Topic: CD Article: 2009 Toyota Yaris CE hatchback

[Honda Owner]

Every time I walk up to my Fit, I eagerly anticipate driving it. While I am sure the Yaris is a quality product that would give many years of reliable service, I don't think I would be looking for excuses to go out and flog it. I do with my Fit.

[Mitlov]

Every time I walk up to my Fit, I eagerly anticipate driving it. While I am sure the Yaris is a quality product that would give many years of reliable service, I don't think I would be looking for excuses to go out and flog it. I do with my Fit.

I thought you didn't care about those sorts of things?

Let me tell you about the car business Bob. It ain't about "shift levers falling readily to hand," or "the joy of the country road," or even "g-forces." For anyone who works in the car business, first and foremost it is about making money.

Anyway, I'm with Demosthenes X on this one.  I just can't see buying a Yaris over a Fit if you enjoy driving, and I can't see buying a Yaris over an Accent if you want a practical, frugal transportation appliance.

[johngenx]

Every time I walk up to my Fit, I eagerly anticipate driving it. While I am sure the Yaris is a quality product that would give many years of reliable service, I don't think I would be looking for excuses to go out and flog it. I do with my Fit.

You need to drive something outside of the compact FWD understeering-lump class.  I've driven all these cars, and all of them (Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Mazda) are far from good handling cars.  It's not about power, either.  Drive an older Miata with barely over 100hp, and you still have an entertaining car.

[The Mighty Duck]

You need to drive something outside of the compact FWD understeering-lump class.  I've driven all these cars, and all of them (Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Mazda) are far from good handling cars.  It's not about power, either.  Drive an older Miata with barely over 100hp, and you still have an entertaining car.

I really don't understand your point.  If it's that a Miata outhandles a Fit, then I return with: and the sky is blue.  Of course it will.  But can a Miata carry five and a sizeable cargo load?  Of course not.  They're different beasts.

The point is, the Fit handles very well for a FWD compact.  Yes, a RWD sports car will handle better, but that's a silly comparison.  When someone says "the Fit handles well", they mean it handles well for what it is.  Not that it's better than a dedicated sports car.  So pointing out that a Miata handles better is like pointing out that the sky is blue.  It's true...  but we all know it.

/rant

[Honda Owner]

I've driven all these cars, and all of them (Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Mazda) are far from good handling cars.

Well, my Fit handles very well for me and it is perfect for the kind of driving I do, which is like 99% urban stuff. If I need to haul a load of paint to one of my buildings, I can't do that in a Miata, nor will my skis and golf clubs fit (no pun intended) in at the same time, as I often do here in the spring time. I have even carried lumber in it. Thus, the Fit serves my needs, which is why I drive it.

If I need a bigger ride for a particular task, I rent one as I often do, and I enjoy driving other cars a couple of weeks a year. This summer is a Rocky Mountain tour and I think I will get a Lincoln MKS. But that car's ability is wasted where I live. The wife and I are also going to Tofino sans kids next month and for that trip we are getting a Mustang GT convertible.

Besides, cars don't make me money. Nobody makes money on a car. My other investments do make me money and that is where my extra income goes and why I am semi-retired at age 44. But other people who want to drive expensive cars and work 40+ hours a week are more than welcome to do that. I prefer to have other people make money for me.

[johngenx]

The point is, the Fit handles very well for a FWD compact. 

Faint praise.  All of the cars in this class are utilitarian appliances, and none of them are really fun or entertaining to drive.

I'm not saying that they're not good at what they do.  I know, both our Corolla and Forester have specific missions, and both fulfill them.  But, to say that a Fit, or any other compact econo-FWD car is even remotely "good handling" is just deluding yourself.  Maybe the Fit is the best of the group (though I'd dispute that when stacked against the 3 or Impreza) but so what?  They all just plow their front ends until the front tires are scrubbed free of tread.

[Honda Owner]

They all just plow their front ends until the front tires are scrubbed free of tread.

Have you actually spent any significant wheel time with a Fit? You are certainly not describing the way mine drives, especially with aftermarket sticky rubber. But to each his own.

[johngenx]

Have you actually spent any significant wheel time with a Fit?

Yes.  And no, there was no real chassis balance, no ability to throttle-steer it, and nothing more than safe, predictable understeer.  At low speeds and below the threshold of traction, it's not bad, but when pushed, it just understeers away.  Honda can't sell it any other way, as it's not a performance car, and is for mass appeal.

Stickier rubber would raise the limits, but not change the behaviour of the chassis.

Yes, for most people, it's more than enough, and at legal and even quite illegal speeds, it's fine.  But, compared to a fine RWD chassis like an 135i, it's not great.  I know the BMW is much more expensive and not at all designed for the same purpose of the Fit, but the BMW is a truly incredible handling car that combines a near-luxury ride with superb handling.

It's all relative.  I'm a pretty good distance runner in my age category and my little city.  But, stacked against the best, I suck.  I'm not really that fast, regardless of how great I look in some local amateur event, and I know it.  When someone says the Fit is a great handling car, I think "compared perhaps to a few others, but actually, it's not."

I'm not shitting on the car.  I highly recommend the Fit to people all the time.  It's a great package and I wish people would abandon their stupid SUV's (compared to which the Fit drives like an F1 car) and realize that incredible utility can be found in economical products.

[Honda Owner]

I would also wager that a Corvette Z01 handles better than my Fit, too, since it is also rear wheel drive.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

[tpl]

I agree with John.  The Fit will understeer forever unless provoked with the Finnish Flick as practised since forever** by Finnish rally drivers.   

Understeering forever is the right thing for such a car.   It keeps the airbags between the driver and the thing they hit... and this is desirable.

forever = since 2 stroke SAABs and the Mk1 mini used to win rallies.

[johngenx]

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Indeed, I am.  But, when someone states that the Fit is a great handling car, the set of cars includes cars like that BMW 135i (a must drive to see what a terrific street chassis is all about) or whatever.  If you were to say "the Fit handles pretty well considering it's a FWD compact" I'd probably agree.  But, the idea that someone would buy a Fit over a Versa hatch 'cause the Fit is some handling demon just doesn't wash with me.  They do feel different, and you should buy whatever you prefer, but pushed to their limits, all those little cars are pretty much the same.

[Honda Owner]

BMW 128i. $33,900

Honda Fit DX $14,990

[johngenx]

BMW 128i. $33,900

Honda Fit DX $14,990

True, but the Fit's low price does not mean it's a great handling car.  A Caddy Escalade handles like and costs $90K.  I'm not talking "bang for your buck."

[Mitlov]

For those that have driven both, how does the Fit's handling compare to the Mini?  It's not a direct competitor, but it's in the same league.  If the 135i to the Fit is apples to oranges, and the Fit to the Yaris is oranges to oranges, I'd call the Fit to the Mini oranges to tangerines.

The Mini starts at US$19,700; $5,000 more than a base Fit and only about $1,500 more than a Fit Sport with Nav.

I'm curious whether the Mini handles just a bit better, or whether it's on a whole different level.

[johngenx]

For those that have driven both, how does the Fit's handling compare to the Mini?

Interesting.  I'd love to wring out a Mini.  Anyone care to volunteer theirs?

[Honda Owner]

I'm curious whether the Mini handles just a bit better, or whether it's on a whole different level.

I had a Mini last time I was in Europe an drove it around southern France for a week. The car drives well and is fun but it is not, in my opinion, worth the price of entry and it is just too dorky for someone my age. Besides, here in Vancouver I would have to add Hello Kitty seat covers and a dash top air freshener to fit in with the local owners. That and a novice driver sign.

[Mitlov]

I'm curious whether the Mini handles just a bit better, or whether it's on a whole different level.

I had a Mini last time I was in Europe an drove it around southern France for a week. The car drives well and is fun but it is not, in my opinion, worth the price of entry and it is just too dorky for someone my age. Besides, here in Vancouver I would have to add Hello Kitty seat covers and a dash top air freshener to fit in with the local owners. That and a novice driver sign.

You didn't answer my question.  I'm not talking about image.  I'm asking if it handles and drives a lot better or just a little better than a Fit? 

[Honda Owner]

I drove the base model that is known as the Mini Classic here. From a purely subjective point of view the Fit is a better built and engineered car. It goes down the road better and feels lighter than the Mini I drove did. The turn in, bump recovery, tracking and overall solidity seems better on the Fit. However, I have sticky tires on my Fit and have never really experienced the stock rubber, which I hear is awful. Tires make a huge difference on any car.

[Mitlov]

I drove the base model that is known as the Mini Classic here. From a purely subjective point of view the Fit is a better built and engineered car. It goes down the road better and feels lighter than the Mini I drove did. The turn in, bump recovery, tracking and overall solidity seems better on the Fit. However, I have sticky tires on my Fit and have never really experienced the stock rubber, which I hear is awful. Tires make a huge difference on any car.

Okay, thanks.  Unfortunately you're comparing a Fit that's modified to a Mini model that's not sold in North America, which isn't a great way to measure a Fit (North American and stock) against a Mini Cooper (North American and stock).

[Honda Owner]

The Mini Classic I drove is sold in Canada. I don't know if it is sold in the USA.