Topic: Test Drive: 2010 Porsche Panamera 4S

[wing]

The STI is nowhere close to as fast as this porsche it does 0-60 in 3.9s  The thing is wonder of the earth

[Triple Bob]

 
 "I disagree. There are not "a LOT" of vehicles for a fraction of the price that make more sense than the Panamera. Actually, short of Audi's forbidden fruit RS-series wagons, i can't think of any other hatchbacks/wagons that have all the Panamera's abilities. Sure, a Subaru STI is just as quick, and an Audi A6 wagon is just as luxurious, but neither will combine the two elements as well as will the Porsche."

 Not if you are talking about the Porsche's PERFORMANCE capability, NO, but my point is that a lot of that capability is only important sitting around talking about specifications. looking out my window at the 4 foot snow drift, most of what this car can do means nothing. If a buyer were to buy buy a car based on practicality or sensibility, there are many less expensive vehicles, that can serve the purpose of providing a good vehicle that can carry four people and some luggage. If you add better fuel economy, more luggage space, AWD, seating for 5 etc, then a very large number of less prestigious vehicles would work very well. 

 My point is that this vehicle is not bought with practicality or sensibility being the deciding factor, or even an important factor. If you really want one, fine, I am sure it is a great car in many ways, but that doesn't make it a "practical" choice

To me, cars like this make way more sense in Germany than they do in Canada.

[lebowski]

The STI is nowhere close to as fast as this porsche it does 0-60 in 3.9s  The thing is wonder of the earth

My bad, i thought the STi was like 4.5s to 60 and the Panamera 4S was in the low 4's. I stand corrected. 

 
 "I disagree. There are not "a LOT" of vehicles for a fraction of the price that make more sense than the Panamera. Actually, short of Audi's forbidden fruit RS-series wagons, i can't think of any other hatchbacks/wagons that have all the Panamera's abilities. Sure, a Subaru STI is just as quick, and an Audi A6 wagon is just as luxurious, but neither will combine the two elements as well as will the Porsche."

 Not if you are talking about the Porsche's PERFORMANCE capability, NO, but my point is that a lot of that capability is only important sitting around talking about specifications. looking out my window at the 4 foot snow drift, most of what this car can do means nothing. If a buyer were to buy buy a car based on practicality or sensibility, there are many less expensive vehicles, that can serve the purpose of providing a good vehicle that can carry four people and some luggage. If you add better fuel economy, more luggage space, AWD, seating for 5 etc, then a very large number of less prestigious vehicles would work very well. 

 My point is that this vehicle is not bought with practicality or sensibility being the deciding factor, or even an important factor. If you really want one, fine, I am sure it is a great car in many ways, but that doesn't make it a "practical" choice

I couldn’t disagree more. The Panamera’s incredible handling (I’m assuming it’s incredible, anyway) would likely be used and appreciated every day: On highway on-ramps, passing maneuvers, ducking in and out of traffic, powering up icy hills, the list goes on…forget the pleasure you’d get from driving it, it’s probably one of the safest cars out there because of its size, weight, and superior ability to get out of its own way.

Let’s have some perspective here: This car is not a Bugatti Veyron. this is a 400hp, 4000+lb. car that happens to drive better than any other big sedan on the road. How is that impractical - because it’s a bit more expensive than its competitors?

TJL, I obviously can’t speak to your own driving needs/habits, and I agree that a Panamera in a 4-foot snow drift would be useless, but so would any other car or even non-prepped SUV, so I don’t really see your point. FWIW, there’s rarely more than half a foot of snow on the streets I drive on, so the Panamera would do very nicely indeed for me – just need to win the lottery now.

Let’s not forget that, despite their higher-than-avg. cost of ownership, most Porsches (save, perhaps, their GT race cars)  are not meant to be garage queens – these aren’t Ferraris or Astons – they’re meant to be driven daily as relatively practical high-performance cars. Heck, some Porsche models are likely more reliable than some BMW’s and Mercedes of recent vintage.

@Just Bob, agreed that a car like this would be so much better on the Autobahn, but I’m glad it’s here. For sure, one could argue that pretty much any car with 300+hp is not *needed* on North American roads. But that argument is pretty well-worn, and it probably doesn't hold much weight for the guy who is considering a 400hp mustang over a more practical Honda Fit. It's the beauty of choice!

[Triple Bob]

@Just Bob, agreed that a car like this would be so much better on the Autobahn, but I’m glad it’s here. For sure, one could argue that pretty much any car with 300+hp is not *needed* on North American roads. But that argument is pretty well-worn, and it probably doesn't hold much weight for the guy who is considering a 400hp mustang over a more practical Honda Fit. It's the beauty of choice!

LOL, that's why I didn't say the power wasn't "needed".    You are arguing with your interpretation of what you think I said, not with me. 

[lebowski]

LOL, that's why I didn't say the power wasn't "needed".    You are arguing with your interpretation of what you think I said, not with me. 

Naw, maybe your original comment could have been better fleshed out, but I think I interpreted it pretty well 

FYI I used those asterisks not for quotes from your comment, but for emphasis on the word I chose.

You wrote "To me, cars like this make way more sense in Germany than they do in Canada."

I inferred you meant Porsches make more sense in Germany, because their high-power motors and superior handling can be better exploited in a country with better roads and higher speed limits, i.e. Germany.

Did I miss something else?

[Shnak]

Meh, Crosstour looks better.

[tpl]

LOL, that's why I didn't say the power wasn't "needed".    You are arguing with your interpretation of what you think I said, not with me. 

Naw, maybe your original comment could have been better fleshed out, but I think I interpreted it pretty well 

FYI I used those asterisks not for quotes from your comment, but for emphasis on the word I chose.

You wrote "To me, cars like this make way more sense in Germany than they do in Canada."

I inferred you meant Porsches make more sense in Germany, because their high-power motors and superior handling can be better exploited in a country with better roads and higher speed limits, i.e. Germany.

Did I miss something else?

Apart from some Autobahn sections with no limits ( fewer every year) I thought that Germany's expressways were mostly 120 or 130 km/h and the 2 laners mostly 90 km/h with plenty of 80 Km/h sections.   Which isn't a lot faster than parts of NA. I wouldn't try to argue that their roads may be in better condition than here tho'.   In fact, apart from those unlimited sections in Germany I think that 130 km/h is the fastest of any Eu expressway.  France is 130 on toll sections else 120. Spain is 120. UK 70 mph ( 112 km) Italy I think is 120.  Holland and Belgium 120 .

Edit.  I misremember some of them but Google is my friend.  http://www.europe.org/speedlimits.html     

[SJP]

Lebowski said"I couldn’t disagree more. The Panamera’s incredible handling (I’m assuming it’s incredible, anyway) would likely be used and appreciated every day: On highway on-ramps, passing maneuvers, ducking in and out of traffic, powering up icy hills, the list goes on…forget the pleasure you’d get from driving it, it’s probably one of the safest cars out there because of its size, weight, and superior ability to get out of its own way. "

I never said it would not be fun to drive, but day to day, in traffic, I have never exceeded the limits of my Mazdaspeed 3, whose limits are much lower than the Porsche. All that extra power is great too, but how many people will open the taps on the way to work?

 As far as 4 foot snow drifts, your comments prove my point, no vehicle would be any better, but nor would it be any worse. Why not a used Ford Focus with a good set of snow tires, how much would that 400 HP help?

Again, my point is not that this is not a great car in many ways, and that the driver won't enjoy wheel time, but trying to rationalize it as a sensible choice doesn't make sense to me. It is an emotional choice, or a fashion choice. The idea that 400+ horsepower helps on the trip to get groceries makes little sense.

[safristi]

..I suffer the same conundrum takin' my SUPERMODEL dates to the DOLLAR STORE for some smoked oysters..........................


...altho I imagine either would be great  wide open on those deserted backroads in Teaxas.Utah,NewMexico<Arizona and Nevada............but bring mucho EUROS fer the COPS oh and the LADIES.........................

[ovr50]

I am somewhat surprised that so many posters are concerned over "practicality" regarding cars like this one. Of course, 400+ hp for going to the grocery store is not practical. So what?

Is that what it's all about here, practical? If so, drive a base Corolla or Civic or Accent. Beige, of course.

This is a car enthusiasts site, we talk about neat cars and generally love cars that are strong, handle well and go like stink. It's OK to like practical cars, just don't bemoan about cars like the Panamera being not practical. It's not made for you if you don't see the appeal in the car.

This post is not directed at any one poster, just a comment based on a number of recent posts.

BTW, I think the new Panamera looks fine (in the "Porsche way") and probably is a hell of a fun driver. 

[lebowski]

Lebowski said"I couldn’t disagree more. The Panamera’s incredible handling (I’m assuming it’s incredible, anyway) would likely be used and appreciated every day: On highway on-ramps, passing maneuvers, ducking in and out of traffic, powering up icy hills, the list goes on…forget the pleasure you’d get from driving it, it’s probably one of the safest cars out there because of its size, weight, and superior ability to get out of its own way. "

I never said it would not be fun to drive, but day to day, in traffic, I have never exceeded the limits of my Mazdaspeed 3, whose limits are much lower than the Porsche. All that extra power is great too, but how many people will open the taps on the way to work?

 As far as 4 foot snow drifts, your comments prove my point, no vehicle would be any better, but nor would it be any worse. Why not a used Ford Focus with a good set of snow tires, how much would that 400 HP help?

Again, my point is not that this is not a great car in many ways, and that the driver won't enjoy wheel time, but trying to rationalize it as a sensible choice doesn't make sense to me. It is an emotional choice, or a fashion choice. The idea that 400+ horsepower helps on the trip to get groceries makes little sense.

@SJP, fair point, but  the Panamera is a sensible choice exactly because it *can* get groceries but it also *can* rip to 60mph quicker than most sports cars, when you want it to. It's a great all-in-one car for the enthusiast. The fact that you can get supercar performance in a practical, luxurious package, negates the need for a second, dedicated sports car, and proves this car’s practicality, from the enthusiast’s perspective.

Your needs for a commuter car are not the same as everyone’s. Yes, Mazda3 is a great car, but when you do want to drive spiritedly, rather than drive the Mazda home and slip into the weekender sports car you might have waiting in your garage, the Panamera offers something approaching an all-in-one proposition;  some people, even if they could afford a 2nd car, only want one, i.e. many city dwellers.

I still am not getting your point re: 4 foot snow drift. Agreed, yes, you aren’t going anywhere in either car, sure, understood. Where I live, I never encounter a 4-foot drift, or at least not one that I absolutely need to get through. And if I did, I’d probably be staying home anyway.

As for commutes, personally, I look forward to driving my turbo Subaru after a long work day, and I definitely enjoy the rush of the turbo boost and AWD handling, even if I only get to use it for a combined 30 seconds of my 20 minute drive home, traffic being what it is. And I’m sure those 30 seconds would be that much more fun with another 150hp and proper 50-50 weight distribution. But I digress.

Objectively, of course, I’ll concede there is little practical about a $100k, 400hp, hatchback that only seats 4. But where is the cutoff here? At what price and what HP rating does a car go from being a highly capable all-rounder, to a purely emotional choice? If on-road performance and driving fun is paramount on one’s list of criteria, and one can afford it, then the Panamera can be immensely practical, based on one’s own, subjective needs.

[lebowski]

Apart from some Autobahn sections with no limits ( fewer every year) I thought that Germany's expressways were mostly 120 or 130 km/h and the 2 laners mostly 90 km/h with plenty of 80 Km/h sections.   Which isn't a lot faster than parts of NA. I wouldn't try to argue that their roads may be in better condition than here tho'.   In fact, apart from those unlimited sections in Germany I think that 130 km/h is the fastest of any Eu expressway.  France is 130 on toll sections else 120. Spain is 120. UK 70 mph ( 112 km) Italy I think is 120.  Holland and Belgium 120 .

Edit.  I misremember some of them but Google is my friend.  http://www.europe.org/speedlimits.html     

@TPL, interesting, I didn't know that about the Autobahn and other European roads. I admit I had just assumed the Autobahn was unrestricted everywhere, except for in the city centers. Good to know

[The Mighty Duck]

Again, my point is not that this is not a great car in many ways, and that the driver won't enjoy wheel time, but trying to rationalize it as a sensible choice doesn't make sense to me. It is an emotional choice, or a fashion choice. The idea that 400+ horsepower helps on the trip to get groceries makes little sense.

Yeah, but no one is making a serious argument that it's a logical choice. Logically, there could be one automaker selling a compact, a pickup truck, and a minivan, and that would take care of probably 90% of the population's needs.

All vehicles have an emotional component to their purchase. This is no different.

The point is, if you're in the market for a $150 000 sport sedan (a totally non-sensible and illogical market), then this is a great choice.

[safristi]

..fair comment both.........but i'm sure the City dweller wouldn't just have a Panamera..in that income bracket/mileau i'm sure a GREEN MACHINE would be there for "social statement" regular clients,commutes and grocery gettin'..the BIG GUN for Social events and the cottage & Hols and the BIG BUCK clients/associates.................nothing wrong with that..........it is indeedy a multifuntional BEAST.......now lets make it FUGLIER with a soft top......

[aquadorhj]

Saw one on the road.  looks very very good.  i would rather get this than Bentley continental.

[safristi]

    of aqua whateffer in his Pan cake amera...

[johngenx]

Maybe things have changed, but when I was an active Porsche enthusiast, not many Porsche owners were interested in a Porsche 4-door sedan.  They loved their high performance 911's, but for their sedans, big S-Class and 7-series wheels were the order of the day.  Big back seats, giant trunks, and luxury was the order of the day.

That said, the novelty of it will probably drive sales.

[The Mighty Duck]

Maybe things have changed, but when I didn't know many Porsche owners that were interested in a Porsche 4-door sedan.  They loved their high performance 911's, but for their sedans, big S-Class and 7-series wheels were the order of the day.  Big back seats, giant trunks, and luxury was the order of the day.

That said, the novelty of it will probably drive sales.

Things have changed. See the Cayanne for proof.

Not that that's a bad thing, imo. The Panamera sounds brilliant... though personally, I think the 7-series or S-class would probably still be my choice were I in this market.

[lebowski]

Maybe things have changed, but when I didn't know many Porsche owners that were interested in a Porsche 4-door sedan.  They loved their high performance 911's, but for their sedans, big S-Class and 7-series wheels were the order of the day.  Big back seats, giant trunks, and luxury was the order of the day.

That said, the novelty of it will probably drive sales.

Things have changed. See the Cayanne for proof.

Not that that's a bad thing, imo. The Panamera sounds brilliant... though personally, I think the 7-series or S-class would probably still be my choice were I in this market.

If I were in the market for a big, fast, agile, and expensive 4-door, i'd be really curious how the non-turbo Panamera might compare to a BMW 750i sport (or Alpina B7) or Audi S8. If the Porsche's performance was on par with that of the other two, then i think the better looks of the BMW or Audi would probably sway me in their direction.

[wing]

One must drive this Porsche to understand, all sensibility is removed once behind the wheel.

The new V6 version may be interesting I wonder how much it will come in at!