Author Topic: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional  (Read 20051 times)

Offline quadzilla

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Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« on: September 09, 2009, 06:42:40 am »
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AM640 News has learned a judge from the Ontario Court of Justice has deemed the new stunt racing law to be unconstitutional. The law says drivers driving 50km/h over the speed limit can be charged with stunt driving.

I heard about this on the news this morning and couldn't find much more about it (yet). Anybody else hearing anything?

Offline overtakeyouintheleftlane

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 06:58:27 am »
I do believe in having your day in court and innocent until proven guilty (when it's regarding me, not others :rofl2:)

I believe they should keep that law. That would scare the hell out a lot of people from speeding.

However, if you are doing 50+ km/hr, that is very dangerous, hell, even 30-40ish over is dangerous. People don't have the skill to drive that fast, let alone other people on the 401 with very poor lane discipline...

I don't think they should change the law regarding stunt driving, you speed like that and endanger others, you don't deserve to drive. Remember, driving is not a right.

Nice to see they enforce it on cops as well...
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 07:01:22 am by overtakeyouintheleftlane »

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 07:11:29 am »
You do realize this law is not only about driving 50kph over right. I have heard some crazy stories about people getting charged by this law and most of them weren't from speeding either.

---------------------

What is Stunt Driving and/or Race a Motor Vehicle and/or Excessive Speeding?

Driving a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest is defined as;

• Driving two or more motor vehicles at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed and in a manner that indicates the drivers of the motor vehicles are engaged in a competition.

• Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle.

• Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

i. Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed,

ii. Outdistancing or attempting to outdistance one or more other motor vehicles while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, or

iii. Repeatedly changing lanes in close proximity to other vehicles so as to advance through the ordinary flow of traffic while driving at a rate of speed
that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed.

Whereas Stunt Driving includes any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:

• Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to lift some or all of its tires from the surface of the highway, including driving a motorcycle with only one wheel in contact with the ground, but not including the use of lift axles on commercial motor vehicles.

• Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.

• Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to spin it or cause it to circle, without maintaining control over it.

• Driving two or more motor vehicles side by side or in proximity to each other, where one of the motor vehicles occupies a lane of traffic or other portion of the highway intended for use by oncoming traffic for a period of time that is longer than is reasonably required to pass another motor vehicle.

• Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.

• Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.

• Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit.

• Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

i. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,

ii. Stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,

iii. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or
iv. making a left turn where,

(A) the driver is stopped at an intersection controlled by a traffic control signal system in response to a circular red indication;

(B) at least one vehicle facing the opposite direction is similarly stopped in response to a circular red indication; and

(C) the driver executes the left turn immediately before or after the system shows only a circular green indication in both directions and in a manner that indicates an intention to complete or attempt to complete the left turn before the vehicle facing the opposite direction is able to proceed straight through the intersection in response to the circular green indication facing that vehicle..

Offline overtakeyouintheleftlane

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 07:25:21 am »
I know it's not just about speeding, it's about your behaviour on the road. If the police determine you are not driving "normally", I guess you'll be SOL.

More info on Stunt driving law

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/57533--street-racing-law-ruled-unconstitutional-opp-will-continue-to-lay-charges

The minimum fine is $2,000 while the maximum is $10,000 after a conviction, the highest penalty in Canada .
Police can issue an immediate seven-day driver's licence suspension and seven-day vehicle impoundment for street racing, participating in a driving contest or stunt driving. 
Courts can impose a driver licence suspension of up to 10 years for a second conviction, if the second conviction occurs within 10 years of the first.  For a first conviction, the maximum licence suspension period remains at 2 years.
The definition of a "driving stunt" includes driving a motor vehicle at 50 km/h or more above the posted speed limit.
The Act also bans driving a motor vehicle on a highway with a connected nitrous oxide system.  Some street racers use nitrous oxide to enhance the acceleration capabilities of their vehicles.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 07:34:46 am by overtakeyouintheleftlane »

Offline tortoise

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 07:44:58 am »
Interesting commentary from a guy named overtakeyouintheleftlane.

Only the slow and dim know where they're going in life, and seldom is it worth the trip. - Tom Robbins.

Offline overtakeyouintheleftlane

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 08:03:38 am »
tortoise - Yup, overtaking in the left lane is the correct way to overtake a slow driver ie. driving under the speed limit in good weather conditions.

Offline Frontier1

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 08:40:22 am »
Interesting commentary from a guy named overtakeyouintheleftlane.



better than overtakeyouintherightlane ;)

Offline wing

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 08:50:42 am »
I think the law is unconstitutional, cops now have the power to seize your vehicle and strand you on the side of the road if they don't like your attitude, and it is your word against theirs.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 09:00:07 am »
Agreed. And if you end up in court and win you're still out the towing, impound and lawyers fees.


Offline blur911

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 10:23:20 am »

However, if you are doing 50+ km/hr, that is very dangerous, hell, even 30-40ish over is dangerous. People don't have the skill to drive that fast, let alone other people on the 401 with very poor lane discipline...


The "normal" speed people drive is about 20-30kmph over the limit, so 50 over is actually only 20 or 30 faster than the flow of traffic.  The 401 was designed for 1950's cars going 130kmph.  How is it very dangerous to do so now?   
Cars are much better, if drivers have gotten that much worse I think the problem is with allowing people who can't drive to get and keep their licenses.  Get them off the road and maybe we can all get along.
I get pissed off when we lower the limits to meet the lowest common denominator of peoples skills.
Mr Pickypants

Offline wing

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 10:26:34 am »
I was listening to a podcast with Jay Leno last week.  He was talking about when he was a kid / younger and cars would get up to 60-70mph and they would shake and be crazy loud inside and felt like they were going to fall apart.  But today's cars you can go 100mph+ and never get this feeling -- he was implying the speed limits should be raised.

Jay for president!

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2009, 10:43:12 am »
I don't have a problem with clearly defined laws like 50 KPH over the limit.

But all this other stuff? Any law that contains the phrase "Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to " needs to be snuffed. How the heck do they know the INTENTION of a driver? What it si thsi Minority Report?

If you pull a wheelie on your bike yeah get a ticket but if you rev your bike and the cops think you INTEND to do a wheelie but you have not actually done anything yet? BS

You can't go around aresting people for what you percive their possible intent to be. If you accelerate rapidly up to 100 KPH but then let off is your intent to exceed the speed limit?

This one is a real hoot
Quote
ii. Stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,

So next time some idiot is tailgating me and I tap my brakes to try to force him to back off and leave some space I'm guilty of Stunt driving. My sole intention would be to get him to slow down where the other driver clearly has no intention of slowing down?

Offline sailor723

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2009, 10:43:57 am »
I think the law is unconstitutional, cops now have the power to seize your vehicle and strand you on the side of the road if they don't like your attitude, and it is your word against theirs.

Exactly....police are police.... NOT judges. You should suffer no penalty (vehicle seized license suspended etc) until you are found guilty.
Old Jag convertible...one itch I won't have to scratch again.

Offline wing

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 10:47:32 am »
toolate, some old lady yesterday was all over the road, in the other lane, swerving braking (I thought she was drunk!) but she was just lost, she was clearly impeding my progress I should have called 9-1-1 and had her arrested for stunting!

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2009, 10:51:59 am »
I get pissed off when we lower the limits to meet the lowest common denominator of peoples skills.

 :thumbup:

I don't have a problem with clearly defined laws like 50 KPH over the limit.

But all this other stuff? Any law that contains the phrase "Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to " needs to be snuffed. How the heck do they know the INTENTION of a driver? What it si thsi Minority Report?

That is my biggest pet peeve. I love to accelerate fast when merging onto the hwy but this can be deemed as stunting. Actually people have been charged for stunting by doing this. Where they speeding, no, just accelerating quickly to merge. Personally I think they should charge all those that DON'T accelerate quickly to merge.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2009, 11:47:00 am »
Most of the cases I have seen reported are for guys going not only more than 50 over, but waaaay more than 50 over.  Wasn't there some dude who got nabbed doing like 250 in a G35? On the 427? At night?  In the winter? On freakin' snow tires!

I'm not too worried about potential abuse of an officer's discretion in cases like these.  Guys who view public roads as their personal test track can't be taken off the road fast enough for my liking.  What about my constitutional rights not to have my wife and child killed by lunatics like that?

Jaeger
Wokeism is nothing more than the recognition and opposition of bigotry in all its forms.  Bigots are predictably triggered.

Offline DockMan

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2009, 11:50:47 am »
What about my constitutional rights not to have my wife and child killed by lunatics like that?

Unfortunately the only thing we have a constitutional right to is Peace, Order and Good Government. Lunatics are not specifically mentioned.
Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all. - John W. Gardner

Offline blur911

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2009, 11:59:57 am »
Most of the cases I have seen reported are for guys going not only more than 50 over, but waaaay more than 50 over.  Wasn't there some dude who got nabbed doing like 250 in a G35? On the 427? At night?  In the winter? On freakin' snow tires!

Jaeger

Yeah, for some reason the media don't report all the 51kph over the limit charges, or the ones for people showing the intent to spin a tire.  They tend to focus on the the 250kph on the DVP, I have no idea why they would do that. ::)

BTW, that guy was drunk,  there was already a law against that.

vdk

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2009, 12:12:57 pm »
Most of the cases I have seen reported are for guys going not only more than 50 over, but waaaay more than 50 over.  Wasn't there some dude who got nabbed doing like 250 in a G35? On the 427? At night?  In the winter? On freakin' snow tires!

Jaeger

Yeah, for some reason the media don't report all the 51kph over the limit charges, or the ones for people showing the intent to spin a tire.  They tend to focus on the the 250kph on the DVP, I have no idea why they would do that. ::)

BTW, that guy was drunk,  there was already a law against that.

x2

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Stunt driving law deemed Unconstitutional
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2009, 12:17:35 pm »
What about my constitutional rights not to have my wife and child killed by lunatics like that?

Unfortunately the only thing we have a constitutional right to is Peace, Order and Good Government. Lunatics are not specifically mentioned.

Indeed.  Having a lunatic blasting along a public road an night doing 250 interferes with my peaceful and lawful use of that same road.  And I would expect a good government to do something about it.  They have.

Jaeger