Author Topic: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan  (Read 29943 times)

Offline johngenx

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2009, 01:40:51 pm »
I think Toyota was pretty smart installing the 2.4L Camry engine in the XRS and keeping the price super low.  The market for an Si type screamer is small and the previous XRS versions were slow sellers compared to the new one.  The torque of the 2.4L is very nice, though in a Corolla or Civic, I would not live with the fuel economy penalty.  BUT, the 2.4L engine has comparable fuel economy to the Mazda 3.

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2009, 01:48:12 pm »

Quote
IMHO, Honda would broaden the appeal of their Civic should they take a page from the Mazda, Nissan and Toyota

The Civic is already #1 so it might not be a good idea to have the Civic compete with other models in the Honda line. Messing with success is not always a good idea. Honda's conservatism has served it well over the years. Nothing radical, just good products.

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2009, 02:16:38 pm »
It is a different block and it won't fit. Hondas are engineered to very fine tolerances which is the reason they are so light. However, this is the reason that engine swaps are not possible. Unlike GM's Ectoech series, Honda engines are not interchangeable.

???  Tell that to the guys that cram all manner of engines into Honda products.  Prelude motor into a Civic?  Sure.  RSX motor into a Civic?  It's called the CSX.  Civic Si motor into the Fit?  Sure - Mugen has done it.

So the claim that "engine swaps are not possible" is beyond ridiculous.  ::)

For those complaining about the lack of sporting credentials in the "Sport", remember: this is all marketing.  The "Sport" is just a Civic EX with a new badge.  Do you expect a Grand Caravan "Sport" to be sporty, too?

Offline Canadiain

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2009, 02:37:22 pm »
Far as I can tell the "Sport " is largely exactly the same as last years "LX with sunroof", or an EX without leather?  Just a name change, thats all.

For your  $4500k over base you get the 16" alloys, and an upgrade to disks all round (only drums on the back of the cheaper civics), plus AC, cruise and sunroof and a few other inconsequential things.  AC cruise and sunroof as options will always jack up the price.  Why AC isn't standard given our climate I don't know, I like a sunroof and was prepared to pay for it, but Im sure there are plenty of buyers looking at this vehicle who might be put off by paying for something they dont necessarily want in order to get a few things that they do (Disks all round etc)

I own a 08 civic LX (S), and chose it over the (2.0l) Mazda 3 at a similar spec and price (The honda was a bit more) on the grounds that it just felt more solid and it drove just as well, if not a bit better in terms of turn in behaviour.  I liked the split level digital speedo too, something that is no longer even commented on in this review.  I agree with the earlier comment about needing a duster though!

In addition to the driving feel, it also seemed much more solidly built, with a more modern style than the Mazda. 

Fuel efficiency / carbon footprint were a major consideration in putting together a shortlist, nothing bigger than a 2.0 was considered, and I suspect that this is a large part of the civics #1 sales spot.  Putting a larger engine in as standard could well turn as  many buyers looking for economy away as it would attract those looking for more power.  Coming from the UK where my last car was a 1.1, even that 2.0l cutoff seemed somewhat luxurious.  I dont get why north americans persist in large engines in compact cars, 2.3l is not a small engine in the rest of the world!

The manual tranny on the Honda was also slicker IMO, and as the car weighs less, the smaller engine results in better economy with no noticeable difference in pick up and performance, its revs willingly to the red line (advantage of the manual tranny too).  Over the last year I have averaged 38 mpg (7.4 l/100km)

Frankly, in an ideal world there are only two things I would change about the Honda:

Put a 6 speed manual in it as quite often in 5th it would be nice to change up to get the revs down when cruising. Its obviously geared for pick up around town, but the down side to that is 3000rpm+ at highway speeds in 5th

Make the heater better.  At -15 it heats up the car fine, but below that I suspect the efficient engine simply does not put out enough heat to get the inside toasty at all, no matter how far you drive.  In cold temps the temp never quite gets to the middle of the gauge.

It would be nice if there were some less dull colours to choose from too.

Overall though its a fine vehicle at this trim level and I have no regrets at choosing it.   Its relatively fuel efficient, its fun to drive, has a few toys like the sunroof, and it has room for 4, basically it checked all the boxes for me. 
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 03:42:41 pm by Canadiain »

Offline Loudpedal

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2009, 04:06:11 pm »

Quote
IMHO, Honda would broaden the appeal of their Civic should they take a page from the Mazda, Nissan and Toyota

The Civic is already #1 so it might not be a good idea to have the Civic compete with other models in the Honda line. Messing with success is not always a good idea. Honda's conservatism has served it well over the years. Nothing radical, just good products.

For Honda, maintaining the #1 sales position should be the front and centre goal for the product marketing folks.  If your competitors are offering something that you aren't, you risk losing customers to your competitors.   

I would expect that a 2.4l option in a Civic would steal more sales from Toyota, Nissan, VW, and Mazda (who incidentially all offer mid 2 litre displacement engines in their compacts) than would be lost in any Accord sales cannibalization. 

Actually, Honda's recent 'conservatism' has started to show cracks, and they would be best advised to shed it, or risk moving downward over time.   
Internal combustion thrust I trust

Offline johngenx

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2009, 05:18:51 pm »
Toyota figured out that Camry and Corolla buyers are not the same.  Having a shared engine doesn't mean that Camry buyers might move down to the less expensive Corolla.  Now, Toyota has ensured that there is a price gap between the two.  Mazda knows this as well.

But, does Honda need a larger engine in the most expensive Civic?  I'm not sure.  But, as the price the Sport is, it does seem a little value-shy compared to the 3 and the Corolla XRS.  That said, the latest Civic is a nice car and you can't go wrong buying one.

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2009, 06:14:42 pm »
Why not put the 2.0 L Acura engine in since they are already doing it for the CSX for Canada only. Its not like it would be a big change but it would go alot farther towards justifying a sport tag than Sunrooms and intermitent wipers

And then they could upcharge $7500 for the Sport.

vdk

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2009, 06:27:46 pm »
I don't see how it would cannibalize Accord sales.. given the Accord is twice the size of a Civic..

Offline lostcomma

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2009, 07:26:43 pm »
I found the civic a pleasant drive. The coupe is better looking. The only qualms I have are the dual layer dash (I could probably get use to it, but digital readouts??) and that bloody emerg brake sticks  right in your thigh.  ???
Although the cold weather heater issue might be another thing.

Greg B.

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2009, 08:13:25 pm »
Why AC isn't standard given our climate I don't know

The -20C or lower temps many of us experienced last week might have had something to do with that.

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2009, 01:59:47 am »
Quote
Why AC isn't standard given our climate I don't know

I specifically bought my Fit without a/c for the reason that where I live it might be hot enough to really need it two days a year. I would rather not have to deal with the extra cost, complexity and weight.

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2009, 02:21:10 am »
Quote
Why AC isn't standard given our climate I don't know

I specifically bought my Fit without a/c for the reason that where I live it might be hot enough to really need it two days a year. I would rather not have to deal with the extra cost, complexity and weight.
Same Vancouver that I'm in? Perhaps not so much for absolute dead-of-summer-heat (happens more than two days a year, really!) but clearing  fast & keeping the windows condensation free is good too.

Greg B.

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2009, 06:16:03 am »
Quote
Why AC isn't standard given our climate I don't know

I specifically bought my Fit without a/c for the reason that where I live it might be hot enough to really need it two days a year. I would rather not have to deal with the extra cost, complexity and weight.
Same Vancouver that I'm in? 

We're not really sure what world HO lives in sometimes...  ;D

Offline johngenx

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2009, 08:42:40 am »
I specifically bought my Fit without a/c for the reason that where I live it might be hot enough to really need it two days a year. I would rather not have to deal with the extra cost, complexity and weight.

Good luck on resale.  My friends had an Echo without AC and being a base econo car, you'd think that AC would not be a big requirement.  Every call about the car went like...

"No AC?"  <click>

They ate it big time on the price eventually.  The $1K they saved on AC was no savings at all in the end.  As for complexity and long term reliability, it is true that AC systems can become problematic at very high mileage.

Offline tpl

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2009, 08:47:41 am »
Even if there are few "hot" days, modern tires are so noisy that it is almost mandatory to keep the windows shut. Not to mention the aerodynamics of most modern cars do not allow for open windows any faster than about 40 km/h.
For myself I'd be happy with only the drivers window openable and a/c standard.   
The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

Offline Canadiain

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2009, 10:18:44 am »
I found the civic a pleasant drive. The coupe is better looking. The only qualms I have are the dual layer dash (I could probably get use to it, but digital readouts??) and that bloody emerg brake sticks  right in your thigh.  ???
Although the cold weather heater issue might be another thing.

I love the split dash, the digital readout is very well executed, and I now find it distracting to have to focus closer and get a "rough idea" of the speed from the dial in my Subaru.  I have to take my eyes off the road for a lot longer.

As for the handbrake..its a bit odd at first, but its extremely well positioned for actually using it at lights, or doing handbrake turns in the snow:)  On long trips I can see that the poking in near your knee could be an annoyance, but its not all that hard to avoid either.  I guess it depends on your attitude to the thing, if you only ever use it in emergencies then its probably a hassle, but having been taught to drive in the UK where the manual tranny is king, its beaten into you with a blunt object that its there to be used in everyday driving, not just when all else has failed.

I guess when I referred to "this climate" I was referring to Ontario, where the summer humidity can be oppressive for weeks at a time.  Resale value is also a factor, but I dont change cars often enough to worry about it, if Im going to hold on to a car ten years, then I will pay more to get what I really want.  I did baulk at $160 for a block heater though, thats taking the :censor: big time.  If I was in Edmonton or somewhere with real winter conditions I would expect it as standard, which its not.  Here the sales guy reckoned maybe 10% of buyers stump up for one, as its kind of marginal here for the number of really cold days where its a necessity to avoid long term harm.  Here it was -19 this morning and the heater was able to manage OK.  Its always OK at clearing the windows, which I guess is the important thing, but it never been tempting to take my jacket off yet in cold weather.  My economy in the cold has been down in the low 30s...probably all the idling to warm the bugger up!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 10:31:49 am by Canadiain »

Offline Canadiain

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2009, 10:27:24 am »
Even if there are few "hot" days, modern tires are so noisy that it is almost mandatory to keep the windows shut. Not to mention the aerodynamics of most modern cars do not allow for open windows any faster than about 40 km/h.
For myself I'd be happy with only the drivers window openable and a/c standard.   

The "sport" is equipped with a sunroof ;)

I seldom have the windows open as a result.


I read somewhere that given the drag from open windows, it was more efficient to close windows and turn on the AC in excess of 60(?) kmh, but below 60 opening the windows used less extra fuel than having the AC on.  Not sure where the sunroof fits in, but I like the more open feeling.  One day I expect I'll end up with a convertible.

Offline Loudpedal

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2009, 01:00:02 pm »
Even if there are few "hot" days, modern tires are so noisy that it is almost mandatory to keep the windows shut. Not to mention the aerodynamics of most modern cars do not allow for open windows any faster than about 40 km/h.
For myself I'd be happy with only the drivers window openable and a/c standard.   

The "sport" is equipped with a sunroof ;)

I seldom have the windows open as a result.




I read somewhere that given the drag from open windows, it was more efficient to close windows and turn on the AC in excess of 60(?) kmh, but below 60 opening the windows used less extra fuel than having the AC on.  Not sure where the sunroof fits in, but I like the more open feeling.  One day I expect I'll end up with a convertible.

Car and Driver did an efficiency test in their mag a few months back.  IIRC, air con was less efficient than windows at all speeds.   I was surprised, as I had believed a/c to be more efficient than windows at higher speeds.   

Offline Cord

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2009, 01:18:43 pm »
I've always considered those comparisons somewhat spurious becasue it's not like AC and open windows provide anything like the same conditions inside the car. Variables like wind noise, greenhouse effect, temperature differences, etc. make comparing these two situations moot. It's fine to determine which scenario uses more fuel at whatever speed but it is ridiculous to assume that open windows vs. AC is an equal comparison.
"If we can just believe something then we don't have to really think for ourselves, do we?" Paul Haggis

vdk

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Re: CD Article: 2009 Honda Civic Sport sedan
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2009, 02:53:07 pm »
see what you're using your AC you're actually cooling down the planet.. ;D

all AC systems are not created equal.. some use more gas some less.. I personally have my windows up 99% of the time.. so AC it is..

has anyone ever opened their window on the highway in stop and go traffic..? the air is toxic..