Author Topic: Interested in Photography...with pictures!  (Read 9259 times)

Offline 2JDM

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Interested in Photography...with pictures!
« on: June 13, 2009, 05:43:20 pm »
I am starting to get interested in photography. I know some people that are into it, and I think its very interesting.

I started to look at cameras, but I have NO IDEA what the specs mean.  Entry level DSLRs...There is a Canon I am interested in, and a Nikon:

CANON REBEL XS W/18-55 IS LENS

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&departmentId=10404&categoryId=10429&itemID=243199

Nikon D60
http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&departmentId=10404&categoryId=10429&itemID=234003

Can anyone give me any pointers for an amateur like me? The Nikon D60 doesn't have Live View, how important is that?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 01:12:24 am by 2hondas »

Offline dr_spock

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2009, 06:18:29 pm »
Dpreview DSLR buying guide:

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Guides/dslr_buying_guide_01.htm

From your choices, personally I like the XS over the D60.  Swing by your local Henry's and try them out. 

vdk

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2009, 06:18:37 pm »
I have a D60. All I have to say is that you WILL spend another $500 on a lens in a couple of months...
It's a good camera, I don't think I'll ever use its full potential. Live View is overrated, I really don't care for it.

vdk

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2009, 06:42:13 pm »
Photos:












Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2009, 08:28:43 pm »
I've got a D40, and generally like Nikon products over Canon.  So I suggest the D60 - or the D40.  I like it for its smaller size, though to be fair the D60 comes close.  The D60 comes with more features and a better lens.

The most important specs are those of the lens, and those are the same on both cameras.

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2009, 08:57:08 pm »
I am starting to get interested in photography. I know some people that are into it, and I think its very interesting.

I started to look at cameras, but I have NO IDEA what the specs mean.  Entry level DSLRs...There is a Canon I am interested in, and a Nikon:

CANON REBEL XS W/18-55 IS LENS

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&departmentId=10404&categoryId=10429&itemID=243199

Nikon D60
http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&departmentId=10404&categoryId=10429&itemID=234003

Can anyone give me any pointers for an amateur like me? The Nikon D60 doesn't have Live View, how important is that?


OK my buying guide.

1. Brand doesn't matter.  Both cameras will be able to do far more than you will need, so it doesn't matter which one you go for.  At the end of the day Nikon and Canon are as good as each other, just the menus and ergonomics are different.  Whatever you start with you will most probably continue on with as when you start buying lenses you won't want to get rid of a load just to switch brands.  I started with Nikon so I'm staying with them, the noise handling is amazing and the ergonomics is just perfect for me.  I'm sure Canon has it's plus points too, also don't dismiss Sony, Pentax and Olympus, they all make fine DSLR's as far as I know.

2. Buy yourself a good book, I have tried a few and the best one I found for someone who doesn't know their aperture from their arse is this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Digital-Photography-Chris-George/dp/1904705855

Scott Kelby's books are also supposed to be very good.  I found that some books were far too basic and some concentrated more on editing than the actual art of taking the shot/composition etc, Chris George's strikes the perfect balance as you do need to know how to edit too, you become your own darkroom.

3. You don't need another lens straight away, kit lenses are very good these days.  So don't budget for another lens yet, try photography with the kit lens and if you stay with the hobby start saving!  :rofl2:  The VR lens that comes with the D60 is pretty good.

4. I have Live View, have never used it, don't know when I would need it.

5. Go out and take as many shots as possible, then figure out why the ones that didn't come out as you had planned came out like they did.  I can't stress this enough, you have to keep shooting to get better. (See the bottom of this post: http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,62557.msg581912.html#msg581912   :rofl2: ) If you just want better family/holiday snapshots then a good compact will probably be better.

Remember the best camera in the world can still take crap pictures, I know someone who bought a D60 and their shots are awful, but only 'cos they have no idea how to use it off it's auto setting...  But if you learn how to use it the D60 is an awesome camera, to prove a point here is a shot that came 3rd out of over 1000 photos (including many pro's with the most expensive cameras money can buy) on DPChallenge.



http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=771926

To show you the thought process, here (I think) is how he took the shot:

The guy wanted a long exposure to smooth the water and clouds, which called for a Neutral Density filter that blocks the amount of light getting in so you have to use a very slow shutter speed, 2 minutes in this case. The filter just fits in front of the lens.

He used a cheapy Sigma wide angle lens (which is the same one I've got) that gives a nice wide view for landscapes, better than the kit lens.  I say cheapy, it's still probably $700-$800.  :rofl2:

A horizon right in the middle of a shot usually makes it very boring, but he used it here because of the reflection which makes the most of a centered horizon (see my shot below).

ISO 100 for picture quality and less noise (also helps with the long exposure as higher ISO means less light is needed)

Aperture of f/16 which will give a very good Depth Of Field, i.e. everthing from foreground to things in the distance are in focus.  Many people think you have to go up to f/22 to get good DOF on landscape shots, this is incorrect as on most lenses the smaller the aperture the more diffraction creeps in, so even though the DOF is theoretically greater, blurriness is introduced by light diffraction.  Anyway, enough on that, don't want to scare you off with the technicals.  :P

The foreground detail adds interest, and the leading lines of the jetty pull you into and around the shot, just perfect imho.


My shot (although not as good), similar concept:



Lesser camera (D40), same lens, same centered horizon, same sky reflection. So it doesn't always have to be rule of thirds.

Hope this helps, anything else just ask.  :)


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Offline Schmengie

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2009, 09:19:25 pm »
Live View is overrated, I really don't care for it.

  :iagree:  Live view in a DSLR usually means something else has been compromised like a dimmer/smaller optical viewfinder or balky auto-focus in live view mode. All the live view DSLRs that I've tried so far, including the brand-new Sony DSLR-A330 seem to have two problems in common - the LCD is always a split-second behind what's actually happening in front of the camera and it either blacks-out or freezes between shots. That might not be a problem for most people, but it can mean a missed shot when things are happening quickly.   

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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2009, 09:28:31 pm »

Remember the best camera in the world can still take crap pictures, I know someone who bought a D60 and their shots are awful, but only 'cos they have no idea how to use it off it's auto setting... 

:iagree:  My camera always wants to shoot with the flash on in low light, and it takes terrible pictures.  Once I learned how to use it in manual and adjust aperture and shutter speed to compensate for the lack of light, I started getting much, much better results.  You'll be surprised how little light you really need for a good photo once you stop relying on a flash. :)

Offline dr_spock

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2009, 09:41:02 pm »
Live View may be handy for macro photography or shooting from weird angles-like below or above your eye level.  It is nice when you have lots of time to compose the shot.   For action photography you'd probably want to use the optical viewfinder.   


Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2009, 09:58:09 pm »
Live View may be handy for macro photography or shooting from weird angles-like below or above your eye level.  It is nice when you have lots of time to compose the shot.   For action photography you'd probably want to use the optical viewfinder.   


I dunno, my new tripod can get pretty low!



 :rofl2:

Offline 2JDM

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2009, 01:45:48 am »
Wow, thanks for the help everyone.

I was on Digital Photography Review...and another thing came to me. Weight. It seems the Nikon and Canon are less heavy than the others.

About the live view: my friend has the older version of the Canon, and hers doesn't have live view. I found it very awkward without it...it seemed like something was missing. She says she never uses it, like many of you have said.  :-\

It seems like the D40 is a good buy, AMAZING photos with the right lens :)...but isn't it an old model? Will there be a newer model replacing it soon?



EDIT: Main priorities are weight, image stabilization (kit lens or body), live view. D40 is out. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 01:51:53 am by 2hondas »

Offline Ice

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2009, 01:50:09 am »
There will ALWAYS be a new model replacing the old one soon.  If the new features are important enough for you to get...then wait...but otherwise just go for it.  I have a Canon G7 which is an almost SLR but in a compact shell which a few years ago was top of the line in its class....now succeeded by the G9 and G10 which add some features but really aren't THAT much better to make me want those.

Offline 2JDM

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2009, 01:52:32 am »
There will ALWAYS be a new model replacing the old one soon.  If the new features are important enough for you to get...then wait...but otherwise just go for it.  I have a Canon G7 which is an almost SLR but in a compact shell which a few years ago was top of the line in its class....now succeeded by the G9 and G10 which add some features but really aren't THAT much better to make me want those.

I don't particularly care, but I would love to snatch a model up before its expiry date...better deals to be had?

vdk

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2009, 02:28:38 am »
I got the D60 about a year ago. I think there's a newer model out there if that's what you're looking for. That being said, the D40 or D60 will never reach full potential in the hands of the average user (mine).

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2009, 03:16:33 am »
I think you'll find yourself not using live view.  If you're expecting the same sort of experience as a point and shoot or a super-zoom, an SLR simply cannot deliver it.  The design of the lens and the mirrors means that the mirror needs to flip up and out of the way in order to display the live view, and that introduces a delay between pressing the shutter button and the picture being taken.

I suppose it might be handy if you're on a tripod and shooting a controlled scene.  But handheld and trying to simply capture the moment?  Forget about it.

That said, I've always preferred to use the viewfinder on any camera I've had, digital or otherwise.

The D40 (or a Canon Rebel) is the obvious choice in weight and portability.  The D60 is fairly small, too, and has that nicer VR lens and some other nice additions.  One thing to keep in mind with these lower-end Nikons is that a lot of the Nikkor lenses do not support autofocus - in order to keep costs down, the focus motor is on the lens, not the body, so only lenses with a motor will autofocus.  Any Nikkor lens will mount and do autofocus, though.  I'm not sure if Canon and others do the lens thing or not, might be worth looking into.

MOnk

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2009, 03:43:39 am »
3. You don't need another lens straight away, kit lenses are very good these days.  So don't budget for another lens yet, try photography with the kit lens and if you stay with the hobby start saving!  :rofl2:  The VR lens that comes with the D60 is pretty good.

Canon 18-55mm kit lens has very limited usage, in my opinion it's better to by only camera body because when you will get another lens, you probably will never use kit 18-55mm lens again :)

Offline huota

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2009, 03:51:46 am »
You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon. Both make good camera bodies, and more importantly, they both have a range of good lenses available (both new and second hand).

As for live view, it is mostly implemented for two purposes. First, to make people who upgrade from P&S digicameras to feel more at home and less intimated by the dslr design, and ultimately sell more cameras. Secondly, live view can be useful in macro photography.

As already said by others, it is far, far more important to understand the basics of photography (exposure, composition), take pictures and to study pictures taken by others to practise your photographer's "eye". That is the key to good photography.
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Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2009, 08:00:49 am »
Wow, thanks for the help everyone.

I was on Digital Photography Review...and another thing came to me. Weight. It seems the Nikon and Canon are less heavy than the others.

About the live view: my friend has the older version of the Canon, and hers doesn't have live view. I found it very awkward without it...it seemed like something was missing. She says she never uses it, like many of you have said.  :-\

It seems like the D40 is a good buy, AMAZING photos with the right lens :)...but isn't it an old model? Will there be a newer model replacing it soon?



EDIT: Main priorities are weight, image stabilization (kit lens or body), live view. D40 is out. 

Both the D40 and D60 are very light, they only become heavier when you add heavy lenses.  The D60 is a current model and won't be out of the shops soon.  If it were my choice now I'd get the D60, all you need features wise and the sensor is also very good. Bit more cash and the D5000 is even better, but then something bigger and better is always round the corner, you have start somewhere.

I don't understand the need for live view?  If you can't get used to looking through a viewfinder then maybe a DSLR isn't for you? As relying on live view will certainly limit you.

Offline MKII

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2009, 08:51:45 am »
I am starting to get interested in photography. I know some people that are into it, and I think its very interesting.

I started to look at cameras, but I have NO IDEA what the specs mean.  Entry level DSLRs...There is a Canon I am interested in, and a Nikon:

CANON REBEL XS W/18-55 IS LENS

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&departmentId=10404&categoryId=10429&itemID=243199

Nikon D60
http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&departmentId=10404&categoryId=10429&itemID=234003

Can anyone give me any pointers for an amateur like me? The Nikon D60 doesn't have Live View, how important is that?


I know nothing about photography, but when my wife was shopping and her choices were Nikon D90 and Canon 40D. She asked for my opinion and as mention not knowing tech and feature differences I picked the Nikon just because of how it felt in my hands, comfort level would be an important factor to me. Seems to me that most cameras in this $ range all seem equally good.

Offline Schmengie

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Re: Interested in Photography...
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 11:00:03 am »
Sony's approach to live view, with a secondary live view sensor in the mirror box activated by a mechanical switch seems to be the most effective one in the reviews I've read. There's no mirror flip-up required, so the camera's AF systems work normally which is a huge advantage if you must have live view. I checked out the new Sony A330 at FS the other day and it seems like a nice camera although I don't much like the smaller grip. It is small and light, about on par with the Nikon D60. I have a Sony DSLR-A200 (no live view, which I don't miss at all) and it takes superb pictures.

Even smaller are the Olympus E-410 - 620 series of DSLRs that use the four-thirds system. Like any DSLR these will get heavier and bulkier with additional lenses, but the lenses themselves are smaller and lighter than those designed for the larger APS-C sensors found in most other consumer DSLRs. Personally, these cameras are a little too small for me, but they might be worth a look.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Thirds_System




« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 11:53:26 am by Schmengie »