Topic: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus

[ArticSteve]

I don't think Ford is trying to go upscale with the Taurus (like Hyundai with Genesis). It's just their interpretation of what a modern full size (not mid-size) sedan should be. Will they be successful or not, only time will tell.

The Taurus is V6 only so I don't think a comparison with the Camry I4 makes any sense; perhaps with the V6 Camry, but then again, the Taurus is a full-size and the Camry it's a mid-size.

The "stripper" Taurus will be around $26K USD IIRC, which is right between the stripper Camry V6 ($24,200 USD) and the stripper Avalon ($27,800 USD), but I bet it will be better equipped in the lowest trim than both.

That's where we disagree.  IMO, I don't believe joe public will perceive that the new Taurus is larger than the Accord or Camry to make a difference and pay the extra price.  I don't believe the depressed market in the USA will change for years and I don't think there will be a huge market for domestic 4WD sedans or sedans north of $30K USD.  Currently, the Canadian lease rate on a 2009 Taurus base model is 13.19%.    The price is $28K including $5K off.   I think Ford's lack of financing and not the MSRP is going to be the determining factor.

I also think that items like this are just prone to fail, subsequently causing some major service costs out of warranty. 

Easy FuelT Capless Fuel Filler System is an industry-exclusive feature that self-seals without a traditional fuel cap.

Guaranteed to fail at 30 below.
 

[Wolverine]

Steve, the Fusion is larger, wider and shorter than the Camry by 2mm, the Accord is larger than the Fusion by 134 mm, wider by 33 mm and taller by 23 mm. So, by your own math, the Camry competes with the Fusion, but not with the Accord... ??

Camry, Accord, Fusion, Sonata and Malibu are mid sizers, Avalon, Taurus and Azera are full sizers.

How can you say the Taurus is in the same category of the Accord, if the current Taurus is almost 200 mm larger than the Accord...?

Steve, the Fusion is larger, wider and shorter than the Camry by 2mm

Since the Fusion is an American car can we please dispense with metric measurements. 

The outside measurements may be the same as the Camry, but it's still based on the old Mazda 6 CD3 platform and when you're ACTUALLY in them you can see that; not roomy in the least.

Even the "revised" 2010 Fusion and Milan are based on the same platform.

I took all the info from Ford and Toyota canadian website, that's why is all in mm.

The Fusion has more front leg room and less rear leg room than the Camry, all other internal dimensions are almost the same, with less than an inch of difference.

2 mm is really ridiculous, that's why I cited it, to show that there's no real difference.

Only a blind person would not notice the 12.6 inches of difference in length between the current Taurus and the Camry.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The fact remains that the current Fusion is built on the old Mazda 6 platform and as such is a cramped vehicle to drive and it looks small because of it's hideous squat appearance.  Now the new Mazda 6 is a real improvement in terms of size so that is going to be a plus for the Fusion, if infact it's to be built on that platform.  However, without continuous 0% financing, it's all moot.

Which is a complete lie. As Wolverine and I both pointed out, the interior dimensions of the Fusion are within an inch of the interior dimensions of the Camry. I've had a lot of experience with both. They are damn near identical.

[99 Silver]

Just curious - do you work for Active-Burgess?

No...but I worked for them for a year or so several years ago....

Did you work for them??

No, I am in a completely different business, but I know somebody in management there.

[Dante]

Never mind the Camry Steve. Tell me how would you think the Taurus compares to the Avalon.

[footlong58]

"Since the Fusion is an American car can we please dispense with metric measurements.  "
What does that have to with what units are used
Are not  engine size given in metric


RR do you make  your product  at work in metric or imperial  ?

What does that have to with what units are used
Are not  engine size given in metric

 

It's an American car and Americans measure objects in inches and feet.  It's ridiculous to refer to a car being 2mm larger as if that actually relates to anything useful. 

You're arguing over inches and millimeters...  Good lord... You need a hobby or a girlfriend, SOMETHING...



I really like the looks of this new Taurus...

[ArticSteve]

Never mind the Camry Steve. Tell me how would you think the Taurus compares to the Avalon.

It don't.    Avalon owners, such as my sister's husband, are like former 60's and 70's Olds 98 and Cadillac owners. They seek quiet, highway floaters with lots of interior room.  But this time around they don't want any technical issues, plus they want proven resale value and reasonable mileage.  He's 63.

Avalons are not even on the radar in Canada due to pricing, but his 2006 new Avalon Limited Nav, not available here, cost him 30K USD at the end of 2006.  They gotta be cheap to build because they are essentially stretched Camry XLEs so Toyota should be able to make a continuing business case for them.

The Taurus is a restyled 500.  Will that restyling be enough to make a winner?  I dunno.  IMO, they are falling into the same trap.  Too expensive for the mass market and too much range in price.  One dilutes the other.

What they really needed to do, if they are being true to the Taurus heritage, is admit that the current Taurus was a horrendous dud and build a car that bests the Camry and Accord.  Something between the Fusion and the Taurus.  Not easy considering their current power trains, but if your not in that market then who are you targeting? 

[ArticSteve]

I took all the info from Ford and Toyota canadian website, that's why is all in mm.

I understand that.  By law they are forced to do that.  But in Canada all practical measurements are expressed in inches/feet.  Something the government will never be able to change.  That is why ppl here refer to wheels in inches.  Accordingly, when ppl refer to common objects in mm it reminds me of the Trudeau legacy and I get crazy. 

[rrocket]

I refer to my manhood in metric.  A triple digit number just sounds more impressive!!   

[Ice]

I took all the info from Ford and Toyota canadian website, that's why is all in mm.

I understand that.  By law they are forced to do that.  But in Canada all practical measurements are expressed in inches/feet.  Something the government will never be able to change.  That is why ppl here refer to wheels in inches.  Accordingly, when ppl refer to common objects in mm it reminds me of the Trudeau legacy and I get crazy. 

Whats a practical measurement?

My parents operate in inches and feet.  My generation operate largely in meters, centimeters, and kilometers.  With some strange exceptions....

[initial_D]

I refer to my manhood in metric.  A triple digit number just sounds more impressive!!   

Nano Nano Nano?

[ArticSteve]

I refer to my manhood in metric.  A triple digit number just sounds more impressive!!   

 

[ArticSteve]

Whats a practical measurement?

My parents operate in inches and feet.  My generation operate largely in meters, centimeters, and kilometers.  With some strange exceptions....

OK  ..... a plasma TV purchase,   a friggin piece of lumber,   a friggin Canadian football field,  one's friggin height (please don't tell me you state height in cm)   

[Wolverine]

Whats a practical measurement?

My parents operate in inches and feet.  My generation operate largely in meters, centimeters, and kilometers.  With some strange exceptions....

OK  ..... a plasma TV purchase,   a friggin piece of lumber,   a friggin Canadian football field,  one's friggin height (please don't tell me you state height in cm)   

OK, but you have to agree that it doesn't make any difference in the size of the car if it's expressed in mm or inches.

[Ex-airbalancer]

ten years ago, I was was building a shed, ask my son to cut a piece of of in inches, he look at me like a deer caught in the head lights

[Dante]

Never mind the Camry Steve. Tell me how would you think the Taurus compares to the Avalon.

It don't.    Avalon owners, such as my sister's husband, are like former 60's and 70's Olds 98 and Cadillac owners. They seek quiet, highway floaters with lots of interior room.  But this time around they don't want any technical issues, plus they want proven resale value and reasonable mileage.  He's 63.

Avalons are not even on the radar in Canada due to pricing, but his 2006 new Avalon Limited Nav, not available here, cost him 30K USD at the end of 2006.  They gotta be cheap to build because they are essentially stretched Camry XLEs so Toyota should be able to make a continuing business case for them.

The Taurus is a restyled 500.  Will that restyling be enough to make a winner?  I dunno.  IMO, they are falling into the same trap.  Too expensive for the mass market and too much range in price.  One dilutes the other.

What they really needed to do, if they are being true to the Taurus heritage, is admit that the current Taurus was a horrendous dud and build a car that bests the Camry and Accord.  Something between the Fusion and the Taurus.  Not easy considering their current power trains, but if your not in that market then who are you targeting? 

I guess the description of the Avalon mostly matches the old Taurus, especially in terms of the demographics. The new Taurus I think will have a much broader audience now that it actually looks good.

Now, if you insist to compare the Taurus with Camry and Accord, why wouldn’t Taurus be competitive with any of them, V6 versions, other than the fact that it's significantly bigger and the MSRP is only slightly higher?

[Thinking Out Loud]

I always give a Big Shout Out to manus that have the ball$ to rent a track and park their dierct competition next to their new product for comparison.....

That shows both confidence AND a company prepared to directly hear from people about which product is better than product 'X'. 

[initial_D]

Whats a practical measurement?

My parents operate in inches and feet.  My generation operate largely in meters, centimeters, and kilometers.  With some strange exceptions....

OK  ..... a plasma TV purchase,   a friggin piece of lumber,   a friggin Canadian football field,  one's friggin height (please don't tell me you state height in cm)   

Cut down the F' words please, Artic. New Year Resolution, remember?

[Cord]

Easy FuelT Capless Fuel Filler System is an industry-exclusive feature that self-seals without a traditional fuel cap.

Guaranteed to fail at 30 below.

This feature has been out for some time now. During plenty of -30 weather.

[Leviathan]

OK, but you have to agree that it doesn't make any difference in the size of the car if it's expressed in mm or inches.

Don't worry about AS's braying - the rest of CTC grok mm just fine