Topic: Nissan releases GTR Spec V for 72% price hike, no more power

[vdk]

I don't think the car itself failed, Honda's the one that failed. How many years can you go with minimal changes to your 'supercar'?

[Squishy]

When it was first released it was relatively well positioned power-wise and worth the money. 

That can describe the GT-R Spec-V, can't it?

The death of the NSX was due to Honda not giving it any really major updates in 15 years - some small improvements and a facelift, but not enough to keep it bleeding-edge.  The GT-R Spec-V is almost a continuation of the "spirit" of the NSX, in my view.

[The Mighty Duck]

When it was first released it was relatively well positioned power-wise and worth the money. 

That can describe the GT-R Spec-V, can't it?

When you can buy the regular GT-R, with the same power, for 60% of the price of a Spec V?  You're kidding, right?

[Jaeger]

When it was first released it was relatively well positioned power-wise and worth the money. 

That can describe the GT-R Spec-V, can't it?

When you can buy the regular GT-R, with the same power, for 60% of the price of a Spec V?  You're kidding, right?

So same power = same performance?  You're kidding, right?

Jaeger

[The Mighty Duck]

So same power = same performance?  You're kidding, right?

Nope.  How many of those drivers are actually going to come close to using anywhere near all of the performance of the regular GT-R?  I'll wager even money it's in the single-digits.

So why should they pay $70 000 extra for a car that offers them nothing more?  At least if the thing had more power than the regular GT-R, they could say that and get some street cred.  Instead they're going to be stuck explaining that "Well, no, it has the same output, but it has a carbon fibre rear wing that increases downforce and-"

Their audience will be comatose by the second sentence.

[Jaeger]

Nope.  How many of those drivers are actually going to come close to using anywhere near all of the performance of the regular GT-R?  I'll wager even money it's in the single-digits.

Quite likely - so why do you keep repeatedly beating on the "it's more money, but no more power" drum?  It's not like I've read a single review of the GT-R that complains for lack of power.  And your suggestion that the V-Spec "offers them nothing more" is just patently false - even from the brief write-up you linked.

As others have pointed out, other manufacturers have offered lighter, higher-performance versions of their cars at significant premiums over the already costly "regular" versions.  It's not worth the extra money to you.  It's not worth the extra money to me.  But this is small portion of what is already a very limited production vehicle and I bet they have zero problem moving the small number of V-Specs that they will actually make.  Some people will pay just for the exclusivity. 

And while you are probably anxious to point out that this is "just a Nissan" - please keep in mind that the reason this vehicle will go down as a runaway success for the brand regaardless of actual sales figures is that "plain old Nissan" is now being discussed worldwide in the same breath as blueblood European brands commanding several times its price tag.

I'm just not sure I understand why the very existence of this vehicle seems to bother you so much.  If the notion of a $70k premium for this vehicle is as patently preposterous as you seem to suggest, it will flop right out of the gate for want of buyers.  Who knows - you may be proven right.  But I seriously doubt it.

Jaeger

[The Mighty Duck]

And while you are probably anxious to point out that this is "just a Nissan" - please keep in mind that the reason this vehicle will go down as a runaway success for the brand regaardless of actual sales figures is that "plain old Nissan" is now being discussed worldwide in the same breath as blueblood European brands commanding several times its price tag.

This is true.  But a big part of the reason the GT-R has received so much coverage is because of it's price.  At $90 000 or whatever it sells for in Canada, it's ridiculously good value.  It offers nearly unparalleled power at that price point.  If it were $160 000, would it be nearly as much of a success?  I doubt it.

My "problem" with the Spec V is that it demands a luxury-marquee price without delivering either the luxury-marquee prestige or any more power, and it comes with a 72% premium.

Yes, other manufacturers do it too.  Lamborghini offers a Gallardo Supperlegera.  But if you buy one, you do get more power (only 10 hp, though).  And the premium?  About 20%.  Ferrari offers a lightened, more powerful F430 with a 50% markup.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?  Yes, a company can offer a "lighter" version.  But Nissan goes further.  They're demanding a 72% markup for a car that doesn't offer any more power, even if it's just to say it has more power.  I doubt anyone actually thinks those 10 extra ponies in the Superleggera actually improve performance much.  But at least they can say "Yeah, it has more power than the regular model."

Of course, you and I know that HP numbers on their own are meaningless, but in the price range the Spec V stalks, I think buyers do care.  And I would be wary of paying nearly double for a car I couldn't even say is more powerful than the base model.

I've little doubt Nissan will sell every one they make.  There are plenty of people out there with too much money.  But I'd be surprised if the US model winds up having the same mark-up.  That 72% premium is awful steep.

[Jaeger]

Do you see what I'm getting at here?  Yes, a company can offer a "lighter" version.  But Nissan goes further.  They're demanding a 72% markup for a car that doesn't offer any more power, even if it's just to say it has more power.  I doubt anyone actually thinks those 10 extra ponies in the Superleggera actually improve performance much.  But at least they can say "Yeah, it has more power than the regular model."

Well, I have to disagree with you on this point - I don't think that adding more horsepower "just to say it has more horsepower" is a good idea.  Arguably, that could fairly be characterized as an utterly transparent marketing gimmick.  Is 10, 20, 30hp going to have any meaningful performance impact on this car?  Nope. Adding 30hp to a Fit - now that's a difference you're going to notice.  Adding same to a fire-breathing GT-R?  Not really. 

I tend to think that the target market (however small it might be) for the up-level GT-R is a bit better informed than the average adolescent still mired in placing excess emphasis on minor hp variations.  I think Nissan is taking the correct approach in NOT going that route.  At least I can say that it is an approach than appeals to me intellectually far more than some cheap carny hustle about a minute and realistically irrelevant hp boost.  Then again, it's been like a really long time since my automotive purchases have been the least bit informed by any potential "mine's bigger than yours" bragging rights.

So while I don't personally feel that the V-Spec is worth the significant extra dough, I don't think that the abscence of some purely notional horsepower increase factors into that assessment at all.

Jaeger

[Mitlov]

Do you see what I'm getting at here?  Yes, a company can offer a "lighter" version.  But Nissan goes further.  They're demanding a 72% markup for a car that doesn't offer any more power, even if it's just to say it has more power.  I doubt anyone actually thinks those 10 extra ponies in the Superleggera actually improve performance much.  But at least they can say "Yeah, it has more power than the regular model."

Well, I have to disagree with you on this point - I don't think that adding more horsepower "just to say it has more horsepower" is a good idea.  Arguably, that could fairly be characterized as an utterly transparent marketing gimmick.  Is 10, 20, 30hp going to have any meaningful performance impact on this car?  Nope. Adding 30hp to a Fit - now that's a difference you're going to notice.  Adding same to a fire-breathing GT-R?  Not really. 

I tend to think that the target market (however small it might be) for the up-level GT-R is a bit better informed than the average adolescent still mired in placing excess emphasis on minor hp variations.  I think Nissan is taking the correct approach in NOT going that route.  At least I can say that it is an approach than appeals to me intellectually far more than some cheap carny hustle about a minute and realistically irrelevant hp boost.  Then again, it's been like a really long time since my automotive purchases have been the least bit informed by any potential "mine's bigger than yours" bragging rights.

So while I don't personally feel that the V-Spec is worth the significant extra dough, I don't think that the abscence of some purely notional horsepower increase factors into that assessment at all.

Jaeger

There's more to life than power...is that why they put 500 horses in the GT-R to begin with?  The fact is, the R35 GT-R isn't a V6 NSX or a four-banger Lotus, it's an unbelievable fire-breather that also handles.  I would expect the special edition GT-R not only to handle better, but to breathe even more fire.

[The Mighty Duck]

^ That's just it.  For that kind of premium, I would be looking for more than some weight savings.  It's almost twice the price - how does the salesman explain that?

Customer: So, this thing costs quite a bit more than the regular GT-R, and only comes in one colour...  what's the upside?
Salesman: Well, we managed to make it lighter by 100 kg, and it's got this cool carbon fibre wing on the back.
Customer: Oh, great.  What else?
Salesman: Um...  did I mention the cool carbon fibre wing?

The GT-R bills itself as a stupidly powerful, stupidly fast, stupidly cheap machine.  The Spec V is still stupidly powerful and stupidly fast, but it's no longer stupidly cheap...  and it simply doesn't deliver anywhere to justify the price hike.  72% more expensive for exclusivity's sake?  Pass.

[Jaeger]

The GT-R bills itself as a stupidly powerful, stupidly fast, stupidly cheap machine.  The Spec V is still stupidly powerful and stupidly fast, but it's no longer stupidly cheap...  and it simply doesn't deliver anywhere to justify the price hike.  72% more expensive for exclusivity's sake?  Pass.

Pass, eh?  No doubt they will weep for the loss of a sale to you and Mitlov.    The price will be justifed to those who buy it - and I suspect these are the only people Nissan really need care about.  It would be a fool's game to try to impress and assuage every anonymous internet pundit.

Curious, though, as to how you know the the GT-R Spec - V "doesn't deliver anywhere [near] to justify the price hike"?  What's this categorical pronouncement based upon?  Have you driven it?  Have you read detailed performance reviews on it?  If not, is it your contention that actual performance (in respect of which reduced weight CAN have more of an impact that a token power increase) doesn't really matter?  That would seem to be the case - because IF it significantly betters the "base" GT-R in measured performance, surely that would help justify its premium price.

The Spec - V may not me "stupidly cheap" as compared with the current version, but it may still prove "stupidly cheap" as compared with the mega-buck vehicles in out-performs.  If it claims even loftier scalps than Godzilla Jr., that too may help justify the premium price.  But only to those who understand that actual performance matters and also understand that there is vastly more to the performace equation than simply counting ponies.

Jaeger

[Erik]

Interesting video on the Spec V. Kind of gives an idea of what Nissan is thinking of with the changes.

http://www.drivers-republic.com/first_look/news/details.cfm?articleid=f152c6f08af24eacba622c0440087caa

For that money, I just wish it was better looking. Looks like nothing more than a modernized Buick GNX (with a little Chevy Cobalt in the back end). Seriously impressive engineering tho.

[rrocket]

A GNX?  Have you ever seen a Grand National?  IMO it looks absolutely nothing like a GNX modernized or otherwise.  I think the only thing they share is the colour.   LOL  Seriously...whatever you're smoking..pass it so I can have some!!   

As far as the tailights?  The Cobalt borrowed them from Nissan.  The Skylines have always had those unique tail lights.....

[Erik]

  The Skylines have always had those unique tail lights.....

.....Since they borrowed them from the Corvette.


Certainly no Chevy history there with four round tail lights....

[Erik]

A GNX?  Have you ever seen a Grand National?  IMO it looks absolutely nothing like a GNX modernized or otherwise. 

Maybe Monte Carlo in there too actually....

[rrocket]

  The Skylines have always had those unique tail lights.....

.....Since they borrowed them from the Corvette.

No.  Corvettes were the same size.  GT-R were 2 big and 2 small(er)...with the 2 small being inboard.  Like the Cobalt did with theirs...


Monte Carlo??  LOL.......puff, puff, pass.....

[Erik]

  The Skylines have always had those unique tail lights.....

.....Since they borrowed them from the Corvette.

No.  Corvettes were the same size.  GT-R were 2 big and 2 small(er)...with the 2 small being inboard.  Like the Cobalt did with theirs...

Like this one?

[rrocket]

Those are aftermarket bits.  With the little teeny light in between the two, that's not even a GT-R.  That would be a.....GT-S S? 

[von_khan]

Friend of mine got himself a GTR. This guy loves driving his cars on the track. The GTR exceeded his expectations and then some.

That is... until he found out about Nissan's warranty policy... If it breaks and it breaks from putting the car on the track - you pay for it.

Needless to say that GTR was sold quite fast.

[rrocket]

Friend of mine got himself a GTR. This guy loves driving his cars on the track. The GTR exceeded his expectations and then some.

That is... until he found out about Nissan's warranty policy... If it breaks and it breaks from putting the car on the track - you pay for it.

Needless to say that GTR was sold quite fast.

I'm not sure whether most car companies pay for damages from tracking a car??

A few Z06 owners got owned by warranty for the same thing.........

Definitely not unique to sports cars.  No doubt they would deny claim on a Hyundai if they knew it happened on the track..