Author Topic: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept  (Read 8620 times)

Offline EV Dan

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13764
  • Carma: +480/-383
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '21 Venzaurus
You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« on: October 01, 2008, 08:23:11 pm »
"Paris 2008: Officially, official Audi A1 Sportback concept

Posted Oct 1st 2008 at 6:50PM by Sam Abuelsamid

Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, MPG, Audi, Paris Motor Show

Audi A1 Sportback

Audi has released the official details on its new A1 Sportback concept that debuts at the Paris Motor Show. At 13.09 ft long, the A1 is a couple of inches longer than a MINI Clubman and features a hybrid drivetrain. Power comes from a 150 hp TFSI four cylinder with turbocharging and direct injection. The engine's output is blended with the output of a 20 kW, 111 lb-ft electric motor and sent through a 6-speed dual clutch S Tronic transmission. The electric motor is sandwiched between the engine and transmission and can provide electric boost as well as electric only drive at low speeds. The lithium ion battery pack has plug-in capability and is claimed to be able to propel the car for 62 miles in electric only mode. The car can acclerate from 0-100 kph in 7.9 seconds and still get 60.3 mpg (U.S.). Carbon dioxide emissions are a mere 92 g/km.

Gallery: Audi A1 Sportback concept

[Source: Audi]

Compact five-door model with hybrid drive
Audi A1 Sportback concept

At the Paris Motor Show (October 2-10, 2008), Audi is unveiling the
A1 Sportback concept study: following on from the Audi A1 project quattro,
the three-door show car presented in 2007, this is a concept for a five-door
four-seater for the sub-compact class – once again exhibiting all the
characteristics of a genuine Audi. The 3.99-meter long (13.09 ft) and
1.75-meter wide (5.74 ft) vehicle combines cutting-edge, dynamic styling with
optimum economy of space and supreme quality. At the same time, a series of
visionary technical solutions take efficiency, dynamism and motoring
pleasure into new territory as only Audi knows how.

Audi is presenting another version of the innovative hybrid technology in the
drive unit for the A1 Sportback concept. At work under the hood is a 1.4-litre
TFSI engine developing 110 kW (150 hp), whose power is directed to the front
wheels by means of the S tronic dual-clutch transmission. A 20 kW (27 hp)
electric motor integrated in the drive train is able to deliver up to an additional
150 Nm of torque (110.63 lb-ft) when the vehicle is accelerating. During the
boosting phase, i.e. when the TFSI engine and electric motor operate
simultaneously to enable a sporty driving style, the two power packs deliver
impressive propulsion. The tried-and-tested front-wheel drive – supplemented by
the newly developed, ESP-controlled active front differential lock – ensures
optimum transfer of power to the road.

The electric motor is furthermore capable of powering the vehicle alone for zero-
emission driving in residential areas, for instance. The capacity of the lithium-ion
batteries gives the vehicle a range of up to 100 km (62.14 miles) in pure electric
mode; the motor can be recharged from any power socket. The automatic
start/stop facility, energy regeneration and phases of purely electrical operation
reduce the fuel consumption and emissions of the Audi A1 Sportback concept by
almost 30 percent compared to when it is running on the combustion engine
alone. Despite its sporty performance, with acceleration of 0 to 100 km/h
(62.14 mph) in 7.9 seconds and a top speed of 200 km/h (124.27 mph), the Audi
A1 Sportback concept requires only 3.9 liters of premium fuel per 100 km
(60.31 US mpg); CO2 emissions are an efficient 92 g/km (148.06 g/mile)"



Volt, shmolt.. .this thing is capable of pure 100km electric range with a 27hp and 110(!) ft-lb of torque, presumably sufficient for city driving. It seems in hybrid mode (without pre-charging) it achieves a respectable 60mpg. what really is impressive if tomorrow gas suddenly hits 2 bucks a liter, with this baby you won't possibly be able to care less.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 10:06:37 pm by DanYanoff »
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach the man to fish and he wakes you up at 5 in the morning.

Offline EV Dan

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13764
  • Carma: +480/-383
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '21 Venzaurus

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76255
  • Carma: +1254/-7214
    • View Profile
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2008, 08:35:23 pm »
Concepts mean absolutely nothing to me.  Zilch.  They can claim ANYTHING they want in a concept car.....
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline EV Dan

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13764
  • Carma: +480/-383
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '21 Venzaurus
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 08:43:08 pm »
Concepts mean absolutely nothing to me.  Zilch.  They can claim ANYTHING they want in a concept car.....

They provide a fairly thorough set of specs tho, which might mean they already built one and it even runs well. Otherwise how would they claim mileage and performance?

Offline Ice

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1824
  • Carma: +15/-25
  • 2009 Corolla XRS
    • View Profile
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 08:49:49 pm »
Indeed this is all well and good in a concept but lets see what happens when the rubber meets the pavement.  Still I applaud the mix of sportiness and power with fuel efficiency and low emissions.  Who says you can't have your cake and eat it too?

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76255
  • Carma: +1254/-7214
    • View Profile
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 08:53:23 pm »
Otherwise how would they claim mileage and performance?

They have simulators for everything.  EVERYTHING.  Input weight, engine size, gear ratio, tranny ratios, drag, etc....And there you go.


Same thing for electric motors...simulation to give you a rough idea.

Again...looks almost like it could be a running concept...but....these specs and even the cars design can change from concept to proddie unit...

Offline EV Dan

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13764
  • Carma: +480/-383
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '21 Venzaurus
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 08:56:30 pm »
Otherwise how would they claim mileage and performance?

They have simulators for everything.  EVERYTHING.  Input weight, engine size, gear ratio, tranny ratios, drag, etc....And there you go.


Same thing for electric motors...simulation to give you a rough idea.

Again...looks almost like it could be a running concept...but....these specs and even the cars design can change from concept to proddie unit...

I hope they got a price tag simulator too  ;D  and being of German origin it may be more accurate than the 1 used on Volt.

Offline EV Dan

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13764
  • Carma: +480/-383
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '21 Venzaurus
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 09:02:28 pm »
Dan, you must really hate the Volt, dude.

I know I will when I get 1  :rofl2:  (not that there is anything wrong with GM)

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76255
  • Carma: +1254/-7214
    • View Profile
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 09:18:56 pm »
Dan, you must really hate the Volt, dude.

I used to be looking forward to the Volt.  But after seeing the "hopefully $40,000" comments by the execs and the low production numbers, I'm less enthused...

Leviathan

  • Guest
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 09:41:31 pm »
I used to be looking forward to the Volt.  But after seeing the "hopefully $40,000" comments by the execs and the low production numbers, I'm less enthused...

From this recent interview with Robert Kruse GMs executive director of EVs and Hybrids:
Quote from: interview
How many Volts are you aiming towards producing in the first year?
We have not announced a specific number for the first or subsequent years, but I can tell you were not going through all this effort and to this extreme to be a little niche player.

You will see significant and substantial volumes in the first and subsequent years. We see plenty of demand out there.

Which doesn't jive fully with previous announcements. Perhaps GM is becoming more confident that they'll sell as many of them as they can possibly build.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76255
  • Carma: +1254/-7214
    • View Profile
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 09:53:57 pm »
^^^^I'm having my doubts...for 2010 anyways.  They haven't even begun to tool the plant up yet for the Volt.  They are arguing about property taxes with the State of MI...and haven't even decided 100% which plant either...(It's been the topic on Detroit newsradio for a few days now)

Leviathan

  • Guest
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 10:31:20 pm »
^^^^I'm having my doubts...for 2010 anyways.  They haven't even begun to tool the plant up yet for the Volt.  They are arguing about property taxes with the State of MI...and haven't even decided 100% which plant either...(It's been the topic on Detroit newsradio for a few days now)
That interview makes mention that the Detroit-Hamtramck (DHAM) plant is the chosen facility and at the very bottom it says:
Quote
*NOTE: The Detroit city council on Monday approved $136 million in tax abatements that GM had requested in order for them to commit to building the Volt at DHAM.

Edit: crap, rrocket: wanna continue this in a Volt thread?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 10:35:20 pm by Leviathan »

Leviathan

  • Guest
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 11:39:28 pm »
its a concept.    it is great to explore the various possibilities but like the volt not worth while to produce right now.  at least audi understands that this technology is not ready for production.  until the world figures out how to produce energy cleanly over the grid all of these electric cars are simply shifting pollution.  pit mining and burning coal and creating nuclear waste is not of much of an alternative to burning fossil fuels.   if the world is going to move toward clean alternative energies over the grid we will need to keep vehicular energy supply independent of the grid.

I guess you missed it the other times it was posted so here ya go again:

http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/19/chevy-volt-and-the-electric-grid-drive-15000-miles-for-73/
Quote
Furthermore the electric grid has ample capacity to handle this car. In fact Mr. Duvall stated that 10 million E-REVs will use less than 1% of the US electric grids total capacity

Offline Ex-airbalancer

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 40151
  • Carma: +729/-1584
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2011 Silverado 1500 LTZ ext ended cab , 2013 Lexus RX-350 F Sport

Offline EV Dan

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13764
  • Carma: +480/-383
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '21 Venzaurus
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2008, 01:30:08 pm »
hard to beat 3.9/ 100km in an A4 TDI
http://www.canadiandriver.com/thenews/2008/10/01/audi-unveils-tdi-concept-e-in-paris.htm

A1 will require premium, diesel is priced somewhere around that, and with more cars on the road it will become only more expensive, considering limited refinery capacities. I see they claim the same 3.9L mileage, which will prolly be the case on a highway but to compete in real city traffic A1 will have the edge as there'll be zero fuel use in start and stop driving. Even tho the A4 will have some regeneration scheme that motor will not be powerful enough to move the car without diesel assist. Also we dont know how durable a diesel engine is in start/stop regime; from what I heard it is a concern and thats why we dont see any diesel hybrids currently made. Having said all the above its important to understand the claimed mileage will not be the same for everyone. If somebody does 90% highway driving for 150k+ a day diesel A4 is the best bet, but if most NAs drive under 40 miles and most is city traffic then nothing can be more efficient than a plug in vehicle with a powerful motor and a good capacity battery.

P.S. as more hybrids will become plug-in EVs its about time we agreed on a combined MPGxMkW or something similar. Otherwise most ppl will buy based on 3.9L rating not having a clue they may rarely have to stop by the gas station again with the A1.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 01:36:26 pm by DanYanoff »

Offline Ex-airbalancer

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 40151
  • Carma: +729/-1584
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2011 Silverado 1500 LTZ ext ended cab , 2013 Lexus RX-350 F Sport
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2008, 01:44:58 pm »
one concept is just as good has another, until they are on the road
Taser was a good concept, but is it now :think:

Offline EV Dan

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13764
  • Carma: +480/-383
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '21 Venzaurus
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2008, 01:51:46 pm »
Taser was a good concept, but is it now :think:

not after it began to be used to calm down airline passengers  :o  ;)

How about (L/100km + kW/100km)/2 = Mileage ?

Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 46229
  • Carma: +471/-416
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: since the beginning of Saf timeLOTUS ELAN,STANDARD... 10, MG midget, MGB (2),Mazda Millennia,Hyundai Veloster and 1997 Ford Ranger 2014 Subaru Forester XT
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2008, 03:28:55 pm »
....FUR big scary PUSSAYS it is...................... :shuffle:...........
Time is to stop everything happening at once

asam

  • Guest
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2008, 01:32:29 am »
I just love those drl`s

NickZ

  • Guest
Re: You still say diesel is better? - Audi A1 sportback concept
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2008, 07:22:58 am »
the Audi
A1 Sportback concept requires only 3.9 liters of premium fuel per 100 km
(60.31 US mpg); CO2 emissions are an efficient 92 g/km (148.06 g/mile)"



From the European view point assuming that's 3.9litres for highway then it's hardly exciting. Bigger cars get similar mileage. A BMW 320D is almost 50 mpg combined. 4.2litres per 100km highway.  Then you have a stream of super mini diesels with even better mileage.



I'm much more interested in the rumoured 2litred diesel. But then I'm only paying about $1.8 a litre of diesel here.

A hybrid diesel would be interesting. I'm coasting downhill 1/2 the time and going uphill the other half.