Topic: 2009 Venza pricing for Canada released

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I'll repeat just for you Steve:

Buick Lacrosse (Allure) Super

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.0 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 28.1 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 101 mph

 

I assumed we were discussing cars that ppl actually bought and were market sustainable.  Not junk.

They put the same motor in the Impala and the OPP bought a few and then learned they were crap.  Have never seen a black and white OPP Impala since.

The four-holer Super is stuffed with the 5.3-liter LS4 V-8 mated to a could-have-another-cog-or-three four-speed automatic transmission   . The 300 horsepower and the 323 pound-feet of torque

Those are pitiful numbers for a "high performance" 5.3 V8.

Missed your nap and cocoa this afternoon did we?

They put in the engine tuned to provide the numbers required. It gets the same mileage as the 3.5L Camry too. According to CR its reliability with the V8 is above average, still better than the recently improved V6 Camry's "average".

Don't be hatin'.

[KRS]

I assumed we were discussing cars that ppl actually bought and were market sustainable.

  I'd have to call Shenanigan's on that statement. You knew he was talking Buick and who buys a Buick. Theres no way you can claim you thought he was talking a car people actually bought. 

 

[ArticSteve]

As for handling, the Mazda6's added girth and heft obviously penalised its nimbleness. However, it still feels a little more dynamic and playful than the Accord and way more than the soft Camry.

http://www.auto123.com/en/mazda/6/2009/review?carid=1093900403&artid=102935&year=2009&printable=1&make=mazda&model=6

Great example that illustrates that many car reviewers are amateurs.  In this instance, the reviewer forgets Camry comes in a SE version.  A version that most Camry drivers would find completely unacceptable because of the stiff and somewhat bumpy ride.  Consequently, the Mazda 6 might be better than he reports because the dude is one lazy *ss.

[ArticSteve]

Missed your nap and cocoa this afternoon did we?

They put in the engine tuned to provide the numbers required. It gets the same mileage as the 3.5L Camry too. According to CR its reliability with the V8 is above average, still better than the recently improved V6 Camry's "average".

Don't be hatin'.

They put in the engine tuned to provide the numbers required   

Man, that really sounds like Barrie. 

According to CR its reliability with the V8 is above average, still better than the recently improved V6 Camry's "average".

What .... for the first 6 months. 

What's the depreciation on a V8 Allure in the first year I wonder    50% I'm thinking. 

[rrocket]

Great example that illustrates that many car reviewers are amateurs.  In this instance, the reviewer forgets Camry comes in a SE version.  A version that most Camry drivers would find completely unacceptable because of the stiff and somewhat bumpy ride.  Consequently, the Mazda 6 might be better than he reports because the dude is one lazy *ss.

It wasn't apples to apples.  But my bigger issue was there was no instrumented testing numbers....so who knows. 

FWIW, GM makes good V8s, and I have no fears that the V8 itself would run forever.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/performance_files_tested_by_c_d/2007_toyota_camry_se_road_test

So, the SE trim level is clearly a big deal on a model that has a reputation as America's bestselling family runabout. But here's the tantalizing paradox: You can't get at the real fun. The car's stability-and-traction-control system steps in at the slightest hint of tire scrub and slows everything down. It won't tolerate an aggressive launch, and if you snap-shift the car into second gear and cop a tiny chirp of wheelspin, it slaps your wrist with a half-second of nothing. And it can't be switched off.

Oh, all those fine suspension tweaks work great in the hills. The grip is pretty good at 0.82 g on the skidpad — where you ride the razor's edge between slip angles to stop Mr. Party Pooper from slowing you down — and the firm chassis discipline controls ride motions admirably. But again, the car's new athletic allure teases the driver with responsive steering, resolute roll control, and easily read contact patches without really allowing him to exploit the car as far as he might.

Not much point in having a decent chassis if the car gets the vapours when things get exciting.

They also said that 84% of Camry's are four cylinder, so about as many people spring for the V6 Camry as sprung for the Lucern Super.

[rrocket]

Not much point in having a decent chassis if the car gets the vapours when things get exciting.

They also said that 84% of Camry's are four cylinder, so about as many people spring for the V6 Camry as sprung for the Lucern Super.

The point remains.  It handles as well (or better) than it's direct competition...but ONLY in SE guise. 

No surprise the 4 banger sells so well.  Can get the 4 banger with stick, leather and SE package, which is nice.

Toyota sells a bazillion Camry.  I'm curious what the sales are for that Buick on a yearly basis?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Toyota sells a bazillion Camry.  I'm curious what the sales are for that Buick on a yearly basis?

I'm sure I've seen one. Can't remember....

[rrocket]

^^^^You don't kid, either.  In Windsor...Land of the Domestic Cars....I can't recall even seeing one of those cars.....LOL

[ArticSteve]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/performance_files_tested_by_c_d/2007_toyota_camry_se_road_test

So, the SE trim level is clearly a big deal on a model that has a reputation as America's bestselling family runabout. But here's the tantalizing paradox: You can't get at the real fun. The car's stability-and-traction-control system steps in at the slightest hint of tire scrub and slows everything down. It won't tolerate an aggressive launch, and if you snap-shift the car into second gear and cop a tiny chirp of wheelspin, it slaps your wrist with a half-second of nothing. And it can't be switched off.

Oh, all those fine suspension tweaks work great in the hills. The grip is pretty good at 0.82 g on the skidpad — where you ride the razor's edge between slip angles to stop Mr. Party Pooper from slowing you down — and the firm chassis discipline controls ride motions admirably. But again, the car's new athletic allure teases the driver with responsive steering, resolute roll control, and easily read contact patches without really allowing him to exploit the car as far as he might.

Not much point in having a decent chassis if the car gets the vapours when things get exciting.

They also said that 84% of Camry's are four cylinder, so about as many people spring for the V6 Camry as sprung for the Lucern Super.

And it can't be switched off.   True, providing it's picked as an OPTION   


Not much point in having a decent chassis if the car gets the vapours when things get exciting.

I'll assume you're just lazy  and that you don't try and cherry pick information that is misleading. 

You quoted a US review. 2009  USA Camry SE V6 has VSC/Tracs as an option.  Canadian version is standard, but can be defeated with a Toyota programer, but Canadian customers don't really care if they have it. 

[ArticSteve]

Toyota sells a bazillion Camry.  I'm curious what the sales are for that Buick on a yearly basis?

Unfortunately no details

Allure: 35,422
Lucerne:  50,777
Camry: 411,342

period ending November 08 (USA sales)

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,49080.160.html

I have seen one "4 hole" Lucerene in silver.   Hopefully for the user it was a lease.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

So you have a choice between traction/stability control and entertainment? Funny how other manufacturers allow both.

Of course this is the new Toyota: "Oh, what a *yawn* feeling."

[ArticSteve]

Funny how other manufacturers allow both.

Name a few specific models in same category.

On Tundras you have the option of disabling VSC.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Funny how other manufacturers allow both.

Name a few specific models in same category.

On Tundras you have the option of disabling VSC.

Accord, Mazda6, Fusion, all allow a fair bit of amusement to be had before the stability program kills the fun. The Toyota system jumps in far too aggressively.

Most Chrysler products have a switch that shuts down ESP. Lots of tail out foolishness in Regina a few years ago.

[ArticSteve]

Accord, Mazda6, Fusion, all allow a fair bit of amusement to be had before the stability program kills the fun. The Toyota system jumps in far too aggressively.

and that's from personal experience. 

So I assume that Accord, Mazada, Fusion ESPs canNOT be turned off.  So no difference to the Camry setup.

But the real issue is who buys one of these vehicles for aggressive driving?  What I see is that many of the V6 Camrys are leased.  PPl like the added power, don't mind paying the extra gas costs, but don't wanna get stuck with trying to sell a V6 when gas is $5. a gallon.

Hence the beauty of the I4 Venza. 

[rrocket]

My Echo doesn't have ESP...so it's a rocking sports car!!   


This thread has been derailed.....

[ArticSteve]

Nope.  I put it back on track with my closing comment:

Hence the beauty of the I4 Venza.   


 

[Dante]

LOL Steve, what does it mean "TOYOTA power"? Is there something magic about the power-to-weight ratio in Toyota vehicles that defeats the physics laws?

Indeed Sir!  

I'll explain it this way.  1995 BMW 525i 5 speed.  Without looking it up, I think that I6 had only about 190 HP.  But that was one fast car.  Same thing applies to the older Porsches.  

Steve, without looking up the numbers, I bet none of the models you mentioned had 3,740 lbs.

In an under 3,000 lbs car, Venza's I4 could be a whole lot of fun (throw in a good chassis, suspension, steering, etc.).

[rrocket]

True.  But read this review from Edmunds with the I4.  They were not crying about power, and they had the vehicle for 1,000 miles.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=137526

[Dante]

True.  But read this review from Edmunds with the I4.  They were not crying about power, and they had the vehicle for 1,000 miles.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=137526

Exactly what I thought… My guess was that 0-60 mph would be between 9.0 and 9.5 sec. going by the power-to-weight ratio. I think its performance would be adequate for most buyers, in the same way the CRV is for a compact SUV.
However, loaded, uphill, under acceleration, it would feel rather sluggish I think.
On the other hand, the V6 should be excellent especially when the fuel economy penalty is minimal.