Author Topic: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus  (Read 31433 times)

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #100 on: January 15, 2009, 09:28:43 pm »

OK, but you have to agree that it doesn't make any difference in the size of the car if it's expressed in mm or inches.

I tell you what  :)  Next time anyone on this forum, when describing wheel and tire size use inches, please correct them and insist they use metric.  Then I will agree with you.  :)

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2009, 10:11:15 pm »

I guess the description of the Avalon mostly matches the old Taurus, especially in terms of the demographics. The new Taurus I think will have a much broader audience now that it actually looks good.

Now, if you insist to compare the Taurus with Camry and Accord, why wouldn’t Taurus be competitive with any of them, V6 versions, other than the fact that it's significantly bigger and the MSRP is only slightly higher?


We will need to wait and see exactly what the pricing is and more importantly what kind of vehicle financing Ford will be capable of.  IMO, they have pretty well "Hyundyied" themselves to "zero" % or "employee" pricing.  Neither which can be sustained.

You assume that the Taurus power train is an equal to that of the Accord and Camry.  Is it not the same as the current 500?  That is not a good thing.

I just don't think that a re-skinned expensive 500 (when optioned with all the items Ford says makes it worth buying) is going to fly in a market that is in a near depression just because it now looks like every other sedan.

The 2010 Taurus is 4 years too late.  GM is trying the same thing with the LaCross, but again too late to the party.

In addition, I think Americans are finally getting it because of the huge drop in personal wealth in that country and the last gas crisis.  Which is why an I4, if they are perfected, are satisfactory for the times.

The Camry 180 HP/6 speed auto will hit the market in late April.  Ppl will be able to buy one of those fully loaded with leather, ESP, heated seats, JBL stereo, sunroof, for the price of a base Taurus with cloth seats and no roof.  Plus it will get 25% better mileage in city conditions.  Plus it will have guaranteed good resale value, something Fords do not have to be blamed partially on their subprime financing.

Essentially, the new Taurus is the wrong car for the day.  Slightly too expensive and too fuel inefficient.  4 years ago when it should have come out, it would have been a hit.  Not in a semi depression.   
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 10:13:14 pm by articsteve »

Offline Cord

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #102 on: January 15, 2009, 10:43:18 pm »
Quote
You assume that the Taurus power train is an equal to that of the Accord and Camry.  Is it not the same as the current 500?  That is not a good thing.

What do you mean by "current 500?" The 500 has not been built since mid 2007. Please provide something to back up your seemingly unfounded and uninformed opinion that there is a problem with Ford's 3.5/6 speed combo.

A quick google will show you that this engine was a Ward's 10 Best for 2006 and 2007.
"If we can just believe something then we don't have to really think for ourselves, do we?" Paul Haggis

Offline rrocket

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #103 on: January 15, 2009, 10:52:37 pm »
Any reason why they didn't use the 3.7 from the Linc for the new Taurus I wonder?
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Cord

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2009, 11:30:35 pm »
Any reason why they didn't use the 3.7 from the Linc for the new Taurus I wonder?

So they can help justify the price difference?

Offline rrocket

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2009, 11:33:38 pm »
We both know the price difference between having a 3.5 and a 3.7 is about $3.  LOL

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #106 on: January 15, 2009, 11:37:07 pm »

What do you mean by "current 500?" The 500 has not been built since mid 2007. Please provide something to back up your seemingly unfounded and uninformed opinion that there is a problem with Ford's 3.5/6 speed combo.

A quick google will show you that this engine was a Ward's 10 Best for 2006 and 2007.

What do you mean by "current 500?"

The current Taurus.  The "500" Ford renamed the Taurus thinking that would change it somehow.  So from now on when discussing a "Taurus" ppl will need to identify if it's the old one (500) or the upcoming one.  Talking about diluting a brand name.

The restyled Five Hundred sedan, which was first shown at the 2007 Detroit Auto Show has been renamed as the Taurus for the 2008 model year. The rebadging announcement was made at the 2007 Chicago Auto Show, and Ford employees hastily removed the badging from a Five Hundred on a rotating stand, and replaced it with Taurus badging

However, the Ford Five Hundred nameplate is still used in the Middle East for the 2008 model year, despite having the name "Taurus" used on it in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Five_Hundred




Ward's 10 Best for 2006 and 2007

So was the Cadillac motor found in the Seville, STS, Deville, etc.  That is a real disaster to repair and repair they needed.  They didn't sort those motors out till 2002, and they are not worth taking in on trade as the parts and labour is so outrageous.  To change a starter in that motor at a GM shop will cost ya 2K if you're lucky.

So screw what Wards say.  They rate a motor when it first hits the market.  Where are they 7 years later?  Listen to what the market says; the sales figures and the resale.  I won't be a *ick and post the 2008 sales numbers on the "Taurus".  :)

Everybody knows my opinion on cars like the new Taurus and the new Lacrosse.  They are all so late to the game and when they finally get there the market as changed.  You gotta lead the market, not follow it.

The other thing is timing.  This is a really bad time.  It's gonna get worse for a few years.  The demographic that the Taurus is targeting has lost from 35% to 50% of their net worth in the USA.  

In trim that the Taurus is really designed for; the car will be too expensive.  However, this time around there will be no loosie goosie sub prime customer financing to throw at it.  This applies to the Lacrosse as well.  Taking it "upscale" (GM's words) is ridiculous in this market.  Everyone that buys domestic cars are going to be "downscaling", IMO.



Offline Cord

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #107 on: January 15, 2009, 11:48:49 pm »
The 2008 Taurus has a completely different powertrain than the Five Hundred which preceeded it. You were able to find Wikipedia but couldn't find that? I recall you made the same pronouncements of doom regarding domestic trucks when the Tundra was released. I see no reason to think your ability to see into the future has improved.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #108 on: January 15, 2009, 11:51:05 pm »
I recall you made the same pronouncements of doom regarding domestic trucks when the Tundra was released.

Well he was right on that one though.  ALL truck sales have tanked....LOL....

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #109 on: January 15, 2009, 11:54:14 pm »
I tell you what  :)  Next time anyone on this forum, when describing wheel and tire size use inches, please correct them and insist they use metric.  Then I will agree with you.  :)
Perhaps you can explain to the class what "235" of 235/70R16 is? Really, just STFU about it.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 11:59:36 pm by Leviathan »

Offline Cord

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #110 on: January 15, 2009, 11:57:04 pm »
I recall you made the same pronouncements of doom regarding domestic trucks when the Tundra was released.

Well he was right on that one though.  ALL truck sales have tanked....LOL....

Uh no, he wasn't.  Ford, GM, and Dodge are still manging to sell what, 10,000+ units a month in Canada? The Tundra is managing what, 500 sales a month in Canada? Hardly the juggernaut predicted. BTW, wasn't that Hino diesel supposed to be out by now? :rofl:

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2009, 12:36:14 am »
The 2008 Taurus has a completely different powertrain than the Five Hundred which preceeded it. You were able to find Wikipedia but couldn't find that? I recall you made the same pronouncements of doom regarding domestic trucks when the Tundra was released. I see no reason to think your ability to see into the future has improved.

The 2008 Taurus has a completely different powertrain than the Five Hundred which preceeded it

Who cared?  That's the point.  :bang:   Potential buyers didn't know it was any different obviously because sales dropped 23% from 2007 to 2008.  They just saw the same crappy car renamed Taurus from 500.

Soon ppl are gonna see the "new" Taurus and say gee "wasn't the Taurus that boxie looking sales dud from last year? 

Ford's killed that name plate.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 12:44:37 am by articsteve »

Offline Cord

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2009, 01:04:49 am »
Nice try. Next time try knowing something about what you're trying to talk about.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2009, 01:20:25 am »
It's exactly as I stated.  The market didn't give a hoot what was powering that car and nobody else did either. 

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2009, 01:21:58 am »
I tell you what  :)  Next time anyone on this forum, when describing wheel and tire size use inches, please correct them and insist they use metric.  Then I will agree with you.  :)
Perhaps you can explain to the class what "235" of 235/70R16 is? Really, just STFU about it.

I tell you what  :)  Next time anyone on this forum, when describing wheel and tire size use inches, please correct them and insist they use metric.  Then I will agree with you.  :)



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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2009, 01:34:01 am »
I tell you what  :)  Next time anyone on this forum, when describing wheel and tire size use inches, please correct them and insist they use metric.  Then I will agree with you.  :)
Perhaps you can explain to the class what "235" of 235/70R16 is? Really, just STFU about it.

I tell you what  :)  Next time anyone on this forum, when describing wheel and tire size use inches, please correct them and insist they use metric.  Then I will agree with you.  :)
And yet another piece falls into place  ::) An Ass so perfect that others of his kind sing his praises

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2009, 02:00:48 am »

Uh no, he wasn't.  Ford, GM, and Dodge are still manging to sell what, 10,000+ units a month in Canada? The Tundra is managing what, 500 sales a month in Canada? Hardly the juggernaut predicted. BTW, wasn't that Hino diesel supposed to be out by now? :rofl:

Ford, GM, and Dodge are still manging to sell what, 10,000+ units a month in Canada?

Dodge will be out of business by the end of the year.

Those numbers include 3/4 and 1 tons that Toyota don't offer YET and that many are fleet sales.  Resales value on the domestic 1/2 tons in the toilet.  That's what endless sub prime financing does.
 
2009 Ford F150 fresh out of the box and already it's got $1000 cash back and 0% for 5 years.  Man, that is desperation city.  What's the point of making cars if you gotta give the profit away with the product.

Toyota has the equivalent of 50 Billion USD in cash.  Made a measly 6 Billion last fiscal year.  They are simply just going to wait it out.  Let the Little 3 bankrupt themselves with cash back and 0%.  However, after they blow thru the bailout money they will be SOL on 0% financing.  Must suck so bad to be a domestic dealer; see your equity decimated.

BTW, wasn't that Hino diesel supposed to be out by now?

2010 and when it comes it will be game over in the diesel department for GM and particularly Ford.

Ford's  newest International "Navistar" diesel is another disaster.   The warranty claims on that POS motor must be sucking the life out of Ford.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/03/super_duty_reca.html

and the emission problems are not the only difficulties.  The head gaskets are blowing and to replace the entire cab must be removed from the chassis.   ::)

This motor (6.4) could very easily sink Ford.  Extremely technical which has led to high rate of engine failures, poor fuel mileage and any significant engine repair requires the cab to be removed from the frame.  Pointless to own out of warranty.  The builder, Navistar, and Ford are locked in a major lawsuit.    

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=551841;topic=60659.100;num_replies=114;sesc=2498b914fcd36978aeb987a3b8fbf7ff

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f35/ford-techs-6-4-big-problems-210683/

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f35/mpg-anyone-have-problems-like-me-211752/

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=188438

tic toc, tic toc.

Offline MKII

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2009, 05:31:16 am »
Steve what do you care if Ford Taurus doesn't sell. If you are so concerned call Mr.Mulally and give him your advise. ;D

Toyota's the best,the smartess, the richest, the greatess,  there do you feel better now. ???

Back to the Taurus.
Ford Taurus microsite http://www.fordvehicles.com/2010taurus/


For Steve "According to Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales here in the States, "The shift that you'll see in January from December is more consumer cash and less APR and lease support through our dealers."  :rofl2:

Toyota fell behind Chevrolet and Ford for the month and was the only one of the top-five selling brands to lose market share. So after a 0 percent financing program failed last fall, Toyota is now preparing to pump money into consumer rebates.

According to Edmunds.com, Toyota had the biggest percentage boost in incentive spending in December at an average $1,995 per sale. That was up 87 percent from what the brand spent in December 2007.

"Toyota is testing the waters now," said Jessica Caldwell, an Edmunds.com analyst. "Zero percent did not resonate. They're trying to find something to work for them."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20090112/ANA09/901120352/1115

« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 05:53:00 am by MKII »

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2009, 08:09:30 am »
Not that it's relevent here, but Ford and Navistar have reached a settlement. Lawsuits have been withdrawn.

Then there's this:

Toyota was expected to launch a heavy-duty pickup in 2009 using a vehicle developed by its Hino Motors Ltd. affiliate, but that project has been halted indefinitely, according to Automotive News.

and this:

Toyota has apparently seen the light and given up the idea of competing head on with the Detroit 3 for big truck supremacy. Toyota America president Jim Lentz told Automotive News that his company no longer plans to challenge for the top spot in the segment. With the market shrinking fast, Toyota's share has been dropping even faster. Tundra sales were down 60.7 percent in September compared to only a 3.9 percent drop at Chevrolet. Ford, which is preparing to launch the F-150 in the coming weeks saw sales of the old model drop 41.6 percent while Dodge Ram sales were 30.6 percent off. Toyota has already decided to consolidate full size truck production from two factories to one and Lentz also confirmed reports that the diesel engine for the Tundra that was announced last January has been shelved. With volumes down so much, adding another engine to the mix at this point doesn't make sense for Toyota.

[Source: Automotive News - sub. req'd]

Summary here


And back on target, the Taurus outsold the Avalon 52,667 (plus 16187 Sables, total 68854) to 42,790 last year in the US. If the Taurus is a failure, the Avalon is a dismal failure. The new styling and new powertrains will only increase the spread.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 09:07:11 am by Big_Thumb »
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Offline Cord

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Re: Ford reveals Proper Flagship Taurus
« Reply #119 on: January 16, 2009, 10:12:16 am »
Quote
Not that it's relevent here, but Ford and Navistar have reached a settlement. Lawsuits have been withdrawn.

Quote
Toyota was expected to launch a heavy-duty pickup in 2009 using a vehicle developed by its Hino Motors Ltd. affiliate, but that project has been halted indefinitely, according to Automotive News.

What?! That's not what as says. You mean he doesn't know what he's talking about? Again?