Topic: RX-7 and RX-9 in the works

[Mitlov]

Honda and Toyota would tell us that the only way to survive a recession is to abandon performance cars.

Thankfully, Mazda disagrees.

HIROSHIMA, Japan — Sources close to Mazda told Inside Line today that the next Mazda RX-7 is still in the works. Inside Line has also learned that a new Mazda RX-8 is also in the works and is expected to be called the Mazda RX-9.

Mazda will not let the rotary engine die with the current RX-8, sources tell IL. The company is well along in development of its next-generation RX-7, fitted with a front midship-mounted 16X rotary engine. The engine will generate upward of 270 horsepower from a normally aspirated power unit, they say.

The new twin-rotor engine will feature an 800cc x 2 configuration, up from the current 13B's 654cc x 2 format, while improving fuel economy by 20 percent.

By building such an engine, Mazda is looking to clean up a rotary image that was fraught with poor economy and emissions and excessive oil use.

The next RX-7's transmission is also all new. It's a twin-clutch, two-pedal six-speed unit with a twist that allows drivers to set the revs at which the clutches engage.

Engineers are also reportedly working on weight issues. By developing a new chassis, they have been able to shed some 220 pounds, reducing the RX-7's curb weight to the 2,640-pound range, according to one source.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=141987

That last sentence was bolded especially for Dorin.  As for me, I'm stoked for the toddler-friendly RX-9.

[ArticSteve]

No one has successfully survived the recession yet. 

Behind closed doors, far from the public's eye, an anonymous source at Mazda revealed to one of our spies in Japan that there will be another rotary-engine car coming from the Hiroshima-based company. It's still early, but a team is being assembled as you read this to produce such a car. The basis for the future car — we have yet to confirm if it will be called the RX-7 — is the 16X rotary engine, unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show last year. The 16X is an all-new Wankel — an evolution of the Renesis 13B powerplant in the RX-8 — with a revised eccentric shaft designed to produce more low-end torque. While Mazda hasn't published horsepower figures yet, we hear it's in the neighborhood of 200–250 bhp.

Because of the increase in torque, there probably won't be a turbocharged version of the 16X, at least not in the beginning. But our source went on to say that Mazda is still experimenting with forced induction. So, our first glimpse of the 16X will not be in a pure high-performance sports car like the last RX-7, discontinued more than a decade ago in the U.S., but rather something along the lines of the original RX-7 — an affordable, user-friendly sports car that was nimble and fun to drive.

Does this mean that the RX-8's days are numbered? Probably so. It's hard to imagine a small company like Mazda with two rotary cars in its lineup. It's also hard to imagine such a company having two 2-seat sports cars unless its name happens to be Lamborghini or Lotus.

With the MX-5 firmly established in Mazda's lineup, the new rotary-powered car will most likely be a 2+2 with distinct sports-car styling. That it will be built on an extended MX-5 platform is a given, which means it will share the dimensions and proportions of the Kabura concept car. Expect upper-and-lower A-arm suspension systems at both ends, as well as a low curb weight, something south of the 3000-lb. mark.

The expected on-sale date of the new-generation rotary car is 2010 to 2011, according to our source. Price? It's still too early to say, but Mazda's aim is to bring it in under $30,000.

[initial_D]

The FD RX-7 is one of the sexist even car from Japan. Hope the new one will be like that as well.

[quadzilla]

The engine will generate upward of 270 horsepower from a normally aspirated power unit, they say......

......while improving fuel economy by 20 percent.

So about 25% more hp and 20% better economy. I'll believe it when I see it.

[safristi]

...thats TODDLER WORTHY!!!!.........Dear fancy a new baby... or two   or three............................................... ..Rx"9"....................No not In Vitro stuff....the KAR...................

[Triple Bob]

They should offer the RX-8 or newer variants with the rotary or the MS3 engine, and see which one sells best.

[rrocket]

The engine will generate upward of 270 horsepower from a normally aspirated power unit, they say......

......while improving fuel economy by 20 percent.

So about 25% more hp and 20% better economy. I'll believe it when I see it.

Me too.  And I laugh when they say the new variant will burn less oil.  They said that before the current engine came out and it's not uncommon for the new engine to burn 1L per 1000kms.  Even half of that number would still be unacceptable IMO....

[safristi]

whale oil beef oct.........................doesn't Rotary stop Malaria................

[initial_D]

Thumbs up x 2 for Mazda continues to offer the Rotary.  There are other makers that offer conventional engines, better fuel economy, better power number, ... yadi yada, etc ... for those people who don't want the rotary.

[Mitlov]

They should offer the RX-8 or newer variants with the rotary or the MS3 engine, and see which one sells best.

My understanding is that this is a physical impossibility, because the RX-8 is designed around the idea of a tiny, superlight rotary engine.  From what I've heard, there's no room for a turbo four under the hood, and and a turbo four would dramatically alter the weight balance.

[Mitlov]

So about 25% more hp and 20% better economy. I'll believe it when I see it.

Didn't Porsche do something along these lines with the latest 911?  And BMW kept the M3's fuel economy the same while boosting horsepower 26% for the E92.  This would be a bigger generational jump in efficiency than average, but not outlandish IMO.  Especially given the relatively low target (in terms of both horsepower and fuel efficiency) with the current engine.

[rrocket]

The current engine is overrated in power as it as.  Every dyno test I've seen in print and in person dyno very low relative to the claimed HP.....

[Mitlov]

Here we go: Lexus IS, one generational change (IS300 AT to IS350): 42% increase in horsepower AND an 11% increase in combined fuel economy (according to 2008+ EPA ratings system).  So it can be done.

[quadzilla]

Here we go: Lexus IS, one generational change (IS300 AT to IS350): 42% increase in horsepower AND an 11% increase in combined fuel economy (according to 2008+ EPA ratings system).  So it can be done.

The IS300 had an I6 and the IS350 is a V6....two totally different engines.

[Mitlov]

Here we go: Lexus IS, one generational change (IS300 AT to IS350): 42% increase in horsepower AND an 11% increase in combined fuel economy (according to 2008+ EPA ratings system).  So it can be done.

The IS300 had an I6 and the IS350 is a V6....two totally different engines.

And my understanding is that the new RX cars will have a completely new-generation rotary.  It's not like they're slapping a new exhaust on the same engine and claiming 30% more power and 20% more fuel economy.

[Ice]

If the rumors over the years are to be believed...Mazda has been doing some serious work behind the scenes on their rotary engine design.  They have already revealed some of that research had gone into a hydrogen rotary which they then put into the Mazda5 and have been doing consumer trials ever since.  But I think they have also sunk allot of time and effort into a totally new generation of rotary for their sports cars. Which probably took allot longer than they hoped which is why I suspect the RX-8 has been on the market for so long without any significant changes (just some nips and tucks).

[TopGun]

Honda and Toyota would tell us that the only way to survive a recession is to abandon performance cars.

Thankfully, Mazda disagrees.

Good on 'em!  I've seen more effort going into improving the technology in the manual trannys too...the 370 has a rev matching feature and the R8-V10 has a launch control feature.

As for me, I'm stoked for the toddler-friendly RX-9.

My RX-8 is super toddler friendly Mitlov...and it doesn't seem to burn a lot of oil either.

[auto_enthusiast]

They should offer the RX-8 or newer variants with the rotary or the MS3 engine, and see which one sells best.

My understanding is that this is a physical impossibility, because the RX-8 is designed around the idea of a tiny, superlight rotary engine.  From what I've heard, there's no room for a turbo four under the hood, and and a turbo four would dramatically alter the weight balance.

I think someone has already put a 2JZ Supra engine into an RX8 - I'm sure the MS3 engine would fit without too much of a problem.

[Mitlov]

My RX-8 is super toddler friendly Mitlov...and it doesn't seem to burn a lot of oil either.

I know...I meant "toddler-friendly relative to the RX-7 I'm recommending for Dorin" as opposed to "toddler-friendly relative to the RX-8."  Sorry for the confusion.

[Triple Bob]

They should offer the RX-8 or newer variants with the rotary or the MS3 engine, and see which one sells best.

My understanding is that this is a physical impossibility, because the RX-8 is designed around the idea of a tiny, superlight rotary engine.  From what I've heard, there's no room for a turbo four under the hood, and and a turbo four would dramatically alter the weight balance.

They could design the new one otherwise.

Much as I like the rotary engine, I feel it's this that is holding it back as a truly great car. IMHO