Topic: Test Drive: 2010 VW Tiguan 2.0T Highline 4Motion

[Shnak]

  We could have gone with the new Kia Sorento and get a pano roof but both me and the wife aren't really sold on Kia right now even thoug the Sorento is exactly the same vehicle as the Santa Fe under the skin.  Plus I think the Santa Fe will have slightly better resale value than the Kia, and add in the fact that Hyundai actually has a better deal than the kia I can sacrifice the pano roof for the regular sunroof in our Limited model.

I know where you're coming from but I'm more or less sold on the Sorento, given all the additional features on it over the Santa Fe but pricing is such a disparity right now. When I mentioned the disparity between the Sorento and shared platform Santa Fe to a Kia dealer I was chastised by the sales manager who told me they weren't the same platform at all (instead the Sorento was essentially the same as the Veracruz!). When I told him I could easily find a dozen references on-line to support my case, he told me to come back after I look and "apologize to him". Most bizarre dealership experience I've ever had...

I know this will sound like I'm tooting my own horn but rarely do I ever meet an auto sales person who knows more about vehicles than me.  Most of the time I know more about their own product than they do and I don't think I've met sales person who knows their competition like I do.  So you have to understand to expect a sales person to know anything about a competitor is asking too much, heck this guy doesn't even know everything about his own product.  Make no mistake the new Sorento is the Hyundai, there are a few tweaks her and there but basically they are the same vehicle.  The Veracruz is a much bigger vehicle and I know this because I took one out and it has a legit 3rd row seat that adults can fit into.  If I were you and had this experience I would email him some info and ask that next time he should do his homework before mouthing off of a potential customer.

It is said that the new Sorento is based on a modified version of the Santa Fe platform. Suspension tuning is different, and so is the direction tweaking, I'm sure.

So yeah, the Sorento is basically a Santa Fe, but it's a 4-5 year newer design with all the tweaks associated with that. And Kia's are typically tuned a little sportier than Santa Fe.

And just looking at the feature set, the Sorento kills the Santa Fe. For example, you have to get into the Sport or Limited Santa Fe's to get heated seats and a trip computer; those are standard in ALL Sorentos! Automatic Dual Zone climate control is available on the Sorento EX models while, unless I missed it, it's not even available on the Santa Fe at all.

If you compare the feature set of the likely more popular models, Sorento LX-V6 ($29,095) and Santa Fe 3.5L GL AWD ($30,999), you get MORE in the Sorento. Heated seats, trip computer, steering wheel cruise control, Smart key push button ignition, Side mirrors integrated turn signals. And then, you can jump into the Sorento EX-V6 for $31,795 and get leather, dual zone climate control, power driver's seat, 18" alloys. But of course, one could say that all of this is moot with the incentives going on at Hyundai for the Santa Fe these days. Nevertheless, the Sorento can be had with features that just aren't available on the Santa Fe except the most expensive models, if at all.

[Susido]

I know where you're coming from but I'm more or less sold on the Sorento, given all the additional features on it over the Santa Fe but pricing is such a disparity right now. When I mentioned the disparity between the Sorento and shared platform Santa Fe to a Kia dealer I was chastised by the sales manager who told me they weren't the same platform at all (instead the Sorento was essentially the same as the Veracruz!). When I told him I could easily find a dozen references on-line to support my case, he told me to come back after I look and "apologize to him". Most bizarre dealership experience I've ever had...

I know this will sound like I'm tooting my own horn but rarely do I ever meet an auto sales person who knows more about vehicles than me.  Most of the time I know more about their own product than they do and I don't think I've met sales person who knows their competition like I do.  So you have to understand to expect a sales person to know anything about a competitor is asking too much, heck this guy doesn't even know everything about his own product.  Make no mistake the new Sorento is the Hyundai, there are a few tweaks her and there but basically they are the same vehicle.  The Veracruz is a much bigger vehicle and I know this because I took one out and it has a legit 3rd row seat that adults can fit into.  If I were you and had this experience I would email him some info and ask that next time he should do his homework before mouthing off of a potential customer.

Ah but this wasn't a salesperson who said this. This was THE sales manager! He told me in no uncertain terms that this was "his" dealership and he knows the cars he sells. Arrogant and ignorant beyond belief. The saleman I was with was, say we say, a bit agast. Oh, and I should note this wasn't my local Kia dealership in Medicine Hat, it was in Lethbridge...

[ktm525]

Same old VW problem. Vehicle prices out in the near luxury / luxury segment yet dealer experience is somewhere between Dodge and a sleazy used car lot.

[Mozeby]

I know where you're coming from but I'm more or less sold on the Sorento, given all the additional features on it over the Santa Fe but pricing is such a disparity right now. When I mentioned the disparity between the Sorento and shared platform Santa Fe to a Kia dealer I was chastised by the sales manager who told me they weren't the same platform at all (instead the Sorento was essentially the same as the Veracruz!). When I told him I could easily find a dozen references on-line to support my case, he told me to come back after I look and "apologize to him". Most bizarre dealership experience I've ever had...

I know this will sound like I'm tooting my own horn but rarely do I ever meet an auto sales person who knows more about vehicles than me.  Most of the time I know more about their own product than they do and I don't think I've met sales person who knows their competition like I do.  So you have to understand to expect a sales person to know anything about a competitor is asking too much, heck this guy doesn't even know everything about his own product.  Make no mistake the new Sorento is the Hyundai, there are a few tweaks her and there but basically they are the same vehicle.  The Veracruz is a much bigger vehicle and I know this because I took one out and it has a legit 3rd row seat that adults can fit into.  If I were you and had this experience I would email him some info and ask that next time he should do his homework before mouthing off of a potential customer.

Ah but this wasn't a salesperson who said this. This was THE sales manager! He told me in no uncertain terms that this was "his" dealership and he knows the cars he sells. Arrogant and ignorant beyond belief. The saleman I was with was, say we say, a bit agast. Oh, and I should note this wasn't my local Kia dealership in Medicine Hat, it was in Lethbridge...

I've been through the same type of experience except the guy wasn't such an A-hole like yours was.  Most sales people I meet don't know jack and are just there to pick up a paycheck.  ONly a few guys I've met (out of dozens) knew their products without needing to look it up on a computer or brochure.  These guys should be educated not only on their own cars but on others they compete against.  I wouldn't expect a Hyundai guy to know what BMW is doing but they should know as much about Toyota or Honda as they do their own product.

[John MacDonald]

  We could have gone with the new Kia Sorento and get a pano roof but both me and the wife aren't really sold on Kia right now even thoug the Sorento is exactly the same vehicle as the Santa Fe under the skin.  Plus I think the Santa Fe will have slightly better resale value than the Kia, and add in the fact that Hyundai actually has a better deal than the kia I can sacrifice the pano roof for the regular sunroof in our Limited model.

I know where you're coming from but I'm more or less sold on the Sorento, given all the additional features on it over the Santa Fe but pricing is such a disparity right now. When I mentioned the disparity between the Sorento and shared platform Santa Fe to a Kia dealer I was chastised by the sales manager who told me they weren't the same platform at all (instead the Sorento was essentially the same as the Veracruz!). When I told him I could easily find a dozen references on-line to support my case, he told me to come back after I look and "apologize to him". Most bizarre dealership experience I've ever had...

I know this will sound like I'm tooting my own horn but rarely do I ever meet an auto sales person who knows more about vehicles than me.  Most of the time I know more about their own product than they do and I don't think I've met sales person who knows their competition like I do.  So you have to understand to expect a sales person to know anything about a competitor is asking too much, heck this guy doesn't even know everything about his own product.  Make no mistake the new Sorento is the Hyundai, there are a few tweaks her and there but basically they are the same vehicle.  The Veracruz is a much bigger vehicle and I know this because I took one out and it has a legit 3rd row seat that adults can fit into.  If I were you and had this experience I would email him some info and ask that next time he should do his homework before mouthing off of a potential customer.

It is said that the new Sorento is based on a modified version of the Santa Fe platform. Suspension tuning is different, and so is the direction tweaking, I'm sure.

So yeah, the Sorento is basically a Santa Fe, but it's a 4-5 year newer design with all the tweaks associated with that. And Kia's are typically tuned a little sportier than Santa Fe.

And just looking at the feature set, the Sorento kills the Santa Fe. For example, you have to get into the Sport or Limited Santa Fe's to get heated seats and a trip computer; those are standard in ALL Sorentos! Automatic Dual Zone climate control is available on the Sorento EX models while, unless I missed it, it's not even available on the Santa Fe at all.

If you compare the feature set of the likely more popular models, Sorento LX-V6 ($29,095) and Santa Fe 3.5L GL AWD ($30,999), you get MORE in the Sorento. Heated seats, trip computer, steering wheel cruise control, Smart key push button ignition, Side mirrors integrated turn signals. And then, you can jump into the Sorento EX-V6 for $31,795 and get leather, dual zone climate control, power driver's seat, 18" alloys. But of course, one could say that all of this is moot with the incentives going on at Hyundai for the Santa Fe these days. Nevertheless, the Sorento can be had with features that just aren't available on the Santa Fe except the most expensive models, if at all.

The equipment lists on both the hyundai Santa Fe and the kia Sorento aren't complete.  You mentionthat the Santa Fe looks like it doesn't offer dual climate control but that is not the case, the limited models come with it.  Also looking at when the pano roof gets included in the Sorento is difficult as it isn't listed on the Kia website, which is strange.  Does it come on the EX-V6 model or the EX Luxury model?  If it comes on the lower level EX's then that's awesome but if it's only available on the top of the line EX Luxury model then it might explain the price a bit more.  I do understand that the Sorento comes with few things that trump the Santa fe, the push botton start, integrated signals inthe mirrors, pano sun roof, and one that you missed is the 3rd row seating.  But when looking at payments it becomes a bit harder to see what's the better deal.  For a Limited 2010 Santa fe financed over 5 years with 0 down the payment would be $709.53 and a $42,571.62 total price tag.  Where as the Ex-V6 Sorento the payment would be $700.54 with a total of $38,131.85 price tag.  But the difference between them is the Santa Fe definitely has a sun roof (not sure if the Sorento has one at that level) and it has the upgraded stereo that I know the Sorento doesn't have.  But when you compare the top of the lines with navigation the payments are $743.43 for the Santa Fe and $44,605.62 total price tag and the Sorentois $829.25 and a price tag of $45,137.85.  I will say that the Sorento is probably the better vehicle but me and my wife prefer the Hyundai because the payments are cheaper and the Hyundai name is getting more recognition than the Kia at the moment (which makes a difference when reselling the vehicle).

[Shnak]

But when looking at payments it becomes a bit harder to see what's the better deal.  For a Limited 2010 Santa fe financed over 5 years with 0 down the payment would be $709.53 and a $42,571.62 total price tag.  Where as the Ex-V6 Sorento the payment would be $700.54 with a total of $38,131.85 price tag.

Of course. I've said this for a while now, the current Santa Fe is an excellent deal because of its incentives. And then when the Santa Fe is redesigned, it'll be the Sorento that's the much better deal because of incentives.

My main problem with the Santa Fe right now is the packaging... The only way to get heated seats is with leather, and I don't want leather. Because of this, I'd have a hard time getting into a Santa Fe... Maybe they'll fix this next year.

[Ex-airbalancer]

But when looking at payments it becomes a bit harder to see what's the better deal.  For a Limited 2010 Santa fe financed over 5 years with 0 down the payment would be $709.53 and a $42,571.62 total price tag.  Where as the Ex-V6 Sorento the payment would be $700.54 with a total of $38,131.85 price tag.

Of course. I've said this for a while now, the current Santa Fe is an excellent deal because of its incentives. And then when the Santa Fe is redesigned, it'll be the Sorento that's the much better deal because of incentives.

My main problem with the Santa Fe right now is the packaging... The only way to get heated seats is with leather, and I don't want leather. Because of this, I'd have a hard time getting into a Santa Fe... Maybe they'll fix this next year.

Get after market heated seats $500 for the pair

[Wheelboy]

Get after market heated seats $500 for the pair

Any info on that?  Like Shnak I don't ever want any more leather arse-freezers.  There are a few heated cloth seat cars out there but not many.

[Ex-airbalancer]

It is what it cost me to get them in my truck
Lifetime warranty better then Hydundi's

[Wheelboy]

It is what it cost me to get them in my truck
Lifetime warranty better then Hydundi's

Yer teasin' us.  Where did you get them?  Install 'em yourself?  Was that the installed price?  Inquiring minds need to know!

[John MacDonald]

But when looking at payments it becomes a bit harder to see what's the better deal.  For a Limited 2010 Santa fe financed over 5 years with 0 down the payment would be $709.53 and a $42,571.62 total price tag.  Where as the Ex-V6 Sorento the payment would be $700.54 with a total of $38,131.85 price tag.

Of course. I've said this for a while now, the current Santa Fe is an excellent deal because of its incentives. And then when the Santa Fe is redesigned, it'll be the Sorento that's the much better deal because of incentives.

My main problem with the Santa Fe right now is the packaging... The only way to get heated seats is with leather, and I don't want leather. Because of this, I'd have a hard time getting into a Santa Fe... Maybe they'll fix this next year.

The previous year model got heated seats standard on all models but for 2010 they switched to offering Blue tooth and audio controls on the steering wheel that comes standard on all models.  I know that in Canada we'd probably prefer the heated seats but in the US they'd probably prefer the Blue tooth.  If you want heated seats with cloth you can get the Sport model and get a combo seat of premium cloth with leather bolsters.  I know it still has the leather part of it but the part that matters (right under your bum) is cloth so maybe it might be worth trying out on a cold day to see if it's better than just leather.

[Ex-airbalancer]

It is what it cost me to get them in my truck
Lifetime warranty better then Hydundi's

Yer teasin' us.  Where did you get them?  Install 'em yourself?  Was that the installed price?  Inquiring minds need to know!

Installed,
have your tried a google search heated seats?
http://www.webastoshowroom.com/seatcomfort/
http://www.webastoshowroom.com/locator/Ontario.html
I have used Total glass in Toronto to install a sunroof and heated seats in my pick up

[Andrew Clarke]

You mentioned that the BMW X3 was "the first to test these waters".  Perhaps you're looking at the Land Rover LR2 as a different model than the Freelander, which I suppose it technically is in Canada and the US.

However, in the rest of the world, the Land Rover LR2 is called the Freelander.  The Land Rover Freelander debuted in 1996, *7 years* before the BMW X3 in 2003.

[Wheelboy]

Why do you say that?   I suspect that the manual and slushbox will both go the way of the Dodo for smallish vehicles over the next few years.

Why should this DSG's oil change be such an absurd price and method of re-filling the oil?  Hundreds of dollars for a transmission oil change and one that's got to be filled from below?  Why couldn't we just pour it down a tube like a normal auto tranny?  Maybe this is meant to be part of the mystique and therefore, ridiculous cost.

[tpl]

Why do you say that?   I suspect that the manual and slushbox will both go the way of the Dodo for smallish vehicles over the next few years.

Why should this DSG's oil change be such an absurd price and method of re-filling the oil?  Hundreds of dollars for a transmission oil change and one that's got to be filled from below?  Why couldn't we just pour it down a tube like a normal auto tranny?  Maybe this is meant to be part of the mystique and therefore, ridiculous cost.

You can indeed fill it from the top but I gather it takes forever to do it and you would still have to get the level right.

I suggest two things. 
1) the wet clutches need a fluid with very specific characteristics to get acceptable life. Note that the manual says to thoroughly shake the jugs of fluid before adding it.
2) The whole gearbox, including the clutches is sensitive to the fluid level and if it is too high that it will be frothed up by the gears and  the oil pump will pump bubbles around.

The fluid is quite expensive... but then so is the engine oil for the newest diesel engines... so what.

If you don't want a DSG VW offer a proper manual gearbox. If you can't live with that then too bad.

It ain't just VW going the DSG way.   Porsche, Ferrari, BMW as well.

[Wheelboy]

You can indeed fill it from the top but I gather it takes forever to do it

Then they need a bigger hole.

you would still have to get the level right.

Like every engine, tranny and diff that I've ever known.

1) the wet clutches need a fluid with very specific characteristics to get acceptable life.
2) The whole gearbox, including the clutches is sensitive to the fluid level and if it is too high that it will be frothed up by the gears and  the oil pump will pump bubbles around.  The fluid is quite expensive...

Sounds like every auto tranny I've ever worked on.  That's back when mechanics did work on transmissions other than removing and replacing them.

[quadzilla]

It ain't just VW going the DSG way.   Porsche, Ferrari, BMW as well.

Isn't Ford going to be next?