Topic: Nissan 370Z vs. Cayman S

[captain_ron]

Too bad the streets are going to be saturated with teenagers driving RHD Supras.  Tyeeimports here in Vancouver Island already has like 25+ for sale, starting as low as $9,999!  I wonder why Supras are so cheap in Japan, yet the NSX is the same price as here.  That is kind of weird, cause isn't the Supra like the best sports car ever? 

[Mitlov]

I think the 3.7L VQ sounds AMAZING.  If you have kitchen appliances that sound like a G37 or 370Z, you kitchen appliances must be the sexist kitchen appliances on the planet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHODADHKuA
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=136547#

[rrocket]

Too bad the streets are going to be saturated with teenagers driving RHD Supras.  Tyeeimports here in Vancouver Island already has like 25+ for sale, starting as low as $9,999!  I wonder why Supras are so cheap in Japan, yet the NSX is the same price as here.  That is kind of weird, cause isn't the Supra like the best sports car ever? 

Many of these RHD vehicles from Japan are poorly maintained.  That's why they get sold.  Japan has VERY strict road rules, and every 2 years the car has to be inspected.  This costs about 200,000 yen for the mechanic costs only ($2,500 CDN about).  Then ANYTHING that is broken must be repaired...and even if it isn't broken..just slightly worn, it has to be replaced!!  Once the car get modded, it can be too costly to get back to stock working condition..so they get sold.

The JDM Supra also have less performance than the USDM one.  Smaller turbos with some ceramic guts.  The ceramic turbos are prone to breakage.  Oh...and many of them don't have leather interior, heated seats and stuff like that.  Owner's of USDM Supras in Canada are already talking smack to those who have bought a JDM Supra calling them poseurs and slagging them for not owning the "real" Supra, only the cheaper wannabe car.  Shrugs.

And the NSX is truly a special car.  It's status in Japan is cult-like...much like it is here....

[rrocket]

I think the 3.7L VQ sounds AMAZING.  If you have kitchen appliances that sound like a G37 or 370Z, you kitchen appliances must be the sexist kitchen appliances on the planet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHODADHKuA
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=136547#

From what I read you can't hear it on the INSIDE which is the best part of owning a sexy engine..being able to hear it while driving.  Nothing a good exhaust and intake won't fix. 

[Mitlov]

From what I read you can't hear it on the INSIDE which is the best part of owning a sexy engine..being able to hear it while driving.  Nothing a good exhaust and intake won't fix. 

The Youtube clip of the G37 has the sound both from the outside and the inside.  The noise is noticeably different inside than out, but I like both.

[rrocket]

^^Yea, I know.  But it needs the volume turned up a bit, that's all...

[Jameel]

That's great value for the money. I was surprised to read the Nissan was going after the Cayman S.
I'm glad to see Nissan made the 370Z lighter than the 350Z, it's rare to see a new model being lighter than a previous generation. I applaud Nissan for this.  Although I am a bit disappointed the exhaust note is not as good as the 350Z.

I'm still up in the air about the Cayman looks, when it first came out I hated the looks. Then they started to grow on me, now I don't like it again.

It's not teeny to be sure.  But check the stats....this is equivalent to most exotics.

.99G skidpad
60-0 107 feet
slalom 69-72 MPH (depending on test)

So it matches up and exceeds the S2000, Elise, NSX, RX-7, etc....It just doesn't FEEL tossable and teeny like those.

Since my mods, I've had professional instrumented testing done to see how it stacks up.  The numbers are so spectacular I asked Wing if I should post them.  In the end, I decided not to since I thought most everyone would say BS.  So I've kep them to myself....

Rrocket, I wouldn't mind seeing your times?
Well, another reason the Supra TT may not seem as "tossable" as an S2000, Elise, NSX or RX-7 because it's around 3,550lbs.

[Jaeger]

Ahh...sorry, I was unclear.  My point was that for the same cost, a Mitsu Evo will give the same performance as the Z-car.  It seems like the better purchase to me since it's great on the track based on all reports, plus it can be used all year round and will serve as a more practical every day car.  If the argument for the 370Z is that it's a truer sports car than the Evo in that it looks more like a sexy sports coupe and sounds invigorating to drive in addition to the performance, then it fails.  The Porsche (while too much money) at least performs AND has the looks / sounds to be representative of a proper sports car. 

Sorry - just not buying your ever-shifting analysis.  If I were looking for a sports car that offers performance, looks, emotive appeal and value, I'd take the Z in a heartbeat over the Evo.  The Mitsu's performance credentials are solid, but it has the looks of an econo-sedan with tacken-on boy-racer frills.  And surely you're not going to start telling me about its sweet engine note.  You know, that feature that was all-important to you just a few posts ago? The fact that it is a better grocery-getter doesn't make it a better sports car.  By that questionable logic, the Evo is a better sports car than a 911 or a Ferrari F430.  Comparing the Z to the Porsche, the Z plays the value trump card to win that one.

You may well view the Z as a crappy-sounding "failure" and you are entitled to your opinion.  But I don't share it. So far, the automotive press doesn't seem to agree with you, either.  Given that they have a) actually driven the thing and b) are professionals who have a much broader range of experience than you (or me) and have no axe to grind, I'll place just slightly greater weight on their views rather than yours until I have the opportunity to form an experience-based opinion of my own.

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

I think the 3.7L VQ sounds AMAZING.  If you have kitchen appliances that sound like a G37 or 370Z, you kitchen appliances must be the sexist kitchen appliances on the planet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHODADHKuA
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=136547#

Agreed.  I wish my Altima sounded as crappy as that. 

Jaeger

[DriverJeff]

    My "ever-shifting analysis" isn't at all.  You're right, I haven't driven the car, and certainly I would like to -- and indeed my opinions could change after the fact.  I don't expect everyone will agree with my sentiments, it's simply that I don't necessarily agree with the articles that are suggesting the new Z-car is such an incredible sports machine especially due to its value.  A good car, sure... but there are other machines that perform as well for the same bucks.  I just don't see what all the fuss is about.   Even a fairly pedestrian (and cheaper) WRX 265 will beat it in acceleration and haul a load of cargo through a snow storm whilst doing so.   

Let me reiterate my position or "analysis" once more since you still don't seem to understand:

a)  If one is to make the sacrifices required by a proper sports car (ie. low ground clearance, limited cargo and passenger space), it should offer something more than other sporty cars that don't make these concessions.  In my opinion, these little extras should play on the emotional -- sexy styling, musical engine/ exhaust note -- or the performance side of things.  By what I've read and seen in the pictures, the 370Z does not do this any better than a comparably priced Evo.  They both apparently sound rather uninspiring and perform equally well.  The Evo, however, has the benefit of also offering greater practicality than the Z which makes more sense to me. 

b)  I'm not saying performance doesn't matter.  But when comparing Z to Evo or even the Cayman, it's a wash.  They're all expected to perform really well -- and do.  This brings me back to the desire to have a musical engine / exhaust note and sexy styling if I have to suffer with not having a four-seasons / four-passenger machine.

c)  FWIW, I love the sound of the 350Z, but all reports I've read about the 3.7L engine state that it's "rough" and "course" and doesn't sound as nice as the old VQ engines, nor as nice as some of the competitors that Nissan has chosen (such as Porsche). 

d)  Styling is subjective of course, but I think the Z looks really stumpy in pictures and has nowhere near the grace and fluidity of design that something like the Cayman does.  Neither the Evo, nor the Z are visually attractive to me, but at least the Evo offers utility for its lack of aesthetic appeal. 

Is it clearer now?

PS... Mitlov, forgive me if I don't use my 2" computer speakers to try to get a true sense of what the engine/exhaust sounds like in real life.   

[safristi]

  sounds lovely.......................... ...............

[Jaeger]

Yes, your positions are very clear.  I just don't buy any of them.

Jaeger

[Mitlov]

I just don't see what all the fuss is about.   Even a fairly pedestrian (and cheaper) WRX 265 will beat it in acceleration and haul a load of cargo through a snow storm whilst doing so.   

Also true: A V6 Camry will beat a Miata in acceleration and can haul a load of cargo through a snow storm whilst doing so.  Does this mean that the Miata is not deserving of the "fuss" it receives? 

PS... Mitlov, forgive me if I don't use my 2" computer speakers to try to get a true sense of what the engine/exhaust sounds like in real life.   

Not my fault you don't have external speakers and a subwoofer    It's not real life, sure, but it'll give you a hell of a lot better of an idea than reading a car review describe an exhaust note in words...and that's what you're relying upon in your paragraph (c).

[quadzilla]

Not my fault you don't have external speakers and a subwoofer   

Now that one of the most over used words if I've ever heard one. Maybe I'm wrong but very few people have anything close to a subwoofer connected to their computer. 

I'm with GD on this one. Since I have never driven one I can only go with what I read and from past experience, I usually find what was written is usually fan based for advertising $$$$. I'm sure both cars feel different to those that can tell and I'm guessing here that the Porsche would win (almost) every time if it wasn't your money. I'm not saying the new Z isn't great as it probably is. But this nothing new. I remember when the new RX-7 came out and they called it the 911 killer.

I remember watching the video Nissan made of the 350Z running through Prague and I always thought something was missing in the exhaust when they would let off the throttle, it just didn't have any bite left. Now that video didn't make me have goose bumps, then not much else would.

[Mitlov]

Not my fault you don't have external speakers and a subwoofer   

Now that one of the most over used words if I've ever heard one. Maybe I'm wrong but very few people have anything close to a subwoofer connected to their computer. 

What do you call a twelve-inch cube with a big speaker on it that sits under my desk (as opposed to the two nine-inch-tall rectangular speakers that sit on the desk) and makes the room shake with bass when I turn it up?  I call it a subwoofer, and so does the manufacturer.  Really adds some nice flavor to games like Call of Duty.

[DriverJeff]

I just don't see what all the fuss is about.   Even a fairly pedestrian (and cheaper) WRX 265 will beat it in acceleration and haul a load of cargo through a snow storm whilst doing so.   

Also true: A V6 Camry will beat a Miata in acceleration and can haul a load of cargo through a snow storm whilst doing so.  Does this mean that the Miata is not deserving of the "fuss" it receives? 

Thank you, Mitlov, you're helping to illustrate my point.  The concessions one makes in Miata-ownership versus a Camry are compensated for by the emotional appeal -- the sounds and styling of the car versus the bland, quiet and pedestrian Camry.  The ability to row one's own gears in the also adds to the emotional experience as does the top-down, open-air, wind-in-your-hair driving experience.  Again, the 370Z apparently doesn't offer that same compensation versus its more practical competitors.

Incidentally, for me personally, the cheaper insurance, cheaper fuel costs and better handlling and braking performance also contributed to the choice of the MX5 over something like a Camry V6.  

Anyway, as I look toward replacing the MX5 with something more practical, I guess I just put greater emphasis on these points, especially if I can achieve the same performance milestones set by the so-called 'real' sports cars like the Z.  

Jaeger, I'm glad you understand and I don't expect to convert you.  Sometimes I have irrational, emotional attachments to BMWs and Porsches that blind me a bit too.  

By the way... I still think the GT-R is hideous too.  

[quadzilla]

Not my fault you don't have external speakers and a subwoofer   

Now that one of the most over used words if I've ever heard one. Maybe I'm wrong but very few people have anything close to a subwoofer connected to their computer. 

What do you call a twelve-inch cube with a big speaker on it that sits under my desk (as opposed to the two nine-inch-tall rectangular speakers that sit on the desk) and makes the room shake with bass when I turn it up?  I call it a subwoofer, and so does the manufacturer.  Really adds some nice flavor to games like Call of Duty.

And Toyota put SPORT on a lot of the cars and trucks.   

Make and model # please?  Lots of people call speakers that produce bass subwoofers but that does not mean they are. Subs should go below 25HZ flat.

[Jaeger]

Mitlov, you clearly fail to appreciate the significance of cargo-hauling-through-snowstorm ability to the sports car buyer.  Those Miata drivers are psotively green with envy as they cast covetous glances at the Camry.

Jaeger

[DriverJeff]

Mitlov, you clearly fail to appreciate the significance of cargo-hauling-through-snowstorm ability to the sports car buyer.  Those Miata drivers are psotively green with envy as they cast covetous glances at the Camry.

Jaeger

Hey, not everyone can be practical enough to see the benefits of a car that is beyond a single-purpose.  Keeps Lotus in business after all. 

[Jaeger]

Oh please, do let us have an in-depth hair-splitting navel-gazing discussion on the precise definition of a subwoofer.  I'd much rather talk about that than silly old cars.

GD - I don't have an emotional attachment to the new Z (strong or otherwise) - I just think it looks like a very promising overall package.  And from the videos, I'd say it sounds terrific.  The Evo really doesn't float my boat at all - which I'm sure matters not a bit to its legions of fans.  Some describe the Cayman as hideous.  Me, I reserve that term almost exclusively for the new TL. To each his own.

Jaeger