Topic: Lexus LF-A (production)

[ovr50]

Part of the problem is that the really good drivers, like inhabit this forum , mostly cannot afford these types of mega-buck cars. The guys that can afford these cars, for the most part, are not really good drivers. Furthermore, it's often the younger guys who "think" they are the best drivers of manual tranny cars; but most younger guys have no money for mega-buck cars.

Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

[rrocket]

Part of the problem is that the really good drivers, like inhabit this forum , mostly cannot afford these types of mega-buck cars. The guys that can afford these cars, for the most part, are not really good drivers. Furthermore, it's often the younger guys who "think" they are the best drivers of manual tranny cars; but most younger guys have no money for mega-buck cars.

Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

Well that's one side of the coin.  But the other side is some manufacturers have decided to heap as much technology into their road cars as the can...either because of a race program, or because of the car being a halo car for the technology their company can offer.  I understand both sides.

[blur911]

Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

We had a Gallardo and a Murcielago at a track event a couple of years ago.  The Murcielago was rapidly burning up his clutch with every takeoff, the tires don't slip so something had to.  He had already replaced it once at a $15k cost. 
When you have lots of traction and a small diameter light clutch, the clutch doesn't stick around long.  BTDT 
Taking this away from the drivers probably makes most of them happier in the long run. 
There are of course some people who believe in learning and using all the skills involved in driving a car and would miss that third pedal.

[TopGun]

.....
Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

Being good at driving a stick has nothing to do with it.  I'm just learning to snowboard...I suck...is it still fun...hell ya!

I'm saying two things:

Firstly, "we" who inhabit this forum   shouldn't celebrate that they are going the way of the dodo.  Why should we care about sales volumes?

Secondly, catering to sales volumes may dilute the brand to the point where they become less desirable.  Once you've done that, you're going to be unable to make cars at such high margin.

[huota]

Part of the problem is that the really good drivers, like inhabit this forum , mostly cannot afford these types of mega-buck cars. The guys that can afford these cars, for the most part, are not really good drivers. Furthermore, it's often the younger guys who "think" they are the best drivers of manual tranny cars; but most younger guys have no money for mega-buck cars.

Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

Well said.  Whether the LF-A or any other super car comes with an auto or manual tranny is highly academical to 99.99% of the people, even on enthusiast forums like this.

[TopGun]

Well said.  Whether the LF-A or any other super car comes with an auto or manual tranny is highly academical to 99.99% of the people, even on enthusiast forums like this.

Fixed it for ya....

[Erik]

.....
Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

Being good at driving a stick has nothing to do with it.  I'm just learning to snowboard...I suck...is it still fun...hell ya!

I'm saying two things:

Firstly, "we" who inhabit this forum   shouldn't celebrate that they are going the way of the dodo.  Why should we care about sales volumes?

Secondly, catering to sales volumes may dilute the brand to the point where they become less desirable.  Once you've done that, you're going to be unable to make cars at such high margin.

Wouldn't it be just as much fun to snowboard if it was equipped with gyros and computers and it took you down the hill all by itself?

What is the point of a Halo car if it isn't a dream car?

[ovr50]

TopGun - "Firstly, "we" who inhabit this forum   shouldn't celebrate that they are going the way of the dodo.  Why should we care about sales volumes?

Secondly, catering to sales volumes may dilute the brand to the point where they become less desirable.  Once you've done that, you're going to be unable to make cars at such high margin."

As to your "firstly", we care about sales volumes because without enough volume to be profitable, the makers will not/cannot make the cars that enthusiasts want. Enthusiasts are a small minority of car buyers.

"Secondly" - some truth there, but if maker has volume, high margins may not be required. But, this type of maker is likely more of a mass market maker (eg Toyota), than an enthusiast maker, (eg. Ferrari). So, it likely doesn't matter to the enthusiast if Toyota has diluted the brand or not. They were interested in the beginning.

[TopGun]

As to your "firstly", we care about sales volumes because without enough volume to be profitable, the makers will not/cannot make the cars that enthusiasts want. Enthusiasts are a small minority of car buyers.
.....

Well that's kinda obvious isn't Ovr?  The volume argument appears to a shield that more and more people hide behind to justify the movement.

When we talk about an outfit like Ferrari going this way, I just shake my head.

[Mitlov]

Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

People who love to drive are a minority, no doubt.  But I think when it comes to internet discussions, it comes down to this: should someone in a minority resign themselves to "majority rules" and espouse what's best for the majority, or should they be even more vigorous in demanding what they themselves want, because nobody else is going to speak for them?

I realize that most people are happiest in a Camry or Pilot that they never have to think about at all.  But they can speak for themselves.  When I have a long day at work and get on an internet forum, I'm going to speak out for what I want, not what everyone on my block besides me wants.

[Triple Bob]

Thus, does a maker cater to just a few really good drivers that can afford the car; or does it make the car easier to drive so that more drivers can handle it?
From a financial survival POV, obviously it needs sales volume, thus manual trannies may go the way of the dodo bird.

Tough, but that's the way it is.

We had a Gallardo and a Murcielago at a track event a couple of years ago.  The Murcielago was rapidly burning up his clutch with every takeoff, the tires don't slip so something had to.  He had already replaced it once at a $15k cost. 
When you have lots of traction and a small diameter light clutch, the clutch doesn't stick around long.  BTDT 
Taking this away from the drivers probably makes most of them happier in the long run. 
There are of course some people who believe in learning and using all the skills involved in driving a car and would miss that third pedal.

Lambo's are notoriously bad on clutches though, just due to the power and the 4WD system.  Those very wide tires mean tons of grip so the clutch is the only thing that CAN give.  Lambo's have to have a rolling start.

I remember a post on pistonheads years ago, a guy had just picked up a used Diablo, his dream car.  Let his girlfriend drive it once, she hesitated turning right at an uphill T-junction, balanced it on the clutch instead of using the handbrake. Smoke everywhere and big bill to fix...

[TopGun]

.....
I realize that most people are happiest in a Camry or Pilot that they never have to think about at all.  But they can speak for themselves.  When I have a long day at work and get on an internet forum, I'm going to speak out for what I want, not what everyone on my block besides me wants.

Stated much more eloquently than I did Mitlov....it addresses what drives me crazy about the stuff I read on here.

When I go to the Cessna 150 forum, I don't see people being OK with closing down the little airports because there just aren't many pilots, or people being OK with adding to the existing restricted airspace despite the fact that 99.99% of the people don't fly and thus don't care.

[rrocket]

Nice review from Inside Line http://www.insideline.com/features/on-the-road-with-the-2011-lexus-lfa.html

[No H2O]

At $150K it would be killer. At $375k It really doesn't make sense.

For that kind of money, I'd buy a Maranello, a car that looks great now and in 50 years.

[Mitlov]

EVO's video review.  They have some of the best serious reviews on the planet.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/19/video-evo-takes-lexus-lfa-on-public-roads-gets-jiggy-wi/

Shame about the lack of steering feel, but that noise 

[rrocket]

At $150K it would be killer. At $375k It really doesn't make sense.

For that kind of money, I'd buy a Maranello, a car that looks great now and in 50 years.

A friend had one (a friend of the guy who lived with me that had the Porsche Gemballa 550) and the Maranello was ALWAYS broken.  Always.  The one year he had it, he drove fewer than 500kms because something always broke on it.  Beautiful car...but seemed to be a POS.

[No H2O]

At $150K it would be killer. At $375k It really doesn't make sense.

For that kind of money, I'd buy a Maranello, a car that looks great now and in 50 years.

A friend had one (a friend of the guy who lived with me that had the Porsche Gemballa 550) and the Maranello was ALWAYS broken.  Always.  The one year he had it, he drove fewer than 500kms because something always broke on it.  Beautiful car...but seemed to be a POS.

Yes I know, but they like an MV Agusta, are three dimensional art. And that music from the exhaust.

I was looking at Ferraris while I was shopping for my 993, but I remembered something my ex girlfriend's brother who is Italian, lives in Italy and works in the auto industry told me. Ferraris are nice to look at, but if you want a reliable performance car, but a Porsche.

[Triple Bob]

At $150K it would be killer. At $375k It really doesn't make sense.

For that kind of money, I'd buy a Maranello, a car that looks great now and in 50 years.

A friend had one (a friend of the guy who lived with me that had the Porsche Gemballa 550) and the Maranello was ALWAYS broken.  Always.  The one year he had it, he drove fewer than 500kms because something always broke on it.  Beautiful car...but seemed to be a POS.

Yes I know, but they like an MV Agusta, are three dimensional art. And that music from the exhaust.

I was looking at Ferraris while I was shopping for my 993, but I remembered something my ex girlfriend's brother who is Italian, lives in Italy and works in the auto industry told me. Ferraris are nice to look at, but if you want a reliable performance car, but a Porsche.

If you want a reliable car, buy a Honda.

If you want a passionate car, buy a Ferrari.

If you want a reliable performance car in your later years, buy a menoporsche. 

I have no idea why people rag on Ferrari's so much on this forum.  I have also known a few owners, and with the right maintenance (albeit in the performance car price range) they have run just fine.  I know of two people who have had Porsche engines let go on them, both with very significant bills.

I don't know why Europeans seem to put up with Italian cars more than North Americans do.

[vdk]

At $150K it would be killer. At $375k It really doesn't make sense.

For that kind of money, I'd buy a Maranello, a car that looks great now and in 50 years.

A friend had one (a friend of the guy who lived with me that had the Porsche Gemballa 550) and the Maranello was ALWAYS broken.  Always.  The one year he had it, he drove fewer than 500kms because something always broke on it.  Beautiful car...but seemed to be a POS.

Yes I know, but they like an MV Agusta, are three dimensional art. And that music from the exhaust.

I was looking at Ferraris while I was shopping for my 993, but I remembered something my ex girlfriend's brother who is Italian, lives in Italy and works in the auto industry told me. Ferraris are nice to look at, but if you want a reliable performance car, but a Porsche.

If you want a reliable car, buy a Honda.

If you want a passionate car, buy a Ferrari.

If you want a reliable performance car in your later years, buy a menoporsche. 

I have no idea why people rag on Ferrari's so much on this forum.  I have also known a few owners, and with the right maintenance (albeit in the performance car price range) they have run just fine.  I know of two people who have had Porsche engines let go on them, both with very significant bills.

I don't know why Europeans seem to put up with Italian cars more than North Americans do.

VS





There are more places in Euroland to have some fun than in NA. Like you said in another thread, drive 30 minutes out of London (UK) and you're on a nice country road alone. Drive 30 minutes out of Toronto and you're in Markham.

[aquadorhj]

I don't know why Europeans seem to put up with Italian cars more than North Americans do.

I seem to find from watching british car programs that europeans are very image conscious , and is almost like badge-whore the way they knock on cheap brands.

I may be wrong.  but since a Ferrari is a Ferrari, some people may "put-up" with it, but for me, a Ferrari is just an Italian car/art that I don't have to appreciate.  

don't get me wrong, I like ferrari.  I still think 355 is the best looking/sounding Ferrari of all time, but I would just as soon be happy with Lexus LF-A(if I had one custom made with manual, that would be even better. )