Topic: SHOCK: Chevy beats Honda, Mazda, Mini, Subaru...

[rrocket]

Interesting to see they pick the winning performance car by the quality of it's interior. I guess it is important to enjoy your GTI's interior, since that's where you will be watching the Cobalts taillights disappear into the distance....

"Sure, he maybe be quicker, faster and better handling. But I have better quality plastic in MY interior!"

Certainly to some people a quality interior is important.  Afterall...you do sit in and drive the car from the interior.  And once you get used to a quality interior (something unlikely to happen to most GM owners) you demand a nice interior.  Recently, GM has shown they can build nice interiors (Malibu, CTS, Enclave).  So there is no reason we can't expect that in their other cars.  A cheap car with a nice interior makes the car feel much, much less....CHEAP.

Cobalt:  Feels fast.  Yes.  Handles well.  Yes.  Feels cheap.  YES!!

[Erik]

But a slower car, with a nicer interior is still.....

A slower car! 

These are performance cars we are talking about here, not luxury cars. Yes, all things being equal, a nice interior is a bonus. But if I am buying a performance car, it's raison d'etre should be performance.

[barrie1]

I had the pleasure of driving a new Cobalt in Oct for 5 days did not find the interior cheap at all or uncomfortable either. It wasent' the most expensive interior I have seen but was decent quality for the money. I'd take a Cobalt anyday and pocket the difference and have a ball with it as well. The savings difference will put a lot of mods for racing on it if I wish to also. 

[rrocket]

But a slower car, with a nicer interior is still.....

A slower car! 

These are performance cars we are talking about here, not luxury cars. Yes, all things being equal, a nice interior is a bonus. But if I am buying a performance car, it's raison d'etre should be performance.

And a Cobalt is still just a Cobalt.     

I LOVE performance more than anyone and the mods to my car reflect that.

But like I said....if you've had nothing but cheap interiors, this letdown won't matter to you at all.  But you CAN have performance with a nice interior.

[Erik]

But a slower car, with a nicer interior is still.....

A slower car! 

These are performance cars we are talking about here, not luxury cars. Yes, all things being equal, a nice interior is a bonus. But if I am buying a performance car, it's raison d'etre should be performance.

But you CAN have performance with a nice interior.

Yes, you can have performance with a nice interior. Just not very much of it. At least in this price range.

It is an easy choice in this group. You can pick performance or luxury. I like performance. You like luxury. I prefer to win. You prefer to lose, in comfort, in your nice interior.

[vdk]

I'll have to disagree with you here dude. You spent hours and hours in your car, inside your car that is, most of the time you're on the highway doing anywhere from 10 to 60.. would you rather have 1000hp or a nice interior?

It isn't everyday you're at the drag strip or on the 401 racing.. You win? I lose? What? 

[Erik]

I'll have to disagree with you here dude. You spent hours and hours in your car, inside your car that is, most of the time you're on the highway doing anywhere from 10 to 60.. would you rather have 1000hp or a nice interior?

It isn't everyday you're at the drag strip or on the 401 racing.. You win? I lose? What? 

What you say makes all kinds of sense. IF the comparison was for commuter cars. Or luxury cars.

The test was for PERFORMANCE cars. In the performance categories, the GTI was eaten alive by the Cobalt. The Cobalt was the better performing car by a lot, for a lot less money.

And in case you are wondering, I have never owned a Chevy, but I have owned many VW's....

[rrocket]

If you REALLY wanted to win...you wouldn't be looking at entry level "performance" cars anyways.

You'd buy a used car for the same money....a used car like a C5 Vette, a nicely modded import etc....

I also not a big defender of VWs.....have never really been a huge fan of them.  Nice cars..but not for me.

Dare we even ask what "winning" car you drive now Erik??

[vdk]

The Cobalt SS is a great car, performance wise.
The 3Speed balances performance and interior quality far better.
The GTi is more about interior quality than performance when compared with those other 2.
The WRX is AWD.


Pick yours. The WRX and the GTi are more mod friendly AFAIK.

[rrocket]

The Cobalt SS is a great car, performance wise.
The 3Speed balances performance and interior quality far better.
The GTi is more about interior quality than performance when compared with those other 2.
The WRX is AWD.


Pick yours. The WRX and the GTi are more mod friendly AFAIK.

The Cobalt and WRX are a touch more mod friendly than the GTi I would say....mostly because of aftermarket support.  The 3 Speed is up there too!!  Both Mazda and GM offer power up goodies (in the US anyways) for their cars.  The WRX has a MASSIVE aftermarket availability of parts.  I know GTis do very well with a reflash.

All of these cars mod very nicely.......Unfortunately, I don't see too many new GTis beyond BPU mods.  Is it because of the DSG??

[vdk]

For some maybe, but most who go far into modding are stick. The DSG should be able to handle ~320hp and about the same amount of TQs... now I personally wouldn't do it.. I'd get a stick and play it safe..

But then 320+hp in a FWD car is pretty pointless.. you'll have to get an aftermarket diff.. and you'll still be fighting the wheel.. Now an R32 on the other hand..

I think most people stop after they upgrade to a K04 turbine or a supercharger/turbo for VR6s, it's just too much power for the fronts. They then realize they have made a mistake, sell the dub and get an Audi.

I've seen MKI and MKII with VR6 engine swaps, but those guys really know what they're doing. Oh and a guy in Montreal which had a TT drivetrain on his Jetta - AWD and all, pretty sick.

The reason why you don't see many MKV GTis beyond BPU is because most owners don't really care about heavy modding, their car would probably be gone in a few years - no point of modding it and the returning it back or close to stock. On top of that MKVs are still fairly new.

I'm no specialist though.

[The Mighty Duck]

Honda didn't do a good job this time with SI. Even Clarky Boy wasn't impressed.

  The Civic Si is the oldest car on the list, and it still placed 5th.  It beat two cars with more power, one of which has AWD.  I'd call that a pretty good turn out.

And Top Gear has never tested our Civic Si...   

[tpl]

Most MkV cars are still just about under the 4 yr warranty. 
I chipped my 150BHP 2000 A4 as 150bhp was insufficient for that heavy car. My MKV GTI with 200bhp has sufficient power and therefore probably will not get any power mods.
I met a customer of H2sport who claimed about 280-290 bhp and a DSG that had no trouble.

[evil_twin]

Haven't driven any of these cars, so take my opinion for it's worth <end disclaimer>

The decision for me would come down to the WRX vs. GTI.  Love the WRX's AWD and power, not so hot on the styling, interior and 5 sp tranny.  Love the GTI's interior and 6 sp, not so hot on the FWD, exterior, and power.

Living in the great white north as we do, I think the subie would get my dollars.  The thing comes pretty much loaded for '09.  Just check off the black exterior on the spec sheet (and maybe the neat-o titanium STi shift knob) and you're done.

[footlong58]

Honda didn't do a good job this time with SI. Even Clarky Boy wasn't impressed.

  The Civic Si is the oldest car on the list, and it still placed 5th.  It beat two cars with more power, one of which has AWD.  I'd call that a pretty good turn out.

And Top Gear has never tested our Civic Si...   

If Clarkson didn't like the Euro Civic SI, why would you imply he'd like the NA variant!?

[The Mighty Duck]

If Clarkson didn't like the Euro Civic SI, why would you imply he'd like the NA variant!?

The Euro Civic Type R that Clarkson tested is a completely different vehicle from our own Civic Si.  I think they might have the same engine, but that's about it.  Different beasts...

[footlong58]

If Clarkson didn't like the Euro Civic SI, why would you imply he'd like the NA variant!?

The Euro Civic Type R that Clarkson tested is a completely different vehicle from our own Civic Si.  I think they might have the same engine, but that's about it.  Different beasts...

I know that...  I've never met anyone who'd rather have the North American Civic SI over a European Type-R...  My point was, if Clarkson bad mouthed a Euro Type-R, he'd probably fall asleep driving a NA Civic SI...

[Thinking Out Loud]

Anyone fathom why the Sentra SER or SER SpecV wasn't included in the comparo?

Just wondering, it's a personal interest car of mine......   

[rrocket]

Anyone fathom why the Sentra SER or SER SpecV wasn't included in the comparo?

Just wondering, it's a personal interest car of mine......   

They generally consider it a pretty weak package as a "performance" car.  That would be my guess.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Just jumped on Autotrader - there are a whack of new 2008 Cobalt SS (coupes) for $20,000 or less.....