Author Topic: 2010 Prius?  (Read 15464 times)

Offline Serniter

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 09:48:20 pm »
The Prius is great when usage is going to be mainly city with an occasional highway. Would work for me just fine, but can see it not being appropriate for a large number of NA commutes.

What's funny about using the 1.8 engine? More power? Relatively, it just may be more powerful :)

Offline Ice

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 09:58:07 pm »
The Prius is great when usage is going to be mainly city with an occasional highway. Would work for me just fine, but can see it not being appropriate for a large number of NA commutes.

What's funny about using the 1.8 engine? More power? Relatively, it just may be more powerful :)
Yeah no idea whats so funny.  The new 1.8L in the Corolla and the Scion xA is actually a really frugal engine.  The Corolla 1.8L for 2009 is getting some great fuel economy numbers in real world usage.  Its not the most powerful but compared to the Prius' current engine it has allot more heft.  So combine that with the electric assist...I think its a good deal provided they are able to improve the fuel economy.

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2008, 10:35:53 pm »
  However, driving it at 130 across Toronto on the 401 would also likely garner fuel economy only slightly better (if that!) than the M3 at the same (relaxed) pace too. 


Are you kidding me??  A Prius is rated at 45 MPG (5.2L/100km) and an M3 20 MPG (11.75L/100km).  You have to be kidding me if you think a Prius will use twice the fuel running at 130km/h.  My POS Echo gets nearly 50MPG at 130 km/h and I don't think it's as efficient a car at highway speeds as a Prius.

In normal driving (including 130 km/h highway speeds), an M3 will NEVER even approach the economy of a Prius.  Ever.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline EV Dan

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2008, 11:00:40 pm »
"Are you also suggesting that Clarkson is off the mark in his point about the significantly more (earth-destroying) resources required to mine the nickel for the batteries and transporting and processing them all around the world.  I wonder how many more resources it costs to actually produce a Prius than a "less environmentally-friendly car"

If thats all it is going to be, just another hybrid with a bigger (for some reason) engine then I would say its a solid step backwards for Toyota and that really shows how they care about the environment - filming green adds to keep up the appearances. I suspect that maybe they will get a few % better mileage, likely because of smarter fuel injection/ valve timing. Thats not moving forward, that pathetic.
What they should have done had they cared one bit is add a bigger, preferably Li-ion battery (which would also be lighter per kWh), bigger motor, just sufficient for brisk city maneuvering and, you guessed, a friggin' electric cord, so that you would be able to get around for shopping, soccer and school pick ups and drop offs without a drop of gas, for the first 20 miles at least, which is doable for Toyota with their enormous R&D budget.

As for the above comment, like I said a few times before, most of things human-made are dangerous for the environment. Prius batts are maybe 10% of the cars weight and are hardly much more dangerous to make than the rest of it. Following this logic we shouldn't be building wind turbines, PV cells or reflectors or even bicycles for that matter. There's been countless studies, but the way I see it one or so pound of nickel (or lithium) for the lifespan (10 years) of the car will likely outweigh hundreds of barrels if not more of oil saved (and close to that equivalent of energy wasted to refine/deliver it to the tank) with improved fuel efficiency.
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach the man to fish and he wakes you up at 5 in the morning.

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2008, 11:06:33 pm »
  However, driving it at 130 across Toronto on the 401 would also likely garner fuel economy only slightly better (if that!) than the M3 at the same (relaxed) pace too. 


Are you kidding me??  A Prius is rated at 45 MPG (5.2L/100km) and an M3 20 MPG (11.75L/100km).  You have to be kidding me if you think a Prius will use twice the fuel running at 130km/h.  My POS Echo gets nearly 50MPG at 130 km/h and I don't think it's as efficient a car at highway speeds as a Prius.

In normal driving (including 130 km/h highway speeds), an M3 will NEVER even approach the economy of a Prius.  Ever.

The M3 got better fuel economy when driven quickly around a twisty route, the Prius had to be thrashed to get the same time, burning more fuel in the process.


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Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2008, 11:10:53 pm »
"Are you also suggesting that Clarkson is off the mark in his point about the significantly more (earth-destroying) resources required to mine the nickel for the batteries and transporting and processing them all around the world.  I wonder how many more resources it costs to actually produce a Prius than a "less environmentally-friendly car"

If thats all it is going to be, just another hybrid with a bigger (for some reason) engine then I would say its a solid step backwards for Toyota and that really shows how they care about the environment - filming green adds to keep up the appearances. I suspect that maybe they will get a few % better mileage, likely because of smarter fuel injection/ valve timing. Thats not moving forward, that pathetic.
What they should have done had they cared one bit is add a bigger, preferably Li-ion battery (which would also be lighter per kWh), bigger motor, just sufficient for brisk city maneuvering and, you guessed, a friggin' electric cord, so that you would be able to get around for shopping, soccer and school pick ups and drop offs without a drop of gas, for the first 20 miles at least, which is doable for Toyota with their enormous R&D budget.

As for the above comment, like I said a few times before, most of things human-made are dangerous for the environment. Prius batts are maybe 10% of the cars weight and are hardly much more dangerous to make than the rest of it. Following this logic we shouldn't be building wind turbines, PV cells or reflectors or even bicycles for that matter. There's been countless studies, but the way I see it one or so pound of nickel (or lithium) for the lifespan (10 years) of the car will likely outweigh hundreds of barrels if not more of oil saved (and close to that equivalent of energy wasted to refine/deliver it to the tank) with improved fuel efficiency.

Toyota is already road testing plug-in versions of the Prius (set to go on sale in 2010), and there is discussion of selling both the Hybrid AND EV Prius models side by side.  Plus the Prius plug-in only requires 3-4 hours to charge on a standard plug and 1-1.5 hours on a 220V hook-up.  I don't see Toyota changing too much for the best selling hybrid.  Afterall, the hybrid version has sold more than 1 million copies thus far.  

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2008, 11:13:00 pm »
  However, driving it at 130 across Toronto on the 401 would also likely garner fuel economy only slightly better (if that!) than the M3 at the same (relaxed) pace too. 


Are you kidding me??  A Prius is rated at 45 MPG (5.2L/100km) and an M3 20 MPG (11.75L/100km).  You have to be kidding me if you think a Prius will use twice the fuel running at 130km/h.  My POS Echo gets nearly 50MPG at 130 km/h and I don't think it's as efficient a car at highway speeds as a Prius.

In normal driving (including 130 km/h highway speeds), an M3 will NEVER even approach the economy of a Prius.  Ever.

The M3 got better fuel economy when driven quickly around a twisty route, the Prius had to be thrashed to get the same time, burning more fuel in the process.

Again...not normal operating use for a Prius.  Drive from TO to Windsor in either car...at 130km/h...and the Prius will have the better economy (by far).  Even without the use of the electric motor, the car is still just an econo-box with a teeny engine.

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2008, 11:14:51 pm »
  However, driving it at 130 across Toronto on the 401 would also likely garner fuel economy only slightly better (if that!) than the M3 at the same (relaxed) pace too. 


Are you kidding me??  A Prius is rated at 45 MPG (5.2L/100km) and an M3 20 MPG (11.75L/100km).  You have to be kidding me if you think a Prius will use twice the fuel running at 130km/h.  My POS Echo gets nearly 50MPG at 130 km/h and I don't think it's as efficient a car at highway speeds as a Prius.

In normal driving (including 130 km/h highway speeds), an M3 will NEVER even approach the economy of a Prius.  Ever.

The M3 got better fuel economy when driven quickly around a twisty route, the Prius had to be thrashed to get the same time, burning more fuel in the process.

Again...not normal operating use for a Prius.  Drive from TO to Windsor in either car...at 130km/h...and the Prius will have the better economy (by far).  Even without the use of the electric motor, the car is still just an econo-box with a teeny engine.

It would be my normal operating use.

Offline EV Dan

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2008, 11:18:32 pm »
"Are you also suggesting that Clarkson is off the mark in his point about the significantly more (earth-destroying) resources required to mine the nickel for the batteries and transporting and processing them all around the world.  I wonder how many more resources it costs to actually produce a Prius than a "less environmentally-friendly car"

If thats all it is going to be, just another hybrid with a bigger (for some reason) engine then I would say its a solid step backwards for Toyota and that really shows how they care about the environment - filming green adds to keep up the appearances. I suspect that maybe they will get a few % better mileage, likely because of smarter fuel injection/ valve timing. Thats not moving forward, that pathetic.
What they should have done had they cared one bit is add a bigger, preferably Li-ion battery (which would also be lighter per kWh), bigger motor, just sufficient for brisk city maneuvering and, you guessed, a friggin' electric cord, so that you would be able to get around for shopping, soccer and school pick ups and drop offs without a drop of gas, for the first 20 miles at least, which is doable for Toyota with their enormous R&D budget.

As for the above comment, like I said a few times before, most of things human-made are dangerous for the environment. Prius batts are maybe 10% of the cars weight and are hardly much more dangerous to make than the rest of it. Following this logic we shouldn't be building wind turbines, PV cells or reflectors or even bicycles for that matter. There's been countless studies, but the way I see it one or so pound of nickel (or lithium) for the lifespan (10 years) of the car will likely outweigh hundreds of barrels if not more of oil saved (and close to that equivalent of energy wasted to refine/deliver it to the tank) with improved fuel efficiency.

Toyota is already road testing plug-in versions of the Prius (set to go on sale in 2010), and there is discussion of selling both the Hybrid AND EV Prius models side by side.  Plus the Prius plug-in only requires 3-4 hours to charge on a standard plug and 1-1.5 hours on a 220V hook-up.  I don't see Toyota changing too much for the best selling hybrid.  Afterall, the hybrid version has sold more than 1 million copies thus far. 

My point exactly. Its not greenness its the profit margin.
Whats an EV Prius? Do you mean a no-ICE version and when  ???
Even many T's customers ran out of patience and hacked their rides to EV-only modds and an extra battery pack. Whats the hold up?

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2008, 11:22:57 pm »


It would be my normal operating use.


Then why buy an Outlander??  :)


But back to the point....there are no twisties on the 401...LOL.....And you don't buy a Prius to attack the twisties anymore than you buy an M3 for ultimate fuel economy...
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 11:28:03 pm by rrocket »

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2008, 11:24:25 pm »
Whats an EV Prius? Do you mean a no-ICE version and when  ???
Even many T's customers ran out of patience and hacked their rides to EV-only modds and an extra battery pack. Whats the hold up?

No..it's just a plug-in model.  Still has an ICE (like the Volt and others),  As I said...supposed to be out in 2010..

Offline EV Dan

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2008, 11:33:51 pm »
Whats an EV Prius? Do you mean a no-ICE version and when  ???
Even many T's customers ran out of patience and hacked their rides to EV-only modds and an extra battery pack. Whats the hold up?

No..it's just a plug-in model.  Still has an ICE (like the Volt and others),  As I said...supposed to be out in 2010..

Details!  ;) Will it still be a parallel PHEV or a full power motor with high capacity batts + generator?
Linky ?

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2008, 11:39:30 pm »
Oh man...it's been awhile.  They had them operating at the Detroit Auto show.  It might be easier if you just do a Google search.  The cars I saw were early mules.....but they were running models.

Oh...and the next gen Prius is supposed to have Lithium batteries...
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 11:42:01 pm by rrocket »

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2008, 11:46:13 pm »

I love the recent Top Gear feature wherein they drive a Prius around a track for 10 laps followed by an M3.  At the end, the M3 actually achieved better fuel economy.

And what a BS test it was.  Running a Prius flat out around a test track??  Yea..that's EXACTLY the environment the Prius is designed for.  ::) Top Gear lost a bit of my respect after that one....Talk about stacking the deck in the M3's favor...

You're upset that Top Gear's not realistic and not serious automotive journalism?   :rofl: :rofl2:  

Just so we're clear, this is the show where they tested the agility and durability of the Toyota Aygo and the Volkswagen Fox by making them play full-contact soccer with a giant inflatable ball?

And the show where, when instructed by the BBC to feature more green cars, parked a day-glo-green Lambo in the middle of the stage and declared it "the greenest car they could find"?

And the show where they evaluated the relative merits of the British and German auto industries by welding subcompacts to the roofs of luxury cars and putting the steering mechanisms in the subcompacts but the pedals in the luxury cars, and making teams of two race each set?

Top Gear is to cars what The Colbert Report and The Daily Show are to politics.  Not serious journalism.  Entertainment with a light dash of journalism.

Offline EV Dan

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2008, 11:50:30 pm »
"Oh...and the next gen Prius is supposed to have Lithium batteries..."
SWEET! not that I'm curious enough as to lick 'em  ;D

Early mule:


Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2008, 11:59:16 pm »

You're upset that Top Gear's not realistic and not serious automotive journalism?   :rofl: :rofl2:  

No..this episode was made to look like one of their more "serious" episodes. (IMO anyways....wasn't as silly as some of their other shows...)

But yea, Top Gear isn't exactly THE source for good auto journalism...


And as for you, Dan...I'll give ya something to lick........ ;D
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 12:02:39 am by rrocket »

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2008, 12:04:05 am »

It would be my normal operating use.

Then why buy an Outlander??  :)

But back to the point....there are no twisties on the 401...LOL.....And you don't buy a Prius to attack the twisties anymore than you buy an M3 for ultimate fuel economy...

What's the Outlander got to do with it, it's for the missus.  ??? ???

Why are you defending the Prius so much, it's fuel economy is worse than my old Peugeot which was 15 year old French technology.  Yes it's a step in the right direction but it's far from perfect...

And the point of the Top Gear test was to show that going quickly round a twisty road, something like an M3 can do it in a sporty way without using too much fuel.  They were trying to dispell the myth that a car with a big engine is ALWAYS poor on fuel, and they did it in a fun way.

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2008, 12:11:23 am »

It would be my normal operating use.

Then why buy an Outlander??  :)

But back to the point....there are no twisties on the 401...LOL.....And you don't buy a Prius to attack the twisties anymore than you buy an M3 for ultimate fuel economy...

What's the Outlander got to do with it, it's for the missus.  ??? ???

Why are you defending the Prius so much, it's fuel economy is worse than my old Peugeot which was 15 year old French technology.  Yes it's a step in the right direction but it's far from perfect...

And the point of the Top Gear test was to show that going quickly round a twisty road, something like an M3 can do it in a sporty way without using too much fuel.  They were trying to dispell the myth that a car with a big engine is ALWAYS poor on fuel, and they did it in a fun way.

I'm not really defending..I was just correcting someone who made a crazy statement saying the M3 would get the same mileage as a Prius on the highway....

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2008, 12:36:06 am »

You're upset that Top Gear's not realistic and not serious automotive journalism?   :rofl: :rofl2:  

No..this episode was made to look like one of their more "serious" episodes.

You say that, and yet, they were "measuring fuel-economy" by flogging a Prius and a BMW M3 on a racetrack, which clearly can't be serious...

Offline Thinking Out Loud

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Re: 2010 Prius?
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2008, 06:49:01 am »
:rofl:
You're upset that Top Gear's not realistic and not serious automotive journalism?   :rofl: :rofl2:  

No..this episode was made to look like one of their more "serious" episodes. (IMO anyways....wasn't as silly as some of their other shows...)

But yea, Top Gear isn't exactly THE source for good auto journalism...


And as for you, Dan...I'll give ya something to lick........ ;D

I guess the emphasis should have been placed (bolded above). Kinda like when the auto mags do their 'serious' testing in their April editions.......of school buses, garbage trucks..... ;D

Fortune favours the bold!