Topic: Camry Last in Globe & Mail Comparo

[dougjp]

Nothing new about this at all, so there was no objective purpose for this post. They probably just read Edmunds comparison tests which are slightly over one year old, where the Camry also finished last, and filled in the blanks with the other cars.

Comparison test done by Edmunds:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=124091

Comparison test done by a range of Consumers:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123972

[UmroAyyar]

I will be surprised if a Camry finished in the Top 3 of any published comparison test.

Exactly, its understated middle of the road vehicle. Read my signature.

[Jaeger]

Much ado about nothing (other than sh1t disturbing by GregB). 

Precisely.  As predictable as a sunrise, but rarely as pretty.

As in-depth coparison tests go, this one is as shallow as a teaspoon.  And I say this even though they picked my Alti first.

Jaeger

[initial_D]

The Toyota owners I talked to like their cars, because of the regular maintenance, or the lack of the need for them, other than fluids and tires. Also, when it is time to sell, Toyota can be unloaded so much easier and faster.

[sailor723]

Not really a surprising result. The Camry has always seemed to me to be the car for people who aren't into cars.

[Ice]

People always think about the Camry LE and XLE but never about the Camry SE.  The SE is a very different car...different suspension, frame is reinforced at the back, different steering feel (different wheel altogether actually), etc.  The Camry LE/XLE and so forth are for the people who want a midsized sedan that offers absolutely no surprises.  The SE is for people who want something thats still a practical larger mid-size sedan but want something with a more sporty feel.  And please don't take it to mean that its a sports car...which it is not.  But I imagine it does the trick for quite a few people....and the V6 model is no slouch in the 0-100kph arena either.

None of the other midsize sedans that I can think of have such a dichotomy between two models.  None that I can think of anyways.

Also I think its telling how competitive this field is and how good the competition is that every site and review that you go to for mid-size sedans comes out with a different ranking with nearly all of them trading places.  I think the Sonata rarely makes it to first place...but everyone says what good value it is.  So if nobody can agree on what the best mid-sized sedan is...I figure the automakers are doing something right.  Even the new Malibu competes for first place.

[Frontier1]

^^^^That's pretty odd.  Most every review I read has never had the Altima as number one.  So I'm immediately suspicious.  In every other comparo, the Altima has always been near bottom...Of course.....these are with the 4 bangers..so who knows.  To be sure, the Altima with a 4 banger is pretty punchy though.

But I guess if it comes out of Toronto, it MUST be real....   (I've never been fond of Globe and Mail car "reviews" or "tests")

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0802_midsize_sedan_comparison/specs_and_road_test_data.html

Wrong wrong wrong, the Altima since 07 has been ahead of the Camry, just lately Driving television has the Altima 3rd and the Camry 7th.  I'll be blunt, the last good Camry was an 01.

I've never been fond of Globe and Mail car "reviews" or "tests"  But of course if the Camry was 1st with G & M it would be a different story, right?  Who cares what Motor Trend says, Edmunds has a different story so who's right?  But what I do know is that Consumers Report no longer recomends the Camry with a V6.

[Frontier1]

The Camry came in last ,big deal. Which car is the oldest design that was tested among the six? Answer Camry.
 

Wrong, new Camry 07, new Altima 07

[ArticSteve]

People always think about the Camry LE and XLE but never about the Camry SE.  The SE is a very different car...different suspension, frame is reinforced at the back, different steering feel (different wheel altogether actually), etc.  The Camry LE/XLE and so forth are for the people who want a midsized sedan that offers absolutely no surprises.  The SE is for people who want something thats still a practical larger mid-size sedan but want something with a more sporty feel.  And please don't take it to mean that its a sports car...which it is not.  But I imagine it does the trick for quite a few people....and the V6 model is no slouch in the 0-100kph arena either.

None of the other midsize sedans that I can think of have such a dichotomy between two models.  None that I can think of anyways.

Also I think its telling how competitive this field is and how good the competition is that every site and review that you go to for mid-size sedans comes out with a different ranking with nearly all of them trading places.  I think the Sonata rarely makes it to first place...but everyone says what good value it is.  So if nobody can agree on what the best mid-sized sedan is...I figure the automakers are doing something right.  Even the new Malibu competes for first place.

None of the other midsize sedans that I can think of have such a dichotomy between two models.  None that I can think of anyways.

DUDE

 

[Mitlov]

^^^^That's pretty odd.  Most every review I read has never had the Altima as number one.  So I'm immediately suspicious.  In every other comparo, the Altima has always been near bottom...Of course.....these are with the 4 bangers..so who knows.  To be sure, the Altima with a 4 banger is pretty punchy though.

But I guess if it comes out of Toronto, it MUST be real....   (I've never been fond of Globe and Mail car "reviews" or "tests")

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0802_midsize_sedan_comparison/specs_and_road_test_data.html

Car & Driver placed the Altima i4 in second place out of seven in this test:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2008_honda_accord_vs_nissan_altima_chevy_malibu_hyundai_sonata_toyota_camry_ford_fusion_dodge_avenger_comparison_test

And Car & Driver placed the Altima i4 in second place out of six in the previous year's test:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2007_honda_accord_vs_nissan_altima_kia_optima_saturn_aura_toyota_camry_chrysler_sebring_comparison_test

Incidentally, the Camry came in fifth in both tests.  What can I gather from this?  (1)  Not everybody likes the same thing, (2) the sort of person who likes the Altima probably doesn't like the Accord, and (3) this sort of person works at both Car & Driver and Globe & Mail.

Finally, even though the Globe & Mail ranked the Camry last, I don't think they were at all unfair to it in their description of it, which IMO was spot-on:

The Camry is a good, reliable, comfortable sedan and Toyota is a very strong brand. But the handling is mediocre and the cabin is a bit dull.

Nonetheless, the Camry is unlikely to every cause problems and its resale value is stunningly good — a tribute to what the marketplace thinks of both Toyota and the Camry.

[Seafoam]

The Camry came in last ,big deal. Which car is the oldest design that was tested among the six? Answer Camry.
 

Wrong, new Camry 07, new Altima 07

Actually I am correct. They were both 07's .However since we are splitting hairs here, the 07 camry was introduced in the spring of 06 while the 07 altima was introduced
in the fall of 06. 

[Jaeger]

Incidentally, the Camry came in fifth in both tests.  What can I gather from this?  (1)  Not everybody likes the same thing, (2) the sort of person who likes the Altima probably doesn't like the Accord, and (3) this sort of person works at both Car & Driver and Globe & Mail.

That second point is certainly true for me.  Altima and Accord are about as far apart as two vehicles get in this segment.  The Altima appeals to me (bought one).  Even as a Honda fan though (owned several), I find the Accord holds absolutely ZERO interest for me.

On another point raised earlier - while the Camry has never been the enthusiasts's choice in the midsize import segment, Toyota does deserve kudos for al least offering the SE version, which delivers a MUCH more crisp and composed driving experience than the soft and floaty LE / XLE.  I drove both versions back to back when I was shopping and was struck by the difference.  Choice is a good thing from the buyer's perspective. 

Jaeger

[rrocket]

^^^^That's pretty odd.  Most every review I read has never had the Altima as number one.  So I'm immediately suspicious.  In every other comparo, the Altima has always been near bottom...Of course.....these are with the 4 bangers..so who knows.  To be sure, the Altima with a 4 banger is pretty punchy though.

But I guess if it comes out of Toronto, it MUST be real....   (I've never been fond of Globe and Mail car "reviews" or "tests")

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0802_midsize_sedan_comparison/specs_and_road_test_data.html

Car & Driver placed the Altima i4 in second place out of seven in this test:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2008_honda_accord_vs_nissan_altima_chevy_malibu_hyundai_sonata_toyota_camry_ford_fusion_dodge_avenger_comparison_test

And Car & Driver placed the Altima i4 in second place out of six in the previous year's test:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2007_honda_accord_vs_nissan_altima_kia_optima_saturn_aura_toyota_camry_chrysler_sebring_comparison_test

Incidentally, the Camry came in fifth in both tests.  What can I gather from this?  (1)  Not everybody likes the same thing, (2) the sort of person who likes the Altima probably doesn't like the Accord, and (3) this sort of person works at both Car & Driver and Globe & Mail.

Finally, even though the Globe & Mail ranked the Camry last, I don't think they were at all unfair to it in their description of it, which IMO was spot-on:

The Camry is a good, reliable, comfortable sedan and Toyota is a very strong brand. But the handling is mediocre and the cabin is a bit dull.

Nonetheless, the Camry is unlikely to every cause problems and its resale value is stunningly good — a tribute to what the marketplace thinks of both Toyota and the Camry.

Pretty much what I said (see bold).  The tests I seemed to recall were all the 6 banger models.......This one and the one's you point out are the 4 banger model.  Which as I recall was a pretty stout 4 banger....

For clarity..I don't recall the 6 banger Altima finishing near the top in comparos....

[whistler]

Its refreshing to finally see the reviews reflect the actual quality of the car...

I've never understood how the Camry ever wins comparos and stays a sales leader. The best praise the magazines can normally come up with is "Toyota quality". What does that even mean? The build quality of the new Camry is nothing to write home about... its interior is full of cheap materials and isn't even put together that well...

Future reliability and dependability? I guess Toyota still has that reputation, but their newer vehicles have been dragging it through the mud somewhat.

There are just soooo many cars in the category that are better than the Camry... Every Japanese contender (Mazda 6, Nissan Altima, and of course the Accord) is a better car than the Toyota Camry in build quality, design, driving characteristics, and normally price. Bar none. I'd even go so far to say that most of the Domestics (Fusion/Malibu) and the Sonata are also better cars than the current Toyota Camry when it comes to build quality, design, driving characteristics, and of course, price.

Every time I hear somebody buying a new Camry, THEN hear how much Toyota managed to get out of them for it, I just shake my head. Maybe if all you care about in the world is resale value, it makes sense... but even then, why not a Honda Accord?

[ArticSteve]

build quality, design, driving characteristics

While you expand on each category in detail please post pics of the Camrys you have driven.

[whistler]

Why would I have bothered taking pictures of Camry's I've driven?? They are Camry's, not Ferraris. I'm not going to put their photos in an album to tell future generations about all the Toyota Camry's I drove in my day. 

I've driven the last 3 gens (99-02, 02-06, 07-now) and they all drove sloppy, had spongy brakes with no feel, over boosted and vague steering... Other Toyotas (ie Corolla) are the same deal. I just don't understand how anybody who actually cares about driving and road feel would want one over the other awesome cars in the category.

The new ones have cruddy interiors full of hard plastics, uneven panel gaps and are worse than even the new Chevy Malibu or refreshed Hyundai Sonata.

I've heard the new SE is a different car... I haven't driven one of those... but why have a sloppy car thats dressed up when you can have one that has better dynamics to begin with?? (6, Altima, Accord) The Camry has been getting worse every generation while everybody else gets better.

The Camry is the definition of an appliance on wheels... it does nothing better than its competitors, but it has the reputation of being a "safe" choice so it sells to a lot of people who don't care/know about cars.

[quadzilla]

I always love comments like this....

I've driven the last 3 gens (99-02, 02-06, 07-now) and they all drove sloppy, had spongy brakes with no feel, over boosted and vague steering... Other Toyotas (ie Corolla) are the same deal. I just don't understand how anybody who actually cares about driving and road feel would want one over the other awesome cars in the category.

Well I guess the first time could be considered a mistake but you bought TWO more versions of this car. So I guess it would be fair to say that you would buy these over the other awesome cars in this category.

Are you still driving one of these sloppy, spongy brakes with no feel, over boosted and vague steering cars or did you pick something else?

[Frontier1]

The Camry came in last ,big deal. Which car is the oldest design that was tested among the six? Answer Camry.
 

Wrong, new Camry 07, new Altima 07

Actually I am correct. They were both 07's .However since we are splitting hairs here, the 07 camry was introduced in the spring of 06 while the 07 altima was introduced
in the fall of 06. 

Wow didn't take long for the Camry to fall behind

[Seafoam]

The Camry came in last ,big deal. Which car is the oldest design that was tested among the six? Answer Camry.
 

Wrong, new Camry 07, new Altima 07

Actually I am correct. They were both 07's .However since we are splitting hairs here, the 07 camry was introduced in the spring of 06 while the 07 altima was introduced
in the fall of 06. 

Wow didn't take long for the Camry to fall behind

Didn't fall down in the sales though.

[rrocket]

The Camry came in last ,big deal. Which car is the oldest design that was tested among the six? Answer Camry.
 

Wrong, new Camry 07, new Altima 07

Actually I am correct. They were both 07's .However since we are splitting hairs here, the 07 camry was introduced in the spring of 06 while the 07 altima was introduced
in the fall of 06. 

Wow didn't take long for the Camry to fall behind

Hmmmm...didn't see the re-do of the Altima as Car of The Year...but noticed the Camry was for its' re-do in 2007.....