Topic: First Drive: 2011 Chevrolet Volt, pre-production model

[Leviathan]

Quick question: if the gas engine improves the range to 500km, what happens when you reach that limit? does it only mean that at that point, you have to fill up gas just like any other car? I assume so, but just checking.

Correct.

[secret identity]

Sounds like some positive review of the way the drivetrain works in real world. Good news.

I do continue to question why they keep using the numbers they do.

They say the TYPICAL person commutes less than 64 Km and that the Volt has enough range to satisfy the average commute on battery.

BUT while 64 or less may be the typical  commute meanning some are higher and some are lower they aren't comparing it to the TYPICAL Volt battery range...they are comparing it to the MAXIMUM battery range.

We all know that the maximum batter range is uner the best of conditons. Do people typically do their 64 km commute under optimum conditons?

I think its a little misleading to compare the typical commute to the maximum batter range. They have had enough testing done to come up with a typical range

History seems to repeat itself with the General, most if not all claims made are inflated and misleading.  I doubt the claimed MPG, range, cost....for this car is not inflated.

[Rupert]

The article says that the engine does not drive the wheels …so does that not mean that it is not like a typical hybrid and more like a diesel electric loco. It does have regenerative braking though. The engine seemingly only drives a generator for charging the battery. 65km before the engine comes into play sounds great to me and when I think about it, that klickage will do most of my trips. I don’t know what the efficiency is of getting the 70 or so HP to the wheels…but doubt that, for the majority of most motoring, more than that is needed. It will always get you there and back seemingly.
Charging overnight makes great sense for nuclear power stations. The off peak extra demand will help keep them working at optimum capacity.
Depends upon original cost though.
Hmm..the engine would go a long time between starts for me. I would have to not plug it in occasionally to give it a work out.

[tpl]

That's right Rupert.  Just like a railway engine but with a battery in the way.  Yes it does regenerative braking. I'd bet that the generator and the electric motor are very efficient and the mechanical drivetrain is as well.
I read on some GM Volt site that the gas engine will run once in a while, if all your trips between recharges are short ones, just to keep itself ready to go.


I still don't want one.

[ovr50]

tpl - "I still don't want one."

Ditto, electric cars will have to come a very long way before I would want such a thing. With any luck, I'll never get one.

[vdk]

I don't think there will be any choice in the future. I can see myself driving an electric/hybrid car on weekdays, and a toy on weekends.

[safristi]

I don't think there will be any choice in the future. I can see myself driving an electric/hybrid car on weekdays, and a toy on weekends.

............................i see your FUTURE and raise U................can u print some olde Science mags.......u know by now we should be jet packing to the pellet store for a years supply of "fodder" in pill form  yada yada yada...............

[Trainman]

The article says that the engine does not drive the wheels …so does that not mean that it is not like a typical hybrid and more like a diesel electric loco. ....

That's right Rupert.  Just like a railway engine but with a battery in the way.  ....

If this was a locomotive, it would indeed be labeled as a hybrid.  Railpower Technologies made a similar (in concept) locomotive: it had a 300 hp Cummings diesel that only charged the large bank of batteries.  The locomotive was rated at 2,000 hp for traction, all from the batteries.

Railpower is no longer, whether due to poor technology and/or finances, I do not know.  The current flavor is genset technology, were there are multiple low HP engines that come on/off as demand warrants.  Interesting to see that the railways have shied away from the battery power types.  May say something about the ability of batteries to last under very harsh conditions.

Semantics aside, I too was wondering how it would do on hills.  I look forward to seeing a full road test sometime in the next 12 months.

[vdk]

I don't think there will be any choice in the future. I can see myself driving an electric/hybrid car on weekdays, and a toy on weekends.

............................i see your FUTURE and raise U................can u print some olde Science mags.......u know by now we should be jet packing to the pellet store for a years supply of "fodder" in pill form  yada yada yada...............

You think we'll go much further on oil? I don't.

[Ex-airbalancer]

tpl - "I still don't want one."

Ditto, electric cars will have to come a very long way before I would want such a thing. With any luck, I'll never get one.

I wondered is that your ancestors said when they saw their first car,
I guess  they stayed with their horse and buggy
Never say never
 

[tpl]

I don't think there will be any choice in the future. I can see myself driving an electric/hybrid car on weekdays, and a toy on weekends.

Well maybe for you but Ovr and I, we are old enough that there will be oil for the rest of our lifetimes... Dunno about me but I bet Ovr is rich enough to be able to afford it as well.   

[tpl]

tpl - "I still don't want one."

Ditto, electric cars will have to come a very long way before I would want such a thing. With any luck, I'll never get one.

I wondered is that your ancestors said when they saw their first car,
I guess  they stayed with their horse and buggy
Never say never
 

Airb, since you bought a Prius for the CEO you have developed a rather unhealthy looking green streak.

    

[Ex-airbalancer]

I am greenery from way back , a lot of jobs now are based on LEED Building, high efficient unit, using rain water for grey water

[tpl]

I am greenery from way back , a lot of jobs now are based on LEED Building, high efficient unit, using rain water for grey water

Phew!  That's ok, the disease is fully controlled then.   

[editorgreg]

How will the car be heated in the winter?  Will the gas engine have to run constantly to keep the car warm?  Or will the batteries power a heater as well?
And, if the batteries aren't designed to be swapped out, what happens when they die, which they eventually will.

I'm going to try to answer some of the questions asked here based on what the GM engineer told me and GM's press material:  The Volt has an electric heater powered off the battery.  If the Volt is charged overnight, it will operate the heater for up to 64 km without the gas engine having to start up to recharge the battery. CanadianDriver looks forward to testing a Volt in the middle of an Ottawa winter to seeing how long the battery charge will last.

As far as the lithium ion battery goes, the GM engineer told me that it will still have 70% capacity when it "dies" and can be re-used by stationary powerplants, wind farms and remote areas to store energy.  If you own a ten-year old Volt and the battery dies, it can be replaced, but it will probably be expensive - maybe more than the value of the car. But no pricing figures were given.

[editorgreg]

How much will it cost?

GM hasn't set a price for the Volt yet.  But realistically, how much can you charge for a non-luxury four-passenger compact hatchback?  I would guess a base MSRP under $30,000.  Greg Wilson

[editorgreg]

Like many other reviews that preceded Mr. Wilson’s article, there is no mention about how the Volt drove going up hill under the CS mode.  Certainly he could have tried going up to the parking lot of Cypress Mountain with his press credential.  Running around in downtown Vancouver or on the TC-1 is not a real test for a car with 53KW(71HP) ICE.  On a flat road you do not need even 90KW(120HP), which Mr. Wilson said of the Volt’s motor output most of the time.  When starting from a standstill, yes, you need all the power. But once settled down to a cruising speed, even with heater and lights on, probably you need less than 30KW. But going up hill is entirely different story.  Essentially speaking on the CS mode, your source of power is the 53KW generator.  For a short burst of power you can tap into the battery for more power in such a case as passing a slow going truck.  But, that is only for a short period of time.  Going up Cypress Bowl Rd. at 60km/h is another story.  Once the reserve energy in the battery is used up in a few minutes (you do not want to go below 30% SOC too long a time) your sole source of power is the anemic ICE. The Volt is rather heavy… probably close to 2000kg with four medium size Canadians onboard.

If my concern is proven wrong, then the Volt rewrote the whole notion of the car and its required power.  If 71HP is enough for a car of this size, why bother with 150, 200 or even 300HP engines even for a family car.

Because the Volts I drove were prototypes, they could only be driven on one-way streets with a GM engineer beside me.  I had to switch places with the GM engineer when we reached a two-way street because the Volt's temporary registration didn't allow a non GM driver to drive on a two-way street!  I wasn't allowed to drive outside the park up Cypress Mountain.  Stanley Park isn't entirely flat though - there is a long uphill section coming up to the Lion's Gate Bridge of maybe 5 degrees and I was able to accelerate briskly up that hill with no problem.  I don't know how long I could accelerate up a steep hill before the battery charge depleted, but if the motor/generator were to cut in at that point, it would charge the battery to the point where it would still put out 90 kW, so I'm guessing it would have no problem - when I get a production Volt, I'll definately try that out.   Greg Wilson

[ovr50]

I don't think there will be any choice in the future. I can see myself driving an electric/hybrid car on weekdays, and a toy on weekends.

Well maybe for you but Ovr and I, we are old enough that there will be oil for the rest of our lifetimes... Dunno about me but I bet Ovr is rich enough to be able to afford it as well.   

I wish....OTOH, realistically, if I was concerned about gas costs, I won't be driving an M3. 

Once again, life is too short to drink cheap wine, etc etc.

[tpl]

Like many other reviews that preceded Mr. Wilson’s article, there is no mention about how the Volt drove going up hill under the CS mode.  Certainly he could have tried going up to the parking lot of Cypress Mountain with his press credential.  Running around in downtown Vancouver or on the TC-1 is not a real test for a car with 53KW(71HP) ICE.  On a flat road you do not need even 90KW(120HP), which Mr. Wilson said of the Volt’s motor output most of the time.  When starting from a standstill, yes, you need all the power. But once settled down to a cruising speed, even with heater and lights on, probably you need less than 30KW. But going up hill is entirely different story.  Essentially speaking on the CS mode, your source of power is the 53KW generator.  For a short burst of power you can tap into the battery for more power in such a case as passing a slow going truck.  But, that is only for a short period of time.  Going up Cypress Bowl Rd. at 60km/h is another story.  Once the reserve energy in the battery is used up in a few minutes (you do not want to go below 30% SOC too long a time) your sole source of power is the anemic ICE. The Volt is rather heavy… probably close to 2000kg with four medium size Canadians onboard.

If my concern is proven wrong, then the Volt rewrote the whole notion of the car and its required power.  If 71HP is enough for a car of this size, why bother with 150, 200 or even 300HP engines even for a family car.

Because the Volts I drove were prototypes, they could only be driven on one-way streets with a GM engineer beside me.  I had to switch places with the GM engineer when we reached a two-way street because the Volt's temporary registration didn't allow a non GM driver to drive on a two-way street!  I wasn't allowed to drive outside the park up Cypress Mountain.  Stanley Park isn't entirely flat though - there is a long uphill section coming up to the Lion's Gate Bridge of maybe 5 degrees and I was able to accelerate briskly up that hill with no problem.  I don't know how long I could accelerate up a steep hill before the battery charge depleted, but if the motor/generator were to cut in at that point, it would charge the battery to the point where it would still put out 90 kW, so I'm guessing it would have no problem - when I get a production Volt, I'll definately try that out.   Greg Wilson

53Kw is about 70 hp   so it will go up hills even loaded but on a long steep hill you may be in the truck lane.   G35X's point as I understand it is that sooner or later the battery will be at its minimum allowed charge and ALL the electricity to run the motor and ancillaries will have to come from the gas engine just using the battery as an intermediary; that is, there will be no "charging" that is not immediately used by the traction motor. The battery will just stay at 30%. At that point the hp of the gas engine is all there is or the output of the generator which will be a bit less than the gas engines output.

I am sure that one of the US Car mags will manage to test this and make the results public... doesn't need a long hill, a chassis dyno will do just fine.

[Rupert]

It seems to me that if this is all true then this will be cutting edge and fine wine will possibly become old wine...a slight vinegar taste maybe. Anyway it's the meal that counts. It might be a commuter or local transport vehicle though but that is exactly what 99% of it is about.
I am not a GM person myself but hope that this is a step forward. It seems like a good idea. If offpeak hydro can be used to advantage it would be a step in the right direction as long as, overall, the carbon footprint is less.
Actually I prefer a pint of Ansells...a real ale in a decent measure...oh and a Morgan Aero from Malvern.