Topic: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The original Taurus was Ford's last really successful attempt at design innovation IMO, the only word I can think I can think of to describe this new one is 'bland'.

The original Taurus innovation, as such, hinged on it's appearance as a near clone of the very forward thinking 'jelly-bean' Audi 5000 of the era - relative to the boxy Chevy Celebrity's and Dodge Dynasty's of the 1980's.

R&T or C&D did a comparison back in the mid eighties of the Taurus/5000 due to the obvious mimicry of Ford, and the Taurus did quite well in power, handling and packaging, especially since it was never intended to compete against the 5000.

When I first clicked on the link, a see-through Honda ad appeared over the image of the Taurus, and I accidentally thought I opened up an Accord link..... 

The Audi was much more rectilinear than the jellybean Taurus. The only thing they shared design-wise was a close eye on aerodynamics. The Eagle Premier that followed was much closer to the Audi.

The original Taurus was a huge gamble. The family car segment is notoriously conservative. Anything out of the accepted norms of the time generally fail.

[Wolverine]

Prices announced:

Autoblog's quote:

As we mentioned earlier, the base price of Ford's new flagship sedan in SE trim is the same $25,995 as the 2009 model. For those looking for more toys in their car, Ford is still offering the SEL and Limited models at $27,995 and $31,995 respectively. The two upper trim levels can be had with paddle shifters for the 6-speed automatic, a first for the Taurus.

[MKII]

Well the car God of America Mr.Champion of CR has given the new Taurus his kiss of death
"The Ford Taurus may come with a wealth of technology inside, but it has the exterior styling of a tank, he said.

"You know it's going to be reliable, you know it is going to be well made, but that car just doesn't have the styling needed to make a mark."
 

Wonder how he likes the current Taurus styling?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Well the car God of America Mr.Champion of CR has given the new Taurus his kiss of death
"The Ford Taurus may come with a wealth of technology inside, but it has the exterior styling of a tank, he said.

"You know it's going to be reliable, you know it is going to be well made, but that car just doesn't have the styling needed to make a mark."
 

Wonder how he likes the current Taurus styling?

What does he consider to be the styling benchmark in this class? Not that it matters, the only information I want from CR is reliability data.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I don't love the styling, but it will stand-out more now. At least it has some interesting elements. The front section just appears so thick though, which may appeal to Americans as it really does remind me of a tank or more SUV-like vehicle from the front/front-side that just happens to have a sedan greenhouse on 'er - and a rather boxy one at that. The rear hasn't been shot much, but I like its distinctiveness quite a bit. I hope it does better because the platform is solid, hopefully just as roomy with nicer fitting & feeling interior, the EcoBoost should be thrilling, and they've moved quite a bit forward from where they were. Unfortunately they've positioned it just north of where the buying action is.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Pedestrian collision mitigation is driving a lot of the front end styling these days.
To my eyes it looks pretty good for it's class.

[Dante]

I'm in the crowd that likes this car, although I'm not a buyer in this class and I don't think I'll ever be.
I'd have to say that I like this car overall. I specifically like the front end and I would like to see it on a C/D car. I dislike the excessive chrome accents, but I know many buyers in this class like them and they only come in the higher trims and packages.
If you go by the full-size car standards, I think the Taurus now stands out, not that it's too hard to do so with the current offerings (Avalon, Azera, Maxima, Impala).
The EcoBoost engine is what I'm very interested in and I'll watch to see if it delivers on its promises.

[initial_D]

Our family bought 2 the original Taurii, '86 & '92. Loved them until th odom hits pass 120,000Km, then things fall apart. The exterior design of them were a big plus. Ford lost us as a customer long ago.


The new look is kinda tall & big in appearance, probably is what most Americans like and want.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 is expected to attain fuel economy numbers of 16 mpg city and 25 mpg highway based on preliminary testing of the all-wheel-drive 2010 Lincoln MKS while producing an estimated 355 horsepower at 5,700 rpm and 350 lbs.-ft. of torque at 3,500 rpm.

I wonder if it will be detuned for the Taurus SHO?

[initial_D]

SHO is suppose to be Super High Output, detune the engine would not make any sense in that sense. Wonder if the SHO version will have AWD & manual.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

SHO is suppose to be Super High Output, detune the engine would not make any sense in that sense. Wonder if the SHO version will have AWD & manual.

Flappy paddles and AWD. They don't have a manual transmission available for this engine.

[ArticSteve]

This doesn't compete with the Camry, Altima, and Sonata.  That's the Fusion's job.  This competes with the Avalon, Maxima, and Azera.  Against that competition, the price is very competitive.

Except for the wheels, I think it looks great in and out.  I'm extremely impressed. 

The Fusion has failed to compete with Accord or Camry.  The Taurus will compete with V6 versions of the Accord and Camry as long as gas prices stay low. Ford's days of 0% financing are over and that's going to be a huge problem for them.  It looks like a nice car, but without big discounts and super low financing this car is going to be a low volume seller, particularily in Canada, IMO.   

[Dante]

Outselling Honda or Toyota is a far reach for any domestic car due to perception. The trucks are the opposite.
However, selling in healthy numbers it is still possible with good products and good prices (not necessarily heavily discounted). You have to remember that until recently the domestics did not have many really good products if at all and all they could do to move the metal was to put lots of money on the hood.

[Mitlov]

This doesn't compete with the Camry, Altima, and Sonata.  That's the Fusion's job.  This competes with the Avalon, Maxima, and Azera.  Against that competition, the price is very competitive.

Except for the wheels, I think it looks great in and out.  I'm extremely impressed. 

The Fusion has failed to compete with Accord or Camry.  The Taurus will compete with V6 versions of the Accord and Camry as long as gas prices stay low. Ford's days of 0% financing are over and that's going to be a huge problem for them.  It looks like a nice car, but without big discounts and super low financing this car is going to be a low volume seller, particularily in Canada, IMO.   

My understanding is that the Fusion outsells the Sonata in the United States.  It's a player, even if it doesn't dominate the segment.  There's a big difference between "not out-selling the Accord and Camry" and "not competing against the Accord and Camry."  After all, the Sonata competes against the Accord and Camry, even though it doesn't out-sell them.

The Taurus and the Avalon and the Azera are a different segment than the Camry and the Fusion and the Sonata.  That's really all there is too it.

[ArticSteve]

My understanding is that the Fusion outsells the Sonata in the United States.  It's a player, even if it doesn't dominate the segment.  There's a big difference between "not out-selling the Accord and Camry" and "not competing against the Accord and Camry."  After all, the Sonata competes against the Accord and Camry, even though it doesn't out-sell them.

The Taurus and the Avalon and the Azera are a different segment than the Camry and the Fusion and the Sonata.  That's really all there is too it.

After all, the Sonata competes against the Accord and Camry, even though it doesn't out-sell them.

The Sonata and the Fusion, which have relied on 0% to sell are the poor man's Accord and Camry.  Fusion and Sonata and now the Malibu are all very similar.   True mid sized cars.  Accord and Camry just large enough to be considered by many buyers to be full sized FWD vehicles.

The Taurus and the Avalon and the Azera are a different segment than the Camry

For Ford's sake I hope buyers don't consider the Taurus in the same segment as the Azera and Avalon.  The Azera's sales numbers are a joke.  Only a huge conglomerate like Hyundai could keep that thing alive.  The Avalon numbers are only 3 times that of the Azera @ 43000 units for 2008.  Fortunately for Toyota the Avalon is a stretched V6 Camry assembled on the same line.  Both models have seen a 60% reduction in sales in 2008 from 2007.  In contrast Camry and Accord dropped about 12% in sales.

Taurus is gonna run head on into Camry and Accord.  If gas stays low in the States it's gotta a chance at establishing a beachhead. 2010 Camry is coming on stream in the spring with a bigger I4 with a 6 speed tranny and many extras as standard.  It's gonna be tuff segment.




 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

WTF do sales numbers have to do with the quality of a car? The K-cars were top sellers for years, but weren't very good.

The reality is that pretty much any Ford is more engaging to drive than any of the current Toyotas and they're just as reliable. Sales will come in time.

It's better for Ford to sell fewer cars at a profit than selling huge numbers at a loss. They were well on their way to accomplishing this before the hit the fan.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Success in this arena for Ford will be overall increased sales over the previous vehicle - not beating the Accord.  No one at the domestics would dare raise the 'drive them back to the shores' thinking with the Citation and Cavalier in the 1980's. 

Interior dimensions aside in the categorization of full vs mid size, ultimately the space differentials are second to the way the space is utilized and the perception of the cars size. 

Park a Taurus next to an Accord next to a Camry next to a Gallant next to a Malibu next to even a Sonata, and the 'size' issue is only shades different.

Throw in driving dynamics and there's a whole new dimention. 

Ford wants to sell more Taurii at a profit - usurping the Accord and Camry would be nice gravy, though.  But still gravy.

[Wolverine]

Steve, the Fusion is larger, wider and shorter than the Camry by 2mm, the Accord is larger than the Fusion by 134 mm, wider by 33 mm and taller by 23 mm. So, by your own math, the Camry competes with the Fusion, but not with the Accord... ??

Camry, Accord, Fusion, Sonata and Malibu are mid sizers, Avalon, Taurus and Azera are full sizers.

How can you say the Taurus is in the same category of the Accord, if the current Taurus is almost 200 mm larger than the Accord...?

[MKII]

My understanding is that the Fusion outsells the Sonata in the United States.  It's a player, even if it doesn't dominate the segment.  There's a big difference between "not out-selling the Accord and Camry" and "not competing against the Accord and Camry."  After all, the Sonata competes against the Accord and Camry, even though it doesn't out-sell them.

The Taurus and the Avalon and the Azera are a different segment than the Camry and the Fusion and the Sonata.  That's really all there is too it.

After all, the Sonata competes against the Accord and Camry, even though it doesn't out-sell them.

The Sonata and the Fusion, which have relied on 0% to sell are the poor man's Accord and Camry.  Fusion and Sonata and now the Malibu are all very similar.   True mid sized cars.  Accord and Camry just large enough to be considered by many buyers to be full sized FWD vehicles.

The Taurus and the Avalon and the Azera are a different segment than the Camry

For Ford's sake I hope buyers don't consider the Taurus in the same segment as the Azera and Avalon.  The Azera's sales numbers are a joke.  Only a huge conglomerate like Hyundai could keep that thing alive.  The Avalon numbers are only 3 times that of the Azera @ 43000 units for 2008.  Fortunately for Toyota the Avalon is a stretched V6 Camry assembled on the same line.  Both models have seen a 60% reduction in sales in 2008 from 2007.  In contrast Camry and Accord dropped about 12% in sales.

Taurus is gonna run head on into Camry and Accord.  If gas stays low in the States it's gotta a chance at establishing a beachhead. 2010 Camry is coming on stream in the spring with a bigger I4 with a 6 speed tranny and many extras as standard.  It's gonna be tuff segment.

2010 Ford Fusion
 Height (mm) : 1453
 Length (mm) : 4831
 Width (mm) : 1834

2009 Toyota Camry
 Height (mm) : 1455
 Length (mm) : 4805
 Width (mm) : 1820

Is 2010 Camry going to get larger?

Large cars US market are only 6% market share, whereas Midsize cars have over a 16% share of the market. So which segment if asked whom is tops in, would you put Accord and Camry? Is Accord or Camry the top dog in midsize or large car segments?

For Fords sake I hope buyers do not think the new Taurus is in the same segment as the Accord and Camry, for
the reasons of MSRP level perception.
I do think the new Fusion does have the substance now to stand on its own feet as a true midsize competitor, and not have to default to the settle for choice.
BTW your mighty Toyota has had to move its vehicles (US market) with the dreaded 0% carrot the last few months as well.

Fords goal at the moment is sustainability, and changing consumer perception, not trying to outsell Toyota or Honda.
At least it looks like Ford N.A. is getting serious about competiting, and actually raising the bar in some cases such as tech/features offered and EPA ratings.

[Honda Owner]

Loved them until th odom hits pass 120,000Km, then things fall apart

Pretty common with all the Big Threemobiles of the era. I am not convinced that this has changed much. The Big 2.5's new wonder cars are too new to tell if they will have long term reliability. This is the real test they face.