Topic: CTC Review: 2010 Kia Forte Koup

[wing]

Lots of cars require gas before starting, I think the real issue is the touchy throttle which makes it very difficult to get a small amount of revs going, it either shoots up or nothing.  Heck on the S2000 you have to rev to 3000 just to move

[safristi]

..Hey it's a KOUP...maybe the manual needs a better CRUTCH..........try Hearing & Froing...........................

[conwelpic]

Wing - was the Koup supplied by KIA Canada? 

Does the manufacturer follow your reviews and want to know anything you find (this would apply to all the various vehicles that you test) so that they could possibly correct any negative comments, or are some manufacturers more tentative than others?  Is your daily comments fed directly back to the manufacturer? Just wondering if you get feedback from them later?  It would be nice to know if there is some good coming out of these reviews where a manufacturer pays attention to its "customers".

I don't know if it happens, but I think all manufacturers should have someone following all the various forums and blogs on their products and reporting back to people that could do some good to correct any negative feedback and also to take note the praises too!  It all helps to improve the product for the future.

[wing]

Typically yes they read and they respond.  I have gotten e-mails for various things before.

[Minou]

Wing,

Try it with the Koup, it has the same engine as my Sonata so engine management is probably similar.  Bring the engine to full operating temp. and just let go ot the clutch pedal slowly.  The rpm will fall below a set point before the car starts to move and no matter what you do, the engine dies.

OTOH, I've recently read some place I don't rememeber that installing a ground between the chassis and throttle body could alleviate this behavior and improve throttle response because of a weak ground between the throttle body and plastic intake manifold.

[Jaeger]

Man, how do you get a manual transmission THIS wrong in this day and age.  A very disappointing aspect of an otherwise very appealing product.

Jaeger

[EV Dan]

For my next car I will try to avoid a slush box and get something with a DSG. Besides Germans, any other makes have them now in NA?

In case of Kia it might take as little as reflashing firmware to change the throttle response, if there is no mechanical link, that is.

[carsncars]

Man, how do you get a manual transmission THIS wrong in this day and age.  A very disappointing aspect of an otherwise very appealing product.

Jaeger

Quite easily. The manual gearbox itself is probably just fine--the problem is there's been a lack of tuning in shoehorning the transmission into the car. They probably haven't spent much time tuning clutch take up, throttle tip in, etc. for this particular model. Not surprising--with many more buyers choosing the automatic transmission, fewer R&D dollars and fewer engineering hours go towards the manual transmission.

I'm excited to see how this review comes along as well. I actually had a Kia Rio5 as a rental last week, and while it was coarse and unrefined, I'd take it over the Yaris any day--for under $10K, it's a decent little car. I guess you could say I was impressed, in a "wow-I'm-not-totally-disgusted-by-this" way. I could live with that car, and for $10K with a 5 year warranty it's tempting compared to used cars. Most reviews have said the Forte and Soul are leaps and bounds ahead... if so, my next purchase might be a Kia.

[Spheric]

Do Kia and Hyundai share the same transmission components ? I recently test drove a manual stick Elantra Touring and it provided a really good shifting experience - almost felt I was back in Euro-land....

[toolatecrew]

I'd say this is a major boo boo on Kia's part and here is why:

The volume seller is not going to be a manual transmission SX top of the line model. Its going to be a lower line coupe with an Automatic transmission for the people who want to look good and have lots of features. BUT car mags tend to test the top of the line vehicles. If its sporty they tend to test the manual (even if its a small % of total sales).

Bad reviews of the SX manual will trickle down to EX Auto sales even though the two cars are not the same drivetrain.

It boggles my mind that car companies can let something like this out the door. Mazda did it with the Speed 6 manaual combo (which was the only choice). If you test the car before you release it cerainly this problem would be identified.  Sound like an issue with the drive by wire throttle and that should be a simple code fix to reflash the computer to smooth that part out. Something that should have been done before you put the car out on the market. Nothing kills an itintal test drive more than stalling all over the place. Not a good first impression.

[BernardP]

I am the owner of a 2010 Forte SX sedan with 6 speed manual. I can vouch that there is no problem with the clutch: it is smooth and progressive enough. The problem is the very abrupt throttle tip-in: Just a little bit of pressure induces a very strong response. Because of this, it's hard to modulate the clutch when new to the car. Two things:

--- after one month, I had "programmed" my right foot and was used to it
--- my dealer tells me Kia is going to fix the throttle response soon with an ECU software update.

[Breeze-E]

Maybe Hyundai/Kia should issue a TSB for a software reprogramming for those cars...

Maybe they will...since I heard it was an issue on the Genesis and has now been fixed (supposedly).  I also remember Honda having the "RPM hanging" issue between gears which also made for some clunky shifts...

I have a 2007 Civic with a manual transmission and I can vouch for the clunky shifts.  After more than two years I still get them regularily.  I have driven manuals transmissions before, as well, and this is the most difficult to get regular smooth shifts.  Makes me look like a rookie all the time.

[Dante]

For my next car I will try to avoid a slush box and get something with a DSG. Besides Germans, any other makes have them now in NA?

Mitsu on the Lancer Ralliart and Evo and maybe more models in the future. Probably Ford on the new Fiesta, Focus and other new models.

[dougjp]

I think its generally a Hyundai/Kia shortcoming, things they get wrong on a number of their offerings.

My friend bought a V6 Genesis Coupe at the end of August. After test driving the manual in both the 4 and 6 cylinder, he rejected the combination of clutch, notchy shifter and too sensitive throttle tip in, and (unusual for him) bought the automatic version. I've driven these too and found the clutch takeup was short and not linear, plus on the heavy side. Not as heavy as, for example, an Infinity G35, more like the clutch problem the MazdaSpeed6 has where the change in linear action happens at the worst point, clutch engagement. 

On the other hand, we both found the programming for the automatic to be exceptional and much different than, for example, the Sonata which can perhaps be described as "lazy". The sensitive throttle tip in is somewhat muted to the point of being acceptable by the automatic, although it can still come into play at the worst times. Another friend has a Santa Fe and complains about the sensitive throttle tip in.   

[Rupert]

I like a manual shift car but find that there is too much gear changing to be done on the 401 around Toronto. Wears one's left leg out before one used to get to work. Before this gets to be a forum on Hyundai/Kia quality overall, I will say that the almost three year old Accent automatic, that I drive, has no problems so far with the engine and auto. After 50,000 km it still seems like new to me and starts and purs like a kitten whenever asked to do so.
It's unfortunate that the test vehicle has this problem, but it sounds like it is being adressed. Great looking car by the way. If the handling and go are close to the Mazda 3, I think that it has the looks to do well. Maybe they should offer an automatic version for testing right away and go back to this one later.

[Ontariodriver]

Ford are the only ones IMO that can make a decent gearbox and clutch set up.

Moving on.....

How  are the plastics. I sat in Forte I thought that was the only let down was the massive sea of black plastics and closing the doors felt a bit cheap. From the outside it does look very impressive in seams to stand out as something new.  I have also read that its vague in the corners at speed. I also can't get by the fact it looks like a Honda Civic. Almost like it's Twin.

[rrocket]

Ford are the only ones IMO that can make a decent gearbox and clutch set up.

 


Oh....my sides hurt....

[Sival]

It is too bad because it has that rare, for a 4cyl manual, tall top gear for quiet low RPM highway cruising (and better highway MPG) that I am looking for.

Most 4cyl MTs seem to be geared as if we don't know how to downshift on the highway.  The Honda fit MT is near 4000RPM (YIKES) at 120km/h.

Anyway I hope the straighten this out by the time the Hatchback arrives, sounds like a nice drivetrain/car otherwise. Do you give direct feedback when you review cars?

The Honda Fit actually spins at around 3550 RPMs at 120 Km/h (random factoid: do you know you can calculate engine RPM vs speed if you have the transmission ratio, the final drive ratio and the tire size PXXX/YY RZZ? hours of fun).

It's true that they make the engines spin higher in manual cars so as not to leave drivers without any kind of power without downshifting. I understand that one would like a higher cruising gear, but I think if they experienced a 1.5L naturally-aspirated engine turning at below 3000 RPMs at 100 Km/h, they might just change their tune.

[Snowdog]

I used to own a 1990 Mazda 323 with a tall 5th gear and I loved it. Quiet cruising and excellent mpg on the highway.

Completely gutless in top bear, but downshifting for hills/passing doesn't bother me at all.  Droning high RPM engines do.

Anyway with hopefully sorted throttle response and a hatchback version on the way, the Forte is near the top of my list.

[Greg B.]

I understand that one would like a higher cruising gear, but I think if they experienced a 1.5L naturally-aspirated engine turning at below 3000 RPMs at 100 Km/h, they might just change their tune.

True enough. My '85 MR2 would turn about 2750 at 100km/h in top gear, and it was exactly at that point where it made a very irritating drone. The solution, of course, was to speed up to 120.