 16" alloys; Limited 17" alloys; Turbo 18" alloys
2.Dual exhaust on SE and Turbo optioned models in US and on Turbo in Canada I believe.
3. Turn signal repeaters on mirrors on Limited

This becomes a little confusing as the SE model in the US has 18' wheels and dual exhaust with or without the upcoming Turbo motor. The Turbo motor will be offered as an option, not a model in the US.

In Canada the Turbo will be offered as a separate model (probably "Sport") and will get the same upgrades as the SE.

And I thought quantum mechanics was complicated  :(
[/quote]

This is very insightful. Thank you.
Wow, the Turbo GDi looks to be the model to get.  Some seriously impressive stuff out Hyundai these days.. Hearing DI engines are more coarse sounding (not unlike a diesel?).  Would be nice if they upped the sound insulation materials to improve sound levels from w/in the car.  Still, I am seriously considering buying one of these - an incredible value proposition and the best looking in the segment.  It's not even close..

Offline Wheelboy

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #124 on: March 05, 2010, 07:14:13 am »
Have we yet heard what the HP of the turbo version will be?
When will the car be released?
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Offline Rupert

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #125 on: March 05, 2010, 07:51:57 am »
I can live with smaller dia wheels and more tire (cushioning) as long as the tire width is adequate. I presume that the outside dia of the tire is the same. The bigger dia wheels that are used means less room inside. You can't have your cake and eat it. Lighter wheels improve handling by reducing the unsprung weight all things being equal.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 08:00:52 am by Rupert »

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #126 on: March 05, 2010, 08:35:12 am »
As usual the biggest issue for Hyundai is going to brand perception.I for one love the styling and it would probably the first car I recommend to someone shopping in this category.

I hope the perception problem stays around long enough that when I replace my 09 with a 2013 the value/quality equation is still strong  :D.

Absolutely, that is the biggest concern I have going forward with Kia/Hyundai... at some point, they won't be as good value as they are now. When that happens, I'll have to decide if I'm willing to pay more and stay with them, or search elsewhere for a great bargain. Hopefully, they'll remain agressive with their prices/incentives for the next 3-4 years so that I have time to buy another vehicle or two from them at great bargains!

I did the same thing when we were shopping for our next vehicle.  I compared CUV's (but not the honda as it's only a 4 cylinder) and the hyundai offered the best package, especially after the upgrade to the engine, transmission, and fuel economy. 

If Hyundai is gaining massive market ground with their current formula (which they are) I don't think they will budge on the value equation. They may stretch their reaches into a broader, more upstream market, but if you notice the Genesis V8 is still a great 'value', given the $70K competition from Mercedes and BMW. The brand equity of big names like Toyota are crumbling from simple mistakes - all Hyundai needs to do is make their cars reliable and keep pouring on the style and value, and they are going to move leaps and bounds ahead. When we were shopping for a CUV I had a look at the CR-V, and it was a perfectly nice vehicle, but after driving the Santa Fe there was really just no comparison. Hyundai has the right formula, and I think they will keep it.

Me and my wife did the same thing when we were shopping for our new vehicle.  The Santa Fe offered the best package, might not be the best in any one category but a very well balanced vehicle, then you add in the price and it was a winner.  I think the new engine and transmission really makes it the clear winner in this category, that is until the refreshed Ford Edge comes out.  I hear that vehicle will get upgrades to it's engines also from 265 Hp to 280 and there will be a sport edition with 300 HP. 

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #127 on: March 05, 2010, 08:39:50 am »
Have we yet heard what the HP of the turbo version will be?
When will the car be released?
I hear it will come out in the fall and have HP rating in the 250-270 range, torque will probably be about the same as HP, maybe a bit more.  So this vehicle will be able to keep up with any V6 midsize cars out there.

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #128 on: March 05, 2010, 08:50:03 am »
Have we yet heard what the HP of the turbo version will be?
When will the car be released?
I hear it will come out in the fall and have HP rating in the 250-270 range, torque will probably be about the same as HP, maybe a bit more.  So this vehicle will be able to keep up with any V6 midsize cars out there.

Whoah!  That sounds like a winner.  I'm sure Hyundai has a very good reason (fuel mileage?) for going turbo 4 versus the V6 of most of the others.  That 260hp turbo just will probably be more rev oriented than my relaxed TL-S with the same HP.  But, the turbo Sonata will be worth a look.

The Sonata 4cyl has a timing chain too.  I asked the local service manager why they went from a rubber belt - his answer was that they wanted to remove the belt-replacement service interval and its related cost.

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #129 on: March 05, 2010, 09:30:53 am »
Two things:

1) I have previously stated that I think it looks great. But some posters suggest it might be over-styled. I have to agree that might be the case. I will have to see it in person.

2) I see all over Internet beautiful pictures of the interior showing 2 tone dash. I have seen same from other manufacturers only to find that Canadian versions do not offer this. I hope Sonata does not disappoint like the Elantra Touring did. I saw interior of one while in Italy and it looked great. The pictures on Internet looked great as well. I was convinced I was going to buy this car. When I finally saw the car in showroom I found the center stack in Cdn version to look like crap. Ended up with Mazda 3 Sport.
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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #130 on: March 05, 2010, 09:36:25 am »
Two things:

1) I have previously stated that I think it looks great. But some posters suggest it might be over-styled. I have to agree that might be the case. I will have to see it in person.

2) I see all over Internet beautiful pictures of the interior showing 2 tone dash. I have seen same from other manufacturers only to find that Canadian versions do not offer this. I hope Sonata does not disappoint like the Elantra Touring did. I saw interior of one while in Italy and it looked great. The pictures on Internet looked great as well. I was convinced I was going to buy this car. When I finally saw the car in showroom I found the center stack in Cdn version to look like crap. Ended up with Mazda 3 Sport.

Wow, I guess room didn't factor into your choice.  The Mazda 3 is tiny in the back and the front is a bit cramped too.  I'll say the Mazda will have a better resale value, better styling (interior and ext), and more spirited drive but if I was looking to use it for my family I would have gone with the Elantra Touring.  The back seat is roomier than the Santa Fe.

Offline Wheelboy

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #131 on: March 05, 2010, 10:15:41 am »
Two things:

1) I have previously stated that I think it looks great. But some posters suggest it might be over-styled. I have to agree that might be the case. I will have to see it in person.

I've seen it (and driven it) in person and while I kinda like it, it is a bit over styled.  Here is one of the first pics I ever saw of it (and artist's rendition) and it's a frikkin beaut.  It's wet-dream material.  The 2nd pic is the actual car.  The front is much more bulbous - kinda like that Honda Cross-thingamajig.

Quote
2) I see all over Internet beautiful pictures of the interior showing 2 tone dash. I have seen same from other manufacturers only to find that Canadian versions do not offer this.

I found pics of a 2-tone interior but I fear too that this will get erased, like lots of things that get erased on Canadian spec cars.  Why do we always get the shitty end of the stick?  USA cars (and Euros), from many makes, come with many more things as standard.  Let's not get started about delivery costs that are 2x what they pay in the USA.  I guess while we keep accepting this and buying cars then they'll keep stickin' it to us.

Offline sacrat

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #132 on: March 05, 2010, 10:37:11 am »
Two things:

1) I have previously stated that I think it looks great. But some posters suggest it might be over-styled. I have to agree that might be the case. I will have to see it in person.

2) I see all over Internet beautiful pictures of the interior showing 2 tone dash. I have seen same from other manufacturers only to find that Canadian versions do not offer this. I hope Sonata does not disappoint like the Elantra Touring did. I saw interior of one while in Italy and it looked great. The pictures on Internet looked great as well. I was convinced I was going to buy this car. When I finally saw the car in showroom I found the center stack in Cdn version to look like crap. Ended up with Mazda 3 Sport.

Here is a link with several great pictures including the two tone dash.Looks Malibu-ish (In a good way) I saw a Limited at my local dealer yesterday and the dash was all Black. I'm afraid you'll probably be right on this one.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/2011-hyundai-sonata-review/




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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #133 on: March 05, 2010, 11:06:35 am »
I saw a Limited at my local dealer yesterday and the dash was all Black.


But what was the exterior color?  Just the red and Indigo blue comes with the beige interior.  I wonder if it's the 2-tone interior?  Could we be that lucky up here?

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #134 on: March 05, 2010, 11:29:10 am »
I saw a Limited at my local dealer yesterday and the dash was all Black.


But what was the exterior color?  Just the red and Indigo blue comes with the beige interior.  I wonder if it's the 2-tone interior?  Could we be that lucky up here?

The car was White. I'm not a fan of White in general and on the Sonata the chrome strip from headlights to C-pillar kinda washes out.I'm trying to figure out how to post images here to show what a REAL chrome strip looks like. If anyone searches images of the 1966 Chrysler New Yorker they'll see this is one area where Chrysler "owns" Hyundai

Offline DriverJeff

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #135 on: March 05, 2010, 12:22:07 pm »
When we were shopping for a CUV I had a look at the CR-V, and it was a perfectly nice vehicle, but after driving the Santa Fe there was really just no comparison. Hyundai has the right formula, and I think they will keep it.

Glad you like the Santa Fe -- it's definitely on a short list to replace my wife's Mazda3 next year... but in fairness, the CR-V is designed to compete against the Tucson, not Santa Fe, so it's not surprising that the Santa Fe would come out on top.  ( I do realize the pricing of the SF and CRV are comparable).
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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #136 on: March 05, 2010, 12:59:34 pm »

I don't think you can conclusively say that just based on a commercial. When the current 7th-gen Camry debuted, sure it was flashy for a Camry, but it was certainly not controversial. If it was controversial, as I stated with the Taurus, brand loyalty and the reputation of the Camry would have dropped, leading to decreased sales. While the current 7th gen Camry was flashier than the previous 6th gen, it also has some family similarities to the 5th gen Camry. While it was flashy when it first came out, it still looked like a Camry.

This new 6th generation Sonata on the other hand looks NOTHING like the previous 5th gen model. There is zero similarity in the exterior. Likewise, this 6th gen Sonata does not look like any previous generation of Sonata either; there are zero family cues to previous Sonata generations.

...
I've stated the facts, and if you don't like them, that's your problem.


If the new 6th generation Sonata does better sales-wise than the previous 5th generation, I will eat my words. If not, well then many "enthusiasts", as well as bloggers and journalists will be served a lot of crow.
 

Wow, there is just so much short-sightedness in "Factual's" response it's tough to know where to begin.

1)  As stated already, you (Factual) simply stating something is a 'fact' doesn't necessarily  make it so.  If you'd like to offer up some sources for your "facts", that might help your cause.

2)  You've cited the '96 Taurus as an example of how a mid-size sedan with styling that's a vast departure from the previous model will definitely fail, but...
     a)  The '96 Taurus retained the title of Best Selling Car in the US.
     b)  What other factors might have contributed to the eventual downfall of the Taurus's sales?  Just off the top of my head:  Greater competition from competitive products such as the Camry, Accord, Intrepid, etc. that wasn't affecting the previous generation Taurus perhaps?
     c)  Reaction from the general public and journalists was very mixed with many folks not liking it, whereas for the 2011 Sonata, it is generally very positive.  A wildly different design that is appealing to most people should not net the same sales reaction as a wildly different design that is controversial  (note:  this isn't "fact" -- this is common sense).

3)  You negated your own point that a new mid-size sedan that's a vast departure in styling from the previous model is destined to fail.  The out-going generation of Sonata looks nothing like the previous model (which you yourself stated above).  However, the outgoing model is the best selling Sonata to date, is it not? 

4)  You stated that it is a 'fact' that 'brand loyalty' and the 'reputation of the Camry' would have 'dropped' if the styling had been more controversial than it is.  This is not a fact.  This is your opinion.  MY opinion (as someone who has worked in marketing for a long time and has a pretty good sense of consumer perception and the auto industry as a whole) is that neither styling nor performance are the highest priorities of the vast majority of Camry buyers. People who put more emphasis on those two elements likely look to more fashionable choices (such as a Mazda6 or VW Passat).  Rather, choosing a sedan that provides good fuel economy, reliability, safety and comfort are what lead the vast majority of Camry owners to choose the car they do.  Sure, styling will play a small role, but not be the end-all, be-all for most.  Again, I don't know this to be fact, just the opinion and educated guess of me. 

5)  Add me to the camp of others here (and journalists you've referenced) that are betting on the new Sonata being a sales winner for Hyundai. 

Offline jww

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #137 on: March 05, 2010, 01:02:27 pm »
I am a fan as well.

Great lines, fabulous trim levels, and improved interior on the previous generation - which was very good to begin with.
JWW

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #138 on: March 05, 2010, 02:30:42 pm »
..i likes this Factual fella...c'mon ov'r and have a beer summit...and i'll see if i can rustle up some food from a real CHINESE take-out the WESTERN WORLD U BASTAR.....oops so sorry..the HEAT is gettin' ta me...............I personally drive a CUBE'an VAN............some say it's a 57 Chevy....!!!!!!!
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Re: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata
« Reply #139 on: March 05, 2010, 02:42:45 pm »
Have we yet heard what the HP of the turbo version will be?
When will the car be released?
I hear it will come out in the fall and have HP rating in the 250-270 range, torque will probably be about the same as HP, maybe a bit more.  So this vehicle will be able to keep up with any V6 midsize cars out there.

Now take that and put into the Genesis Coupe; it probably is the same 2.0L engine + GDI  :skid:
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