Topic: 2009 Venza pricing for Canada released

[rrocket]

However, loaded, uphill, under acceleration, it would feel rather sluggish I think.

But most 4 bangers in this situation would also feel sluggish IMO......

[Dante]

However, loaded, uphill, under acceleration, it would feel rather sluggish I think.

But most 4 bangers in this situation would also feel sluggish IMO......

True, but it gets aggravating when the car itself is overweight and it's sluggish before all that.

[rrocket]

^^Well we'll disagree.  But I don't think a vehicle that has the dimensions of the Venza is overweight at 3700 lbs.

A 2009 BMW M3 at 3700+ lbs...now THAT'S overweight....

But for an SUV/large wagon thingie....it's not so bad.

[ArticSteve]

LOL Steve, what does it mean "TOYOTA power"? Is there something magic about the power-to-weight ratio in Toyota vehicles that defeats the physics laws?

Indeed Sir!  

I'll explain it this way.  1995 BMW 525i 5 speed.  Without looking it up, I think that I6 had only about 190 HP.  But that was one fast car.  Same thing applies to the older Porsches.  

Steve, without looking up the numbers, I bet none of the models you mentioned had 3,740 lbs.

In an under 3,000 lbs car, Venza's I4 could be a whole lot of fun (throw in a good chassis, suspension, steering, etc.).

The following is what I was attempting to express to you prior:

What does surprise me is how much I like the combination of the 2.7-liter four-cylinder engine and the six-speed automatic transmission. Our test car's 9.3-second 0-to-60-mph time might give the impression that the drivetrain is nothing special. But at full throttle on a freeway entrance ramp, everything comes together perfectly. The four-cylinder is unflustered and refined, and the transmission delivers extremely smooth upshifts. This is the first crossover I've driven that doesn't feel like it would really be better off with a V6.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=137526/pageId=155642


In an under 3,000 lbs car, Venza's I4 could be a whole lot of fun (throw in a good chassis, suspension, steering, etc.).

Then ppl should really look elsewhere.  Toyota buyers are ppl that aren't really in the gambling mood and fun is not really a word that applies to Toyota cars.  Now the Tundra, 4 Runner and FJ can be a real hoot.  However this kind of sums it up on Toyota passenger cars IMO:

The total absence of excitement in driving a 2009 Toyota Venza might put off any of you hoping to combine practicality and passion in one crumb-encrusted family vehicle. But sometimes singular focus is a good thing, and when it comes to utilitarian five-passenger transportation, Toyota might have just outdone everyone.

On the other hand, the V6 should be excellent especially when the fuel economy penalty is minimal.

On paper engine upgrades sound reasonable, but in reality they are far from it.  I have extensive seat time in both the 4.7 Tundra and the 5.7 and on paper it's easy to move up to the 5.7, but the actual "over the course of a day" mileage difference is major and at $1.00 plus litre gas it's rough.  $1.30 litre gas it's depressing. 

Same thing goes with the V6 Camry.  On paper it's like 2 miles a US gallon difference highway, but in typical everyday useage that includes much idling and city it's really significant.  Then there is the issue of repairability way down the ownership road.  The I4s are gonna be a breeze in comparison.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Holy F$CK
It a wagon, people who want a higher ride ,more room will buy the f#cking thing
They will not care about HP, 1/4 mile times
It about how much they can fit when they go to Costco

[Greg B.]

This thread has been derailed.....

That's what always happens when Steve starts to spew. 

[Dante]

^^Well we'll disagree.  But I don't think a vehicle that has the dimensions of the Venza is overweight at 3700 lbs.

A 2009 BMW M3 at 3700+ lbs...now THAT'S overweight....

But for an SUV/large wagon thingie....it's not so bad.

.... But the M3 has lots of power on tap to move that mass AND do it fast.

I agree with you that the Venza's weight is reasonable for a vehicle this size. All I'm saying is that an I4 in this vehicle is too small if you care about get up and go now versus later.  The V6 would be the natural choice for this vehicle IMO.

This does not only apply to Toyota in my opinion, but any manufacturer. Remember how GM put the I4 in its 4,000+ lbs Vue?  That's lame too IMO. Now Hyundai wants to put an I4 in the Santa Fe.  IIIRC, and correct me if I'm wrong, Toyota will put the same 2.7L I4 in Highlander too.


I did not argue that the most Venza buyers will most likely go for the I4 just the same as most small SUVs and mid-size sedans are sold with I4 engines and the vehicle will sell very well as the majority of buyers don’t care about performance.

All I was saying was that, if I were to buy a Venza, or any other vehicle this size, it would have to be a V6 and the reason is that I believe that with an I4 it would be too sluggish for my taste on a vehicle this heavy.

[Ice]

I think some of you are still writing off the I4 far too early on.  Its not out yet so proper testing hasn't revealed its performance...if its under 10 seconds I think it'll be fine for most people.  Like I said...my parents have an old Caravan with a 3.3L V6 that gets 150hp(ish) that has a similar weight to the Venza and it gets around decently fast.  Never been a real issue.  Its not fast either...but its competent on the highway.  And that thing sucks down gas.  So if the new Venza has a I4 with its 182hp and 182lb/ft of torque and can measure up to a similar level of performance with the rather large fuel economy advantage then it'll be just fine.

Indeed I agree that the V6 is probably the better option for anyone who considers performance to be a real issue.  Even the V6 is pretty good on the fuel economy front. So its a pretty practical option.

I'm am surprised about the Camry SE having VSC (or is that TRAC) that can't be defeated.  My XRS has that as a defeatable option...I just have to hold the button to do it.  Never needed to either...how many of you drive that hard to need such a capability anyways.  I think thats what Toyota is figuring too....cars for the masses.

I wonder if the 2010 Camry will have defeatable VSC/TRAC.

[ArticSteve]

All I was saying was that, if I were to buy a Venza, or any other vehicle this size, it would have to be a V6 and the reason is that I believe that with an I4 it would be too sluggish for my taste on a vehicle this heavy.

The V6 will be much quieter.  The difference between a V6 Camry and a I4 Camry in terms of engine noise is pronounced.

[Dante]

I think some of you are still writing off the I4 far too early on.  Its not out yet so proper testing hasn't revealed its performance...if its under 10 seconds I think it'll be fine for most people.

The Edmunds test linked few posts above if for an I4 Venza. It posted 9.3 sec to 60 mph.
I personally agree it is fine for most people.

I'm am surprised about the Camry SE having VSC (or is that TRAC) that can't be defeated.  My XRS has that as a defeatable option...I just have to hold the button to do it.  Never needed to either...how many of you drive that hard to need such a capability anyways.  I think thats what Toyota is figuring too....cars for the masses.

I wonder if the 2010 Camry will have defeatable VSC/TRAC.

It's not about driving hard, but about being able to disable it when you get stuck on the snow for example.

I think Toyota's approach is/was not to have a switch until recently. I know RAV4 did not have one until the mid-cycle facelift (2009).
This was an issue for people driving in snow because there were quite a few reports of people getting stuck on few inches of snow because the VDC would not allow tire spin at all. Later, they found a cumbersome (some 10 steps or so) way to temporarily turn off the VDC and they kept a print out in their cars for this situations. A long thread about this is available on rav4world.com forum.
VDC on/off button is a natural choice IMO. I have one in my car and although I never used it so far in two years of ownership, I'm glad it's there.

[EV Dan]

http://onlocation.consumerreports.org/applications/CROSHOWS/AutoShows/New-Car-Preview/2-Model.asp?Ctype=Wagons&ID=717

not sure if its been posted. It seems the experts agree with me on the classification.    watch the video.

[rrocket]

http://onlocation.consumerreports.org/applications/CROSHOWS/AutoShows/New-Car-Preview/2-Model.asp?Ctype=Wagons&ID=717

not sure if its been posted. It seems the experts agree with me on the classification.    watch the video.

Cliff notes for us who can't hear/see the vid??

[EV Dan]

http://onlocation.consumerreports.org/applications/CROSHOWS/AutoShows/New-Car-Preview/2-Model.asp?Ctype=Wagons&ID=717

not sure if its been posted. It seems the experts agree with me on the classification.    watch the video.

Cliff notes for us who can't hear/see the vid??

I have a short mem. span and my typing sucks 
all ya need is this:

http://www.adobe.com/products/

adobe flash player 10. I use firefox 2.

[rrocket]

Sigh. 


My PC does not have sound at work here...and I'm on dial-up at home.  So yea..thanks for the video that's useless to me...LOL


Cliffs??  (please?)

[ArticSteve]

The "experts"  is actually one guy at the 2008 Detroit auto show saying this:  "basically it combines the best attributes of a large sedan, SUV, and a station wagon".

[Ice]

I think some of you are still writing off the I4 far too early on.  Its not out yet so proper testing hasn't revealed its performance...if its under 10 seconds I think it'll be fine for most people.

The Edmunds test linked few posts above if for an I4 Venza. It posted 9.3 sec to 60 mph.
I personally agree it is fine for most people.

I'm am surprised about the Camry SE having VSC (or is that TRAC) that can't be defeated.  My XRS has that as a defeatable option...I just have to hold the button to do it.  Never needed to either...how many of you drive that hard to need such a capability anyways.  I think thats what Toyota is figuring too....cars for the masses.

I wonder if the 2010 Camry will have defeatable VSC/TRAC.

It's not about driving hard, but about being able to disable it when you get stuck on the snow for example.

I think Toyota's approach is/was not to have a switch until recently. I know RAV4 did not have one until the mid-cycle facelift (2009).
This was an issue for people driving in snow because there were quite a few reports of people getting stuck on few inches of snow because the VDC would not allow tire spin at all. Later, they found a cumbersome (some 10 steps or so) way to temporarily turn off the VDC and they kept a print out in their cars for this situations. A long thread about this is available on rav4world.com forum.
VDC on/off button is a natural choice IMO. I have one in my car and although I never used it so far in two years of ownership, I'm glad it's there.

Missed that...thank you!  So 9.3 is quite alright for the average buyer.  A few have dismissed the I4 as useless but that seems like a respectable number.  It'll be fine.

[tpl]

Seems to me that for Mr and Mrs everybody  the 45-70 mph acceleration is a more useful number. IF Toyota have the gearing in the transmission right a heavy foot should get the engine... which is plenty big for an I4 ... into the fat bit of its torque curve and be rapid enough to pass safely on a 2 laner.

I think the correct answer is a small  turbo  on the I4 not a V6.  IMHO cars like the Venza would also be better off with a diesel.  I wonder if it has one in other markets.

[ggweci]

IMHO cars like the Venza would also be better off with a diesel.  I wonder if it has one in other markets.

I believe the Venza is NA only.

[Honda Owner]

They will not care about HP, 1/4 mile times
It about how much they can fit when they go to Costco

That is exactly correct. Most customers could not care less. Nobody buys a Camry to autocross it.

I have driven both the V-6 and I-4 Camry. The more powerful car is certainly more fun but it is not, in my opinion, worth the extra price of admission and keeping it on the road.

[ovr50]

Saw my first Venza in the real today at local Toyota dealers. A Black one with grey leather, and the Touring Package (which is virtually everything except Navi). It was stickered at less than $40K. The car looks pretty darn good in real life. It was also sold, as were the 2 others in the back getting prepped. IMO it looks better in the real than in the pix.