Topic: First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata

[safristi]

..c'mon JAEG_U_R.......PONY up fer a real KAR..................it'll make yer "Y" types bulge...... ..Chix say NIX fer "4" INCH Bangers.................unless they're breakfast sausages...Salam _i _Ferrari........

[Wheelboy]

I was on my way back from Home Depot and I spotted the new 2011 Sonata on the Hyundai lot.  In I went.  They just have two of the base (steel wheels) versions but they were quite impressive lemme tell ya.  The seat are nice, with good wrap-around.  The speedo and tach down inside those tubes are not as bad as I feared.  The car looks nice even though I think the new styling is a bit over the top.  Maybe they tried too hard.

Then we went for a drive.  I'm coming from a 260hp V6 Acura and I'm with Jaeger on this - the lack of horses and especially torque was quite noticeable to me.  Where my car loafs up to highway speeds, the Sonata 4 is a lot more "thrashy".  But I expected that.  I'll say the power was adequate and something I'm willing to accept this time around.  I won't be buying another premium fuel V6.

The car cruised nicely at 130kph @ 2500rpm.  It was quiet once the 4 cyl had gotten us up to speed and we were in 6th.

That GL model at $22,649 is going to be a big seller.  Their GLS will be in next week and I'll be going back for a look.  

[John MacDonald]

I disagree.  The 2.0T engine that I had (put the CC in sport mode auto) and it did the 30-90 merging test better than the Mazda 6 GT V6 that has over a 70HP difference.  If you timed it the Mazda might be a tick quicker but there is a hesitation in the engine where the CC had no hesitation, it was instant performance.  I haven't test drove the Altima but I have done the Maxima and it has basically the same engine just retuned for 290 HP and even though it is faster I would pick the CC as it was truly surprising just how well that engine uses it's 200HP.  I'm positive if you took it out back to back with Sonata with 200Hp, Acura TSX with 200 HP, and even the Honda Civic SI with 200 HP the CC would feel the quickest of the bunch.

Well, yeah - if you compare the BLOWN 4 in the Passat to the NORMALLY ASPIRATED 4-pot alternatives, it will feel the quickest.  It has more torque and down low.  You notice that.  Just as you WILL notice the extra 70 or more ponies in the Nissan V6 alternatives.  And I'm still at a loss as to what makes this motor "fantastic!".  I mean, it does what it should and does it well, but nothing about the drive made me want to exhaust my supply of exclamation points.  It's a solid mill, but it doesn't make me want to do cartwheels.  I suspect my ultimate impression of the Sonata will be the same, but will reserve judgment until I have had some seat time.

I haven't driven the Mazda - they clearly took a BIG step off the zoom-zoom path with that car - but the power difference between my VQ Altima and the CC was QUITE evident. 

Jaeger

Okay, well then how about this.  Try back to back the CC and the Hyundai Genesis Coupe with 2.0T.  I've driven both and the Hyundai has the same displacement with more ponies and torque.  But the CC will out perform it.  The 2.0T engine in the CC can be modified to make a lot more power and torque in other Audi products.  It has won numerous engine of the year awards over the past 5 years.  But if you just want a fast car with loads of torque and a stick you can't go wrong with a Subaru WRX.  Now that is a car you should take out, if you don't need loads of passanger space in the rear (I did find it had adequate space for small adults or kids and if you're not adverse to hatch backs then it has good space for stuff too).  That car is just as quick to 60mph as a Mustang GT (4.9 seconds).

[IronMarc]

Gord Boy wrote:
"There are many who are currently driving the near-luxury
cars who will be impressed.  Unfortunately Hyundai is not attuned to this demand and continue to refuse "SE" into Cdn. Mkt.   We are not interested in turbos
but in style and driving substance.  This means taking corners flatter than your av. fam. sedan.  It means apreciating 18 inch tires
on the design.  Hyundai will lose a lot of us until they smarten up.
Hyundai, please get to know your potential niche with this new design.  These mistakes are costly in word-of-mouth
for what you are trying to accomplish.  Bad Decision."

With tire prices going up exponentially in function of rim size, I personnally would trade larger wheel wells for more room on the back seat and trunk.  I drive a Murano at the moment and that's the only real beef I have against it.  I think Hyundai has to decide which crowd they wish to please.  Those who like big rims for whatever reason vs those who are looking for a practical sedan that can be driven economically 12 months a year in the rest of Canada.

[safristi]

..geez...just a THOUGHT..maybe this is why we should be glad...appreciative...of the choices we have.................NO it woz just a fleeting tho't..........i'm SURE....ONE OF U LOT IS RIGHT....................

[John MacDonald]

Gord Boy wrote:
"There are many who are currently driving the near-luxury
cars who will be impressed.  Unfortunately Hyundai is not attuned to this demand and continue to refuse "SE" into Cdn. Mkt.   We are not interested in turbos
but in style and driving substance.  This means taking corners flatter than your av. fam. sedan.  It means apreciating 18 inch tires
on the design.  Hyundai will lose a lot of us until they smarten up.
Hyundai, please get to know your potential niche with this new design.  These mistakes are costly in word-of-mouth
for what you are trying to accomplish.  Bad Decision."

With tire prices going up exponentially in function of rim size, I personnally would trade larger wheel wells for more room on the back seat and trunk.  I drive a Murano at the moment and that's the only real beef I have against it.  I think Hyundai has to decide which crowd they wish to please.  Those who like big rims for whatever reason vs those who are looking for a practical sedan that can be driven economically 12 months a year in the rest of Canada.

Very true about the rim size.  I know that when we looked at different vehicles the biggest rim that we would consider is 18 inch because after that the tire prices is crazy.  We actually crossed off the Toyota Venza (even though it was a great vehicle) because the price to purchase new tires when they eventually wear out was crazy.  The sales person said (V6 with 20 inch rims) that the tires for the V6 would cost around $300-$400 per tire!!!  It was easy to cross it off the list after that.

[sacrat]

Earlier I said:
"I believe that any sales Hyundai loses to conservative family buyers, they will pick up in non-family buyers who would have never considered one before. I have a friend (single guy) with a 2005 G35 who is seriously looking at this car. To use Hyundai's term, they want their vehicles to become "aspirational" not just good value."

I was on my way back from Home Depot and I spotted the new 2011 Sonata on the Hyundai lot.  In I went.  
Then we went for a drive.  I'm coming from a 260hp V6 Acura and I'm with Jaeger on this - the lack of horses and especially torque was quite noticeable to me.  Where my car loafs up to highway speeds, the Sonata 4 is a lot more "thrashy".  But I expected that.  I'll say the power was adequate and something I'm willing to accept this time around.  I won't be buying another premium fuel V6.

 Their GLS will be in next week and I'll be going back for a look.  

This is what I mean about an expanded market with the new look. I'm pretty sure Wheelboy wouldn't have taken a second look at the previous model.

[Wheelboy]

This is what I mean about an expanded market with the new look. I'm pretty sure Wheelboy wouldn't have taken a second look at the previous model.

Last year I test drove both the 4cyl & V6 Sonatas and while they were ok, they were just that - ok.  They did nothing to light my fire.  It was the same with the 4 & 6cyl Accords.

The 2011 Sonata, for the asking price, does light my fire.

The Infinity G37 was a luxo-rocketship and the Lexus IS-250 was a fine car but I don't want premium fuel again.  That being said I want to test a VW CC.  Yes everything is a compromise and nothing's off the table until the check is signed.

[John MacDonald]

This is what I mean about an expanded market with the new look. I'm pretty sure Wheelboy wouldn't have taken a second look at the previous model.

Last year I test drove both the 4cyl & V6 Sonatas and while they were ok, they were just that - ok.  They did nothing to light my fire.  It was the same with the 4 & 6cyl Accords.

The 2011 Sonata, for the asking price, does light my fire.

The Infinity G37 was a luxo-rocketship and the Lexus IS-250 was a fine car but I don't want premium fuel again.  That being said I want to test a VW CC.  Yes everything is a compromise and nothing's off the table until the check is signed.

Another vehicle you need to try is the Subaru Legacy.  If you can afford the $38,000 price of the GT it's a real good vehicle with standard trany.  Also the V6 is very good at $32,000 and good performance.  Oh and you won't feel worried about reliability.

[Bubba]

Hyundai Canada responded!

------------------

Thanks for the quick response.  Eight colours is better, but I'd still like all ten! 

----- Original Message -----
From: Customer Service <CustomerRelations@HyundaiCanada.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 13:10
Subject: RE: 2011 Sonata
To: Clyde Winklovic

> Good day Clyde,
> 
> Thank you for your email. Please note that the 2011 Sonata will
> be offered in 8 colours. The colours have been updated on our
> website for your perusal.
> 
> Regards,
> Hyundai Auto Canada Corp.
> MQ/11003
> ________________________________
>
> From: Clyde Winklovic
> Sent: Wed 3/3/2010 11:55 AM
> To: Customer Service
> Subject: 2011 Sonata
 
> Hyundai's Canadian website is showing 5 colours available for
> the 2011 Sonata.  Hyundai's US site is showing 10 colours
> available.  I hope that's a mistake.
>
> Why are so few colours available in Canada?  The Sonatas
> being sold in Canada and the US come down the same assembly
> line, don't they?
>
> I had the 2011 Sonata on my short list to replace my 2002
> Sebring, but with the lack of choice in the colour area, it's
> likely to be dropped.
> 
> Clyde Winklovic
> Winnipeg, MB
>
>

[Triple Bob]

They removed the gold due to jealousy.

[Shnak]

Pretty cool that you got an actual answer within an hour or two...

[Bubba]

Pretty cool that you got an actual answer within an hour or two...

I agree.  Hyundai Canada has always been quick in replying to my questions.

[Wheelboy]

They removed the gold due to jealousy.

They're replacing it with Envious Green.

[Factual]

Are you kidding? The Camry looks like a bloated Yaris! Yeah, real original.

The Yaris is somewhat bloated yes, but the Camry no. The Camry has short front and rear overhangs, clean, simple lines and nice proportions with no random character lines. Sorry, but I don't see it.

Calling the Camry bloated? Yeah, now that's original; good job on jumping onto the bandwagon  .

If the Camry is "bloated", then this new Sonata in comparison is obese.

So which sedan in this segment hits the elegant / subtle / distinctive triple-play in your opinion?

Jaeger

In my opinion the Camry and Fusion both achieve that. There is a very thin line between "bland" and subtle/elegant. People like to call VWs "subtle" and "elegant" yet the Camry is called both "bloated" and "bland" (which is an amusing contradiction, as a car cannot be BOTH bloated *and* bland, it's either one or the other) due to people jumping on the anti-Toyota bandwagon.

While to some a car might be "bland", that same car to others is going to look subtle/elegant.

The Fusion, like the Camry looks like no other sedan, and it has clean simple lines along with short front and rear overhangs.

"new and flashy" but not "distinctive" . Contradictory much...?

You do understand the definition of "new" right? In this context, I am referring to new as in of recent origin, or production, nothing more. I am not referring to new as in unfamiliar or novel.

Moving on, yes a car can be both "flashy" and lacking in distinction. The Sonata might look flashy to some people due to some overused styling gimmicks on the car, but that hardly makes it distinctive.

[rrocket]

Hyundai Canada responded!

------------------

Thanks for the quick response.  Eight colours is better, but I'd still like all ten! 

----- Original Message -----
From: Customer Service <CustomerRelations@HyundaiCanada.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 13:10
Subject: RE: 2011 Sonata
To: Clyde Winklovic

> Good day Clyde,
> 
> Thank you for your email. Please note that the 2011 Sonata will
> be offered in 8 colours. The colours have been updated on our
> website for your perusal.
> 
> Regards,
> Hyundai Auto Canada Corp.
> MQ/11003
> ________________________________
>
> From: Clyde Winklovic
> Sent: Wed 3/3/2010 11:55 AM
> To: Customer Service
> Subject: 2011 Sonata
 
> Hyundai's Canadian website is showing 5 colours available for
> the 2011 Sonata.  Hyundai's US site is showing 10 colours
> available.  I hope that's a mistake.
>
> Why are so few colours available in Canada?  The Sonatas
> being sold in Canada and the US come down the same assembly
> line, don't they?
>
> I had the 2011 Sonata on my short list to replace my 2002
> Sebring, but with the lack of choice in the colour area, it's
> likely to be dropped.
> 
> Clyde Winklovic
> Winnipeg, MB
>
>

You forgot to rag him about no "SE" model!! 

[Bubba]

You forgot to rag him about no "SE" model!! 

Thanks for the reminder!

[Jaeger]

In my opinion the Camry and Fusion both achieve that. There is a very thin line between "bland" and subtle/elegant. People like to call VWs "subtle" and "elegant" yet the Camry is called both "bloated" and "bland" (which is an amusing contradiction, as a car cannot be BOTH bloated *and* bland, it's either one or the other) due to people jumping on the anti-Toyota bandwagon.

While to some a car might be "bland", that same car to others is going to look subtle/elegant.

The Fusion, like the Camry looks like no other sedan, and it has clean simple lines along with short front and rear overhangs.

The Camry and Fusion are both decent-looking sedans,but the Fusion's big, brassy Gillete Mach 3 grille is anything but subtle, and neither vehicle would I describe as elegant - at least not when a Passat CC rolls by.  And as for them "looking like no other sedan"?  Dude, please.

Why not just leave it at you like what you like.  You don't like the look of the new Sonata?  That's more than okay by them, I'm sure.  But if you are holding up the Camry and Fusion as watershed examples of the height of sedan design, you'd better resign yourself to the fact that not everyone is going to see the automotive landscape in your very particular way.

Jaeger

[Benhaze]

In my opinion the Camry and Fusion both achieve that. There is a very thin line between "bland" and subtle/elegant. People like to call VWs "subtle" and "elegant" yet the Camry is called both "bloated" and "bland" (which is an amusing contradiction, as a car cannot be BOTH bloated *and* bland, it's either one or the other) due to people jumping on the anti-Toyota bandwagon.

While to some a car might be "bland", that same car to others is going to look subtle/elegant.

The Fusion, like the Camry looks like no other sedan, and it has clean simple lines along with short front and rear overhangs.

The Camry and Fusion are both decent-looking sedans,but the Fusion's big, brassy Gillete Mach 3 grille is anything but subtle, and neither vehicle would I describe as elegant - at least not when a Passat CC rolls by.  And as for them "looking like no other sedan"?  Dude, please.

Why not just leave it at you like what you like.  You don't like the look of the new Sonata?  That's more than okay by them, I'm sure.  But if you are holding up the Camry and Fusion as watershed examples of the height of sedan design, you'd better resign yourself to the fact that not everyone is going to see the automotive landscape in your very particular way.

Jaeger

Jaeger, 99% of all sedans look plain boring when compared to the CC...  That said, I must say the Camry SE (exterior) and Fusion Sport (2010) do stand out a bit.

[Factual_]

The Camry and Fusion are both decent-looking sedans,but the Fusion's big, brassy Gillete Mach 3 grille is anything but subtle, and neither vehicle would I describe as elegant - at least not when a Passat CC rolls by.  And as for them "looking like no other sedan"?  Dude, please.

Why not just leave it at you like what you like.  You don't like the look of the new Sonata?  That's more than okay by them, I'm sure.  But if you are holding up the Camry and Fusion as watershed examples of the height of sedan design, you'd better resign yourself to the fact that not everyone is going to see the automotive landscape in your very particular way.

Jaeger

Likewise, people also need to accept the fact that not everyone thinks the Camry is bland or bloated. The Camry is a very popular car, and I'm sure part of the reason for that is elegant, unoffensive styling.

Passat CC is more flashy than elegant, but we can agree to disagree. Also Passat CC competes more in the "upscale sedan/full size sedan" class, than the midsize sedan class.

"Dude, please"? So tell me, what cars actually DO look like a Camry or a Fusion (excluding the new Sonata)? I'm really curious to hear exactly what cars the Camry and Fusion look similar to.

As for "watershed examples of the height of sedan design", don't put words into my mouth. Stick to what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote.

The midsize sedan segment is highly receptive to subtle, inoffensive, and elegant designs. It has been like that for a long time. There are objective reasons why I feel the Camry and Fusion fit this description. Strong sales for both the Camry and Fusion also reflect this.

Further, the midsize sedan segment has not been receptive to awkward, overly flashy, gimmicky, or radical designs. Perfect example, 1996 Ford Taurus, otherwise known as "the oval". Again, the market has been like this for a long time.

Just because some people on the internet are praising the new Sonata, does not mean the market will be receptive to it. Time will tell how the market reacts.