Topic: Nissan 370Z vs. Cayman S

[rrocket]

Wow...pretty much say they are equal.  Nissan is really doing great work using top flight cars as their benchmarks...and making thier cars as good, or better....

http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive_Versus_Nissan_370Z_vs_Porsche_Cayman_S.shtml

[vdk]

370z vs 135i

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=137806


Guess who wins

[DriverJeff]

Neat article against the Cayman, Rrocket.  Still though, to me it's like comparing a Timex to a Tag Heuer.  Both will get the job done, but I know which one I choose to wear each day. 

And of course, I have to ask:  how long until it's discovered that the SyncroRev thing actually causes transmission meltdowns... and Nissan says it's not covered under warranty?   

[rrocket]

370z vs 135i

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=137806


Guess who wins

370Z FTW

[rrocket]

Neat article against the Cayman, Rrocket.  Still though, to me it's like comparing a Timex to a Tag Heuer.  Both will get the job done, but I know which one I choose to wear each day. 

And of course, I have to ask:  how long until it's discovered that the SyncroRev thing actually causes transmission meltdowns... and Nissan says it's not covered under warranty?   

If I was paying for it...I'd take the 370Z.  The Cayman S is just too much money (almost double!!  ).....for not being a way, way better car....

[DriverJeff]

Neat article against the Cayman, Rrocket.  Still though, to me it's like comparing a Timex to a Tag Heuer.  Both will get the job done, but I know which one I choose to wear each day. 

And of course, I have to ask:  how long until it's discovered that the SyncroRev thing actually causes transmission meltdowns... and Nissan says it's not covered under warranty?   

If I was paying for it...I'd take the 370Z.  The Cayman S is just too much money (almost double!!  ).....for not being a way, way better car....

Truthfully, I agree.... the initial reports are certainly making the 370Z out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and considering the cost, seems like a hell of a value.  For my own dollars, I'd have a hard time justifying needing to save an extra $30-40k for the Cayman as well.  However, I've read a few times now how the sounds the Z makes are less than inspiring and to my eye (at least in pictures so far), the styling is a bit of a mess (looks like a 350Z that spent some time in that giant trash compactor from StarWars).  A real sports car should quicken your pulse just by looking at it and shouldn't need a stereo because the engine produces better music than anything on your iPod.  The Cayman does that.  The Z-car apparently does not. 

If all you want is to achieve those performance numbers for $40k Cdn, why not get an Evo GSR?  That way you'd have appliance-like sound effects, Japanese-built quality, amazing road and track performance like the Z, but you'd also have a car you can use comfortably year round and even take more than a single passenger and a duffle bag with you.

[rrocket]

I used to be one of those "who cares what it costs" people.  But since owning my Supra (and realizing I'll never be able to afford a Koeniggsegg)..and having performance, braking and handling that exceeds almost every production supercar, I've changed my tune.  The Supra can do as much, or more than the exotics for less money.  You CAN almost have it all for a fraction of the cost.....and the 370Z is one of those cars it seems. 


(sadly, the Supra only lacks the "to die for" looks.  Not much I can do about that though.....)   

[DriverJeff]

The Supra is insanely fast -- addictive power is an understatement with your beast, however it is definitely not a substitute for an Elise, S2000 or even a Miata or CooperS in terms of a nimble little car that you can throw around on a track.  Perfecting rev-matched down-shifts and man-handling while throwing it, at-the-limit, into a corner is something that a 'real' sports car thrives on... your Supra is more of a muscle car to me.  Nothing wrong with that -- it's truly exhilarating to drive, but it doesn't feel like a sports car to me. 

[Jaeger]

If all you want is a great engine note, buy a CD of any 12 cylinder Ferrari and play it all day long.

That is just rich - categorically dimissing all aspects of performance in favor of engine note.  Definitely my laugh for the day.

Jaeger

[DriverJeff]

If all you want is a great engine note, buy a CD of any 12 cylinder Ferrari and play it all day long.

That is just rich - categorically dimissing all aspects of performance in favor of engine note.  Definitely my laugh for the day.

Jaeger

Don't misunderstand, I'm not categorically dismissing all aspects of performance, but simply stating that for me to give up the practicality of something like an Evo or STI that can achieve the same performance numbers, it better have the emotional appeal that just lights you on fire when you see /hear it..  The 350Z doesn't do that by what I've read  so far.

[rrocket]

It's not teeny to be sure.  But check the stats....this is equivalent to most exotics.

.99G skidpad
60-0 107 feet
slalom 69-72 MPH (depending on test)

So it matches up and exceeds the S2000, Elise, NSX, RX-7, etc....It just doesn't FEEL tossable and teeny like those.

Since my mods, I've had professional instrumented testing done to see how it stacks up.  The numbers are so spectacular I asked Wing if I should post them.  In the end, I decided not to since I thought most everyone would say BS.  So I've kep them to myself....

[DriverJeff]

It's not teeny to be sure.  But check the stats....this is equivalent to most exotics.

.99G skidpad
60-0 107 feet
slalom 69 MPH

Since my mods, I've had professional instrumented testing done to see how it stacks up.  The numbers are so spectacular I asked Wing if I should post them.  In the end, I decided not to since I thought most everyone would say BS.  So I've kep them to myself....

To get your car to where it is now in terms of acceleration, you've made sacrifices to the handling though, haven't you?  Having been fortunate enough to drive your car, you know I can certainly vouch for the jet-like acceleration.

[rrocket]

^^^^No.  I've altered things to make it work.  Wheels, rubber, springs, shocks, brakes, pads.  Oh yea...and a pretty decent weight reduction)


Keep in mind, when you drove it, you were on gooey, bouncy, super-soft sidewall drag radials.  It feels like a boat with those on....


I'll send you a PM with the stats and you tell me what you think.....

[wing]

Rrocket should bring the Supra to shannonville I can flog it around the track and we can see if it is nimble.

No timing that's dangerous I'll just flog it

seriously though it's all about the tires pulling 1.4g's on R's is godly I love it!

EDIT: forget shannville it's a track, let's do calabogie, you can camp at my place.

[Jaeger]

If all you want is a great engine note, buy a CD of any 12 cylinder Ferrari and play it all day long.

That is just rich - categorically dimissing all aspects of performance in favor of engine note.  Definitely my laugh for the day.

Jaeger

Don't misunderstand, I'm not categorically dismissing all aspects of performance, but simply stating that for me to give up the practicality of something like an Evo or STI that can achieve the same performance numbers, it better have the emotional appeal that just lights you on fire when you see /hear it..  The 350Z doesn't do that by what I've read  so far.

I guess we place different emphasis on the importance of engine note to the overall emotionl appeal of a sports car.  Face-peeling acceleration, gut-wrenching braking and neck-twisting lateral g's do a lot more to stoke my emotional coals than the sound of the engine - which, by the way I haven't heard at all except externally in videos.  Have you?  When the automotive press favourably compares a Nissan to a Porsche, you KNOW that Nissan has got it right.  Invariably, when the blue bloods are challenged in terms of performance by a "lesser" brand at a much lower price point, it's defenders will predictably reach for intagibles like "sound" - since there is no way it can be qualitatively measured.  They'll next rhapsodize about how much better their premium auto smells - you know - those upscale pampered cows and such.

I'm not saying those things don't have value.  But I am saying that they don't matter a great deal to me.  And I would be reluctant to dismiss either the aural signature or the emotional appeal of a car I have never driven.  Since these elements are purely subjective, I couldn't really HAVE an opinion absent experience of my own.  What I DO know is that I could find significant emotional appeal - of the broad grinning kind - in the load of cash I would save on the Z versus the Porsche.  Or put another way - I am pretty much tickled silly that I COULD afford this level of performance with Nissan's offering, while the Porsche would likely remain perpetually out of reach.  At least as long as my wife has anything to say about it.

Jaeger

[rrocket]

Rrocket should bring the Supra to shannonville I can flog it around the track and we can see if it is nimble.

No timing that's dangerous I'll just flog it

seriously though it's all about the tires pulling 1.4g's on R's is godly I love it!

EDIT: forget shannville it's a track, let's do calabogie, you can camp at my place.

Yea...it's all about the tires.  No doubt.  I managed 1.02-1.05G on street tires.  Vredesteins Ultracs.  Thats's with 255/45 F and 315/35 back.  The tester said if he was tracking it, he'd do 275's all around in an R compound.  He said it would be wicked.  Though he did say the 255 help the left to right transition with the giants 315's out back.  

Honestly it just doesn't FEEL nimble, IMO.  I know I can get through corners wickedly fast, but when I drive the S2000, it feels RETARDED fast in corners.  Maybe it's the small size...maybe it's cause your a$$ is right on the road?  My car is one of those deceptively fast cars.  It will NEVER feel "flickable" even those it is pretty flickable

And no doubt you are a superior driver to me on road courses.  I only road course 1-5 times per year with my full street set-up.  Next to tires, set-up makes a HUGE difference.  Ahhhh....I remember when I use to be on the road course every weekend from the time it was nice until it was too cold.  And several of those were doing 4 hour endurance races (on bikes).  I'm really lucky I've raced on some tracks it would be near impossible to get on now...Braienerd (closed), Mid-Ohio, Road America are the big ones.

I still like racing.  Drag racing is fun for me.  It's cheap, easy to get there (I just drive there and race!!) and the pay-outs are great.  Road racing does put a smile on my face though!!!

You are welcome to flog my Supra anytime...as long as you keep it out of the barriers!!  

[DriverJeff]

If all you want is a great engine note, buy a CD of any 12 cylinder Ferrari and play it all day long.

That is just rich - categorically dimissing all aspects of performance in favor of engine note.  Definitely my laugh for the day.

Jaeger

Don't misunderstand, I'm not categorically dismissing all aspects of performance, but simply stating that for me to give up the practicality of something like an Evo or STI that can achieve the same performance numbers, it better have the emotional appeal that just lights you on fire when you see /hear it..  The 350Z doesn't do that by what I've read  so far.

I guess we place different emphasis on the importance of engine note to the overall emotionl appeal of a sports car.  Face-peeling acceleration, gut-wrenching braking and neck-twisting lateral g's do a lot more to stoke my emotional coals than the sound of the engine - which, by the way I haven't heard at all except externally in videos.  Have you?  When the automotive press favourably compares a Nissan to a Porsche, you KNOW that Nissan has got it right.  Invariably, when the blue bloods are challenged in terms of performance by a "lesser" brand at a much lower price point, it's defenders will predictably reach for intagibles like "sound" - since there is no way it can be qualitatively measured.  They'll next rhapsodize about how much better their premium auto smells - you know - those upscale pampered cows and such.

I'm not saying those things don't have value.  But I am saying that they don't matter a great deal to me.  And I would be reluctant to dismiss either the aural signature or the emotional appeal of a car I have never driven.  Since these elements are purely subjective, I couldn't really HAVE an opinion absent experience of my own.  What I DO know is that I could find significant emotional appeal - of the broad grinning kind - in the load of cash I would save on the Z versus the Porsche.  Or put another way - I am pretty much tickled silly that I COULD afford this level of performance with Nissan's offering, while the Porsche would likely remain perpetually out of reach.  At least as long as my wife has anything to say about it.

Jaeger

Ahh...sorry, I was unclear.  My point was that for the same cost, a Mitsu Evo will give the same performance as the Z-car.  It seems like the better purchase to me since it's great on the track based on all reports, plus it can be used all year round and will serve as a more practical every day car.  If the argument for the 370Z is that it's a truer sports car than the Evo in that it looks more like a sexy sports coupe and sounds invigorating to drive in addition to the performance, then it fails.  The Porsche (while too much money) at least performs AND has the looks / sounds to be representative of a proper sports car. 

[rrocket]

Yea..but the Miata doesn't sound...or some might say look like a sports car....but it is a purer sports car than most...

[DriverJeff]

Yea..but the Miata doesn't sound...or some might say look like a sports car....but it is a purer sports car than most...

Nobody's spouting off about the Miata being the best thing since sliced bread either.  Despite it handling and braking like a car $20k higher (S2000), Mazda's not out there drawing parallels.  For what it's worth, I think the MX-5 actually sounds decent -- snorty little thing, and truly sporty.  I don't think anyone's saying the MX-5 is any better than the MazdaSpeed3 or a Mustang, whereas the reports are suggesting that the 370Z is the greatest thing for the cost.  I still think an Evo makes more sense.

[rrocket]

^^^^No...but it compares very favorably to other drop top sporty cars (that cost way more)...yet might lack some of the character issue you are flogging the 370Z for....