Topic: First Drive: 2011 Chevrolet Volt, pre-production model

[rrocket]

I am greenery from way back , a lot of jobs now are based on LEED Building, high efficient unit, using rain water for grey water

Heh...big news in Windsor this week is the very first LEED certified building will be built later this year.  A bit behind the times IMO...

[G35X]

Thank you Mr. Wilson and tpl for explanation and clarification.
From the Cypress Bowl Rd. exit to the ski hill parking lot you bring the 2000kg car up by about 600 meters, for which you need about 12MJ of extra energy. If you want to make the ascent in 10 minutes the extra power required is about 20KW in addition to the power requirement to go on a flat road, which should be about 30KW. Taking the loss in the generator, power electronics and motor, 53KW is barely enough to accomplish the task. 

Actually I am hoping that my assumption will be proven wrong.  Then, serial ICE>electric motor design with a sub-100HP ICE will be the standard motivational method for every day car with, perhaps, much smaller, lighter and cheaper battery buffer.  EV range can be as short as 20km. Still it means a tremendous saving of fossil fuel use.

[tpl]

The good thing about the Volt IMO  is that, as battery tech improves, it should be scalable in both directions... so is a Prius style hybrid but because both motors drive the wheels and therefore require a gearbox it is cheaper to scale the Volt way.   I wonder how long before a Volt GT with a more powerful motor-generator set and a battery that is  a bit bigger but allowed to go down to a lower state of charge to give better acceleration for longer. OR before someone hacks the Volt software for the same effect.   After all... this is North America... people who race bar stools and lawn mowers will certainly want to race a Volt

[Alcor]

Some GM's numbers for Volt are contradictory. 8.8 kWh available at best which results in 35 mile, not 40 of electric only range even according to GM. It looks like a lot of wishful thinking is involved here. Did anyone ever tested that claim? Also I am wondering what all those number will look like during 6 month long canadian winter?

[Ex-airbalancer]

I am greenery from way back , a lot of jobs now are based on LEED Building, high efficient unit, using rain water for grey water

Heh...big news in Windsor this week is the very first LEED certified building will be built later this year.  A bit behind the times IMO...

WOW, Leed as been around for a while, that is surprising

[Ex-airbalancer]

First time technology is always pricey
First Plasma TV where over 15gs,
I just look at it, as cost for improving our standard of living in a better environment

 it cost more to recycle our garbage then to bury it, but that is better in the long run?

Just like Over 50 buy a costly M3, the improvement that are found in is car is the testing grounds that will find its way to cheap models

Have fun today and someone go for a drive for me!!!
I have insulated a crawl space today 

[EV Dan]

Thank you Mr. Wilson and tpl for explanation and clarification.
From the Cypress Bowl Rd. exit to the ski hill parking lot you bring the 2000kg car up by about 600 meters, for which you need about 12MJ of extra energy. If you want to make the ascent in 10 minutes the extra power required is about 20KW in addition to the power requirement to go on a flat road, which should be about 30KW. Taking the loss in the generator, power electronics and motor, 53KW is barely enough to accomplish the task. 

Actually I am hoping that my assumption will be proven wrong.  Then, serial ICE>electric motor design with a sub-100HP ICE will be the standard motivational method for every day car with, perhaps, much smaller, lighter and cheaper battery buffer.  EV range can be as short as 20km. Still it means a tremendous saving of fossil fuel use.

I too root for GM on this one since besides the Leaf it might be the only EV planned in sufficient numbers to make a real impact on our oil consumption while hopefully showing EVs work and are not more complicating in everyday life than charging a cell phone, with batteries just as reliable.
As for the climbing issue, IIRC Volt engineers have said that the pack could go below 30% SoC if such power demand arises giving some extra juice for a short time. It is only an issue if the pack is discharged before the climb and even then the worst that could happen you'd have to go slower than a highway speed.
IMO the price tag will largely decide if the Volt is a success story.

[dirtyjeffer]

i have wondered for well over a decade why we didn't have an electric car with a small diesel engine connected to a generator (like a locomotive)...that would be by far the most efficient means of transportation.

it's too bad the rumoured price for the volt is going to be $50,000, because that puts it in a category where people who want to spend $50k want a name like BMW, Lexus or Mercedes, not a Chevy.

[Seafoam]

I can see this being a great commuter car with the correct amount of range for the average person. It probably
wouldn't make  a great taxi though would it? I wonder what the average km a taxi drives in a day?What is the range for the 1.4 liter gas engine?

[Benhaze]

Mass production by the end of 2010? If it is accurate that only 2 hand-built cars have been produced so far, I don't see how that can happen. A car manufacturer would normally need 2 build phases in the production assembly plant before the vehicle would be launched; there is not enough time left to do so, test the vehicles, make the design and production changes to address all newly found issues. And this is a standard process for conventional technology, nothing like bringing to market new hybrid technology.

It takes months to run durability tests, engineer design changes and get suppliers & assembly plant to implement and validate these changes. I find the mentioned time line very worrisome and frankly, not very credible.

[Leviathan]

Mass production by the end of 2010? If it is accurate that only 2 hand-built cars have been produced so far, I don't see how that can happen. A car manufacturer would normally need 2 build phases in the production assembly plant before the vehicle would be launched; there is not enough time left to do so, test the vehicles, make the design and production changes to address all newly found issues. And this is a standard process for conventional technology, nothing like bringing to market new hybrid technology.

It takes months to run durability tests, engineer design changes and get suppliers & assembly plant to implement and validate these changes. I find the mentioned time line very worrisome and frankly, not very credible.

There's ~80 pre-production vehicles currently out there but they aren't production "complete" like this one. The first production validation models will be coming off the actual production line in May.

http://gm-volt.com/2010/02/18/chevy-volt-gas-engine-will-run-every-60-days-no-matter-what/

Thus far, the 80 or so pre-production Volts have endured over 500,000 collective miles of test driving, with one car having completed 66,000 miles.

Starting in May, 300 more pre-production or validation vehicles will be built on the full-scale Detroit Hamtramck assembly line. These will be used for testing by engineers, consumers, and the media.

[Leviathan]

It probably wouldn't make  a great taxi though would it? I wonder what the average km a taxi drives in a day?What is the range for the 1.4 liter gas engine?

The seating for 4 only and the battery splitting the rear seat probably takes it out of the Taxi business. But even if it ran gas only in town it should still put out some pretty good mileage figures.

[MKII]

Where is all the talk about who is supplying the charge stations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/politics_show/regions/west_midlands/8324838.stm

[Rupert]

If the Volt works as stated then they will not be needed.

[lindtech]

I wish them well but there are a large no of issues that have to be resolved before it is practical in Canada.  Except for Vancouver, the rest of the country requires heat at least 6 months of the year.  The gas engine will provide that but at what cost to equivalent gas mileage?  If they become a success, then they should be paying road tax on the power they use as other vehicles pay when thay gas up.  Also if they use enough power they will force increased investments in power generation that might normally have been required.  These are all distinct costs and have to be added in to the rosy estimates GM is giving on the cost of driving these cars.  It will be interesting.

[Ex-airbalancer]

At the moment some hydro electric generating station have to turned off over night since it would cost generating plant to sell the power( from my inside source who runs a small generating company
SO if you have these car plug in over night , they could make some money

[Mike Johnson]

Boycott Government Motors, and force GM to shut the doors. It's the only way to stop Washington and Ottawa from wasting our money on GM and especially on the Volt.

[Rupert]

If it works as stated and is reliable and is aimed at the $20,000 bracket...then it could be a game changer and we taxpayers could get our money back. All you need is an ordinary electrical outlet on your driveway or garage. The price is the key issue here. If it is aimed to be a play toy for the rich then forget it.
It seems to me that more than one breakthrough is needed here and making it offshore might be the only way to go. Bo....ks to trickle down.
Relief from oil dependency and overall eccology are the important items here. For most of us anyway.

[tpl]

From all reports it will be more like $40,000 in the US and as usual more here.    Seems to me that if, option for option, it costs more than a Prius in Canada  then it won't sell too well.  For all of Toyota's current problems the Prius is still a reliable well tested car.  The Prius has the advantage that it does not require to be plugged in... this is important for the many, many people in cities who have to park on the street.

And I don't want either of them for myself.

[Rupert]

At that price it is already a failure IMO. Note the point about your disdain and street parking but there is a huge market out there that does have access to an overnight plug-in point; which at the right entry level price point would be very interested in this...A to B (if you have to) vehicle. It's the overall eccology that has to be right though. People like me would put hardly any gas in it at all and I dont need to be able to corner on rails but you see...I don't put much gas in my nifty little Accent now; similar to you in your Fit and many people in a similar situation would view with disdain an expensive move to save that meager amount.
I think that the industry has talked it's clients into a gourmet meal over time when regular fare is what is required. No wine at all realy...drop of real ale though...oh and a plate of whelks. I am begining to go off this project. They may have the funds for it...I sure don't.